Not By Works

[Meggido]

I am not sinless, and I am not going to lie and say I am.

Bro,
I am not sinless either...I still sin, I have never, ever claimed I AM sinless....I claim to be a sin-forgiven saint....that still SINs

What makes one a sinner bro?

Does SIN cause one to be a sinner

-Or-

Is a sinner a condition before Christ?

If we claim to be saved and committing a SIN still makes me sinner, we are worse than any works based self-righteous teacher of the law...a because we put Jesus back on the cross...

You are getting stuck on admitting something that is impossible, and that is to be sinless....nobody was sinless but Jesus....I am trying to show you that you are no longer a sinner, and the word teaches you this....

How can claim you are saved and born again and then out of the other side of your mouth say...and I am still a sinner...

OK, maybe this will help show what I am saying...I am a vet myself so bear with me...and dcon, bear with me as well.

Before Basic training, you were not a soldier, after training you became a soldier, but still had part of the old you and some of your old you habits, but you are still a soldier....you were a soldier for awhile and then retired....despite what people say, you are still a soldier now...when you became a soldier, it became a commitment...life long, until you die, you will be a solder and honored as such...

Before Jesus, you were a sinner, after Jesus you became a saint, that still sins, because you are still a work in progress, but you are still a saint....despite what people say, you are no longer a sinner and cannot go back to being a sinner...when you came to Jesus and became a saint it became a commitment...life long, until you die, you will be a saint and honored as such...

committing Sin is a given, but a SIN does no more define you as a sinner, as being retired from the military makes you a civilian....

 

[dcontroversal]

Neither he was at the temple offer worship to God in accordance with the Old Covenant rules.

He was justified because God was merciful and forgave him because he had a humble and contrite heart,

Where does it state he was at the temple to offer worship?? The context is the Pharisees bragging on how much they do and how righteous they are.......!

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

 

[Ariel82]

Meggido...EG defines anyone who sins as a sinner...while you define a sinner as someone who is in the world and has rejected Jesus. For you a sinner is condemned to hell and thus people should not call themselves sinners because for you it is like us saying the Holy spirit convicts....,the preconceived concept is that "sinner" and "convict" has condemnation of hell attached to both words in your respective minds.

 

[BillG]

Good for you Bill....have you seen me say that I do not go to God thru Jesus and admit my error and sin and seek forgiveness?

Nope not at all. You like me and many others on here do that.

In my experience when I come before God I go through the Lord's Prayer.

I focus on my father, I praise him, as I foucus on him I ask him to search my heart, anything that needs dealing with.
He reveals things to me, when he does I ask for help and thank him for things done wrong that he has forgiven me.

That gives me strength, his strength

 

[Ariel82]

Where does it state he was at the temple to offer worship?? The context is the Pharisees bragging on how much they do and how righteous they are.......!

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

It shows that God accepts the sacrifice of a humble and contrite heart over one filled with pride in self righteous works.

.however it does not mention Jesus or the Cross. Therefore you can't say the sinner was a born again saint.

 

[FranC]

I am not saying the Lord does not address sin.
Prophets are sent to literally speak repent or face judgement.

No, the simple discussion is where are the verses that say God convicts of sin as part
of His ministry.

My point is Gods actual presence brings conviction on people.
Isaiah beheld God and the throne and immediately felt undone.

What impressed me about Jesus is His words convict. They set a standard which is very
different from our own. It convicts so much some find it impossible to read.
They then regard this conviction as something evil, condemnation.

For them the sermon on the mount becomes for legalists and Jews to be convicted of
sin and failure.

But the whole point is, the testimony of the conviction demonstrates how God convicts,
through His word. It is why the distorted theology is created which says the words are
not for believers or else conviction would not occur. It is for those under the law.

One member said they could not understand how one could rejoice at the sermon on the
mount.

So g7's challenge was find verses showing the Holy Spirit convicts of sin.

Now in this context I saw how absurd such a question was. If one has to ask the
question about verses they have missed meeting God.

Listen to Paul

If all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
1 Cor 14:24-25

Where God is there is conviction.

Hey PJ

What do you make of a person who won't even answer a simple question?
I guess it must be too difficult to answer. It's Always those simple questions that cause problems.

So. A while back I DID say that besides reading the bible, it's also a good idea to study some theology. Not that I know much of it. I know just enough to know that I know very little.

But I DO know this:

Each person of the Trinity has their very own job and work to do. This is not gleaned from the bible unless one really studies it for years AND ALREADY HAS THIS CONCEPT IN MIND.

One of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to convict people of sin.
Both unbelievers and believers.

Know why?

Because we CANNOT trust our conscience unless it is properly formed.
Someone here was speaking about conscience. (I think here). It Always makes me laugh a little. How do we know we can trust our conscience? Does everyone have a conscience? Does it tell them the truth? Always?

NO.

This is the reason we need the Holy Spirit to convict of sin.
If anyone is interested, just look up the word Convict in any concordance and you'll have PLENTY of verses.
No problem where g7 is concerned.

Or no problem for the person that thinks one cannot be happy if following the Beatitudes.
I would suppose they feel that no one can be happy following the 10 Commandments either.

These are persons who would like to belong to the Kingdom AND do whatever it is they wish to do.

Can't have both.

Jesus' words certainly are hard to hear.
Who can bear it?
John 6:60 Many left Jesus because of his difficult words.

Staying in the Kingdom requires following its Laws.
Not everyone is willing.

Everyone wants Jesus as Savior.
But not everyone wants Jesus as Lord.

For those who love God, His very presence brings conviction, as you said.
Why...
Because He is pure light and perfection.
And we're soooo lacking....

 

[dcontroversal]

It shows that God accepts the sacrifice of a humble and contrite heart over one filled with pride in self righteous works.

.however it does not mention Jesus or the Cross. Therefore you can't say the sinner was a born again saint.

Jesus said he went away justified.....end of story!

 

[dcontroversal]

Nope not at all. You like me and many others on here do that.

In my experience when I come before God I go through the Lord's Prayer.

I focus on my father, I praise him, as I foucus on him I ask him to search my heart, anything that needs dealing with.
He reveals things to me, when he does I ask for help and thank him for things done wrong that he has forgiven me.

That gives me strength, his strength

I always pray unto the Heavenly Father dia the name of JESUS.....without a ritualistic approach I might add.....

 

[BillG]

No because your mind has not made that paradigm shift although your heart might be seeking a way to be free of the enslavement caused by your sin.

Sorry maybe we have crossed lines here.

I am not talking about me here. And yes concerning me I think I shift paradigms.

My question was in response to Blue Lady.

She talked about repentance and how she repents of her sins(Blue correct me if I am wrong)

So I am trying to bring out if someone repents of doing something wrong but then does it again have they truly repented?

What I'm trying to get at this.

when a person places their faith in Jesus then they have repented of their sin of unbelief.
That being the case they will then acknowledge that things in their life are not Godly.
That being the case they have also repented of that.

A change of mind with a view to change.

That being case we don't need to repent of it anymore.
When we get it wrong we come before God, acknowledge it and ask for help
Repentance in a senses is not stopping doing it.
Willpower if you have it can do stop us doing it, but that's not repentance.

 

[Ariel82]

Repentance involves seeing the world, the desires the world ellicts from you and the lies you have believed in and tossing them out in favor of God,the desires He places in your heart, and His truth and wisdom.

The first act of repentance is that of unbelief but it's not the last act of repentance in a believers life.

God reproved and rebukes us so that we know what we must repent of, the spiritual strongholds we must tear down and the sins we need to learn to overcome,

 

[Meggido]

AMEN.....and still trying to see the difference in the following.......both are equally true....so..........

a sinner saved by grace, but a sin-forgiven saint that still sins...

SINNER is past tense,....saint is present tense...

I am a vet and do this with utmost Vet respect....Once a Marine always a Marine, right? There are no EX Marines, only former Marine's, right?

When you became a Marine, you were no longer a Civilian..Once you became a Marine, your past tense civilian life vanished

You are not a Civilian molded by the Marine's now...you are a Former Marine, that always will be a Marine...present tense

 

[dcontroversal]

SINNER is past tense,....saint is present tense...

I am a vet and do this with utmost Vet respect....Once a Marine always a Marine, right? There are no EX Marines, only former Marine's, right?

When you became a Marine, you were no longer a Civilian..Once you became a Marine, your past tense civilian life vanished

You are not a Civilian molded by the Marine's now...you are a Former Marine, that always will be a Marine...present tense

Remember the first couple of exchanges we had HAHAHAHHA Like Dokken....Bullets to Spare AHAHHAHAHAHHA

 

[Rosemaryx]

Spiritual growth is a process......being transformed by the renewing of the mind through a study of the word...and the application of the word in our lives......as in daily sanctification....

This is where i feel the Holy Spirit is leading me now as i walk with Him...I feel He is letting me know that i now know who i am in Christ, and now i am ready for my next promotion of faith with is the renewing of my mind, i have bought a new writing pad and pen and started today...I feel for the first time that i really will be chewing and not just drinking the Spiritual milk no more, kind of exciting...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

This is where i feel the Holy Spirit is leading me now as i walk with Him...I feel He is letting me know that i now know who i am in Christ, and now i am ready for my next promotion of faith with is the renewing of my mind, i have bought a new writing pad and pen and started today...I feel for the first time that i really will be chewing and not just drinking the Spiritual milk no more, kind of exciting...xox...

I love when I study and have a "light bulb" moment......I love the truth for sure.....and you can feel your spirit feeding on it when you read and study it......surreal for sure...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Amen!! I thank Him for His Grace and Mercy, I thank Him for what He did.

The forgiveness was already granted, I don't need, and I don't think He wants me to continually ask for something that He paid a REALLY high price to give!! "He's like alright already, I already did that move on OY Vey!!" (Just kidding).

But on a serious note, for me to continually go back and request something that has already been given seems too light, almost a denial of trust.

I trust in complete forgiveness now. God I trust you, and rely on you, and I thank you and I love you. Sorry just isn't enough !! I am sorry, but He already understands that.

I don't know, its really tough to put in words, but I know that my God truly loves me, and that He doesn't hold my sin against me, and that He wants to walk with me, and me with Him. Its so amazingly awesome, that if I trap myself in this sin, repent, obey, sin, repent, obey cycle, then I lose sight of who He is and what He has done for me, I condemn myself and drift away from Him. And I do NOT want that anymore.

Does that make ANY sense to anyone??

Yes Limey i have just today come out of that way of thinking myself...Since i been walking with the Lord for nearly two years He has been working on my drinking habit and i have to say the work He has done in me and is doing is amazing He has stopped my binges of alcohol to nearly zero, although the gaps between me drinking have become less and less, a few days ago i had a few but this time i was so sorry to my Lord, and although it has took me these past two days to really getting myself on my feet through Gods word, your last bit of your post is what hit me today and that is what got me standing again, i have had enough of I do NOT want it no more, Praise the LORD the chains are being broken...xox...

 

[oldethennew]

My personal view is we all have a particular struggle that keeps us humbled so as to not be lifted up in pride......my struggle may not be your struggle may not be Ariel's struggle etc........I have areas that I am as strong as I can be in Christ and will NEVER compromise....then I have a few areas that hinder me and cause me to keep my eyes on Christ

===================================================

what a wonderful 'witness' we have here, 'just remember to take it, if you can, from
where you are in your journey right now: oh the future for His Obedient servants, .
who give Him all of the Glory!..

and by the way, as Paul has taught us, from His many examples, 'In Christ, we can
'over-come-anything'.., of course at "HIS TIME"...

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Paradigm shift. Yes I agree with that.

Any chance you can answer my original question?

I gossip today, I gossip tomorrow, I gossip next week. I ask God for help yet at some point I still struggle with gossip.
Have I truly repented?

Only GOD can make that call.GOD looks at the heart and unless GOD tells them ,man can only judge what they see.

Somebody might ask,how can a person be saved and still keep sinning?

The words JESUS spoke were Spirit and Life.The spirits of just men were made perfect and sealed although our flesh was not perfected as of yet here In this world.1/3 of us Is perfect here In this world.

We are GOD's workmanship created IN CHRIST.

IN CHRIST there Is no darkness.

 

[JIMBO43]

What was your username back then?

I dont have to justify my self to you lady people know me by face here as manytimes i came on cam in cc live chat.. i bet not many people in this thread can say the same..

my last username here was quickfire.. AS FOR YOUR MATE DC WHO SAYS IM BUSTED ... perhaps he needs to speak for him self as come to think of it ive never seen dc live in chat or on cam... here 6 years ive known dc and not once has he engage in live chat or come on cam despite my numerous attempts to try to when i was quickfire... if anyone is busted arround here its dc coz everyone is getting wise to his twisted doctrins...

 

[blue_ladybug]

1. I never said you had to justify yourself to me. Or anyone else for that matter. I was simply curious to know your former username, to see if I remembered you or not. So put away the attitude. :/

2. I don't EVER go into the chat rooms. EVER. Unless I need to find a mod. And I don't have a webcam, wouldn't go on cam even if I DID have one..


3. Many people here are forums ONLY people. I am one of them. As far as I know, so is Dcon..

I dont have to justify my self to you lady people know me by face here as manytimes i came on cam in cc live chat.. i bet not many people in this thread can say the same..

my last username here was quickfire.. AS FOR YOUR MATE DC WHO SAYS IM BUSTED ... perhaps he needs to speak for him self as come to think of it ive never seen dc live in chat or on cam... here 6 years ive known dc and not once has he engage in live chat or come on cam despite my numerous attempts to try to when i was quickfire... if anyone is busted arround here its dc coz everyone is getting wise to his twisted doctrins...

 

[Limey410v2]

Yes Limey i have just today come out of that way of thinking myself...Since i been walking with the Lord for nearly two years He has been working on my drinking habit and i have to say the work He has done in me and is doing is amazing He has stopped my binges of alcohol to nearly zero, although the gaps between me drinking have become less and less, a few days ago i had a few but this time i was so sorry to my Lord, and although it has took me these past two days to really getting myself on my feet through Gods word, your last bit of your post is what hit me today and that is what got me standing again, i have had enough of I do NOT want it no more, Praise the LORD the chains are being broken...xox...

Your struggle was my struggle. Alcohol. My prayer is for you to trust God and to trust He will finish what He has started in you. His Love fills the deepest needs of our hearts, especially when we stumble. Find peace and rest in Him Rosemary. He loves you so much.