Not By Works

[PeterJens]

Clearly the Lord wanted the members of the church at Ephesus to repent--to change their minds regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (v 4b). "Repent and do the first works" (v 5b). Works of love no longer characterized the church at Ephesus.

The preceding (vv 2-3) and following (v 6) verses make it clear that this church was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended the Ephesian church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers in the Ephesian church. However, this cannot be a substitute for love."

The question in the verse before us is the identification of the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lampstand if it did not repent?

The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. I don't believe this means that believers will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light-bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city now dominated by Islam. The light of the church seems to have been removed there.

It is interesting to me, sin to a believer is just a change your mind issue, but for an unbeliever
heaven and hell. When people take sin seriously they will understand it is worse for believers because
they know the light. It suggests to me some are not in the light at all.

Why do people want to downplay sin, like it is a nuisance? Is love really that hard to follow???

 

[blue_ladybug]

A more accurate question would be, why do some people pretend that they don't sin, when it's obvious that they do, and the bible proves it?

 

[dcontroversal]

It is interesting to me, sin to a believer is just a change your mind issue, but for an unbeliever
heaven and hell. When people take sin seriously they will understand it is worse for believers because
they know the light. It suggests to me some are not in the light at all.

Why do people want to downplay sin, like it is a nuisance? Is love really that hard to follow???

Because sin is not the issue.....belief into the work of Christ is the issue.....he paid for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.....

Jesus said that when the SPIRIT of truth is come he will convince the world of sin....WHY....BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE NOT ON ME...the issue is faith into Christ NOT SIN which has been PASSED unto ALL men.........

When will you grasp this profound truth and quit elevating SIN above faith and belief into the finished work of CHRIST......???

 

[PeterJens]

I have been told talking about love is wrong and I do not show it.
They say I talk too much about sin, and should talk about righteousness.
Then I should talk about Jesus and not focus on self. Amen.

Jesus is love, victory over sin and walking in righteousness.

Cheap believism says you stay a sinner, assume you are righteous, and you need
to do nothing. Sounds like stupidity to me. Either you are pure or not, made new
by Christ or lost?

 

[Muzungu256]

billG sure if u got an answer to my question hit me up

 

[blue_ladybug]

Here is what my simple (thanks Dcon, lol) mind comprehends about sin: Even after we are saved, we DO still SOMETIMES sin. Whether it's a nasty thought or word or gesture. We may not mean to do it, but it just pops out. That is what forgiveness is for. It's wonderful to be forgiven. If we become totally sinless after being saved, then why the need to stay on the straight and narrow path to keep us out of trouble? Why not just take whatever path we want, since we're now sinless?

Now, here is what my simple mind comprehends about righteousness: there are NONE righteous, not a single one. Those are the words of GOD. I didn't make them up or pluck them out of thin air. We CAN strive to do our absolute best, but as far as being perfectly righteous, well none of us are Jesus and HE is the ONLY one who is righteous. He also is the ONLY one who is absolutely perfect.

 

[BillG]

It is interesting to me, sin to a believer is just a change your mind issue, but for an unbeliever
heaven and hell. When people take sin seriously they will understand it is worse for believers because
they know the light. It suggests to me some are not in the light at all.

Why do people want to downplay sin, like it is a nuisance? Is love really that hard to follow???

Evening PJ

I would say that believers who know they sin actually know light. If they didn't then they are walking in darkness.

Jesus said

John 8:12


12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

I don think most here play down sin but know that at some point they will.

Some will anticipate their sin, is that being truthful or is it setting themselves up?

I would say it is both. It's being honest before God and saying I know what I'm like but if we leave it at that then we are setting ourselves up to sin. But that does not mean we are not in the light.

By being honest we acknowledge that there is darkness in us but the light can drive it out.

With me I sort of say to God.

"Ok today I want to be like you, I know what I am like within myself but you are greater than me and can help me, so I seek the light"

There will be times when we choose not to, our flesh or emotions or experiences not yet dealt with will overcome us.
That being the case Jesus intercedes for us.

Those who walk in darkness do not know Christ and therefore do not know sin. Those who are in Christ know the light and know sin even if they struggle with it.

 

[Limey410v2]

The bible teaches us we are righteous because of Christ, and that God looks at us as washed clean and without blemish. How does He do that in the midst of our sinful flesh? Because Christ died for the FULL and COMPLETE forgiveness of our sins.
It's not about how PJ and crew view sin, it is about how God views sin. So vile and evil that only He could overcome it.
And He did, once and for all on the Cross. Not so that we are to be perfect and sinless as Christ, but so we could be forgiven, so that he is able, in His Holy and perfect Majesty to walk with us. And us with Him, as Adam did before the fall, as a friend. If there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus, why allow those on this forum.to condemn me? Well short answer is they dont.

 

[dcontroversal]

The bible teaches us we are righteous because of Christ, and that God looks at us as washed clean and without blemish. How does He do that in the midst of our sinful flesh? Because Christ died for the FULL and COMPLETE forgiveness of our sins.
It's not about how PJ and crew view sin, it is about how God views sin. So vile and evil that only He could overcome it.
And He did, once and for all on the Cross. Not so that we are to be perfect and sinless as Christ, but so we could be forgiven, so that he is able, in His Holy and perfect Majesty to walk with us. And us with Him, as Adam did before the fall, as a friend.

AMEN for sure.......and I agree 100%

 

[PeterJens]

The bible teaches us we are righteous because of Christ, and that God looks at us as washed clean and without blemish. How does He do that in the midst of our sinful flesh? Because Christ died for the FULL and COMPLETE forgiveness of our sins.
It's not about how PJ and crew view sin, it is about how God views sin. So vile and evil that only He could overcome it.
And He did, once and for all on the Cross. Not so that we are to be perfect and sinless as Christ, but so we could be forgiven, so that he is able, in His Holy and perfect Majesty to walk with us. And us with Him, as Adam did before the fall, as a friend. If there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus, why allow those on this forum.to condemn me? Well short answer is they dont.

Our emphasis and concept of sin is different. If someone comes and hits me with a baseball
bat, that hurts. We do this to people too often in the flesh.

Now I look at Jesus who says here is a different way and I can teach you it. But the way this
means stopping hitting people and loving them instead.

Now it might seem odd to some, but if I am still hitting people, I do not understand the way.
So behaviour shows have we got it, not giving us the reward.

DC said I raised sin above the cross, but only in the view punishment is removed not sinfull
behaviour. I would say these ideas are close, one can lead to consciousness and the other
to legalism, but if we love, never.

 

[gb9]

Our emphasis and concept of sin is different. If someone comes and hits me with a baseball
bat, that hurts. We do this to people too often in the flesh.

Now I look at Jesus who says here is a different way and I can teach you it. But the way this
means stopping hitting people and loving them instead.

Now it might seem odd to some, but if I am still hitting people, I do not understand the way.
So behaviour shows have we got it, not giving us the reward.

DC said I raised sin above the cross, but only in the view punishment is removed not sinfull
behaviour. I would say these ideas are close, one can lead to consciousness and the other
to legalism, but if we love, never.

see here is a big flaw in your theology- it seems that everything to you is ideas, concepts, thoughts, etc.. you do not seem to have much value in hard facts.

like for example, using the full Biblical definition of sin, which is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. you in the past have defined sin as " going against God's commands " which is true, but not a complete definition.

 

[stonesoffire]

I have been told talking about love is wrong and I do not show it.
They say I talk too much about sin, and should talk about righteousness.
Then I should talk about Jesus and not focus on self. Amen.

Jesus is love, victory over sin and walking in righteousness.

Cheap believism says you stay a sinner, assume you are righteous, and you need
to do nothing. Sounds like stupidity to me. Either you are pure or not, made new
by Christ or lost?

Imputeth...learneth what that meaneth...

 

[LoveGodForever]

What is sin?

Sin is not believing or doing what God asks us to do. If God asks us to do something and we do not do it then it is sin because we are not believing God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin because sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death. (Rom 14:23, 1John 3:4, Rom 6:23)

 

[stonesoffire]

Sin is what we are. Flesh is our fallen nature. So "naturally" we will do what we are. But! In Christ...we have a resurrected lifed spirit, that then needs to teach if you will, our mind and our soul what we have become and are becoming.

This is super natural...a new created genesis of a race of Spiritual beings not been so since Adam and Eve.

Do you see PJ? If you see...then enter.

 

[dcontroversal]

Here is what my simple (thanks Dcon, lol) mind comprehends about sin: Even after we are saved, we DO still SOMETIMES sin. Whether it's a nasty thought or word or gesture. We may not mean to do it, but it just pops out. That is what forgiveness is for. It's wonderful to be forgiven. If we become totally sinless after being saved, then why the need to stay on the straight and narrow path to keep us out of trouble? Why not just take whatever path we want, since we're now sinless?

Now, here is what my simple mind comprehends about righteousness: there are NONE righteous, not a single one. Those are the words of GOD. I didn't make them up or pluck them out of thin air. We CAN strive to do our absolute best, but as far as being perfectly righteous, well none of us are Jesus and HE is the ONLY one who is righteous. He also is the ONLY one who is absolutely perfect.

Amen Blue......keep firing truth..............

 

[dcontroversal]

What is sin?

Sin is not believing or doing what God asks us to do. If God asks us to do something and we do not do it then it is sin because we are not believing God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin because sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death. (Rom 14:23, 1John 3:4, Rom 6:23)

Does God ask or command....last time I checked you favor the commandments......??

 

[dcontroversal]

The bible teaches we are to contend for the system of teaching found in the word....pay particular attention to the word contend.....it seems if you make a stand on truth you are walking in darkness according to SOME in CC........

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

ἐπαγωνίζεσθαι-->1864 epagōnízomai (from 1909 /epí, "focused on" and 73 /agṓn, "a contest, competition") – properly, to contend (literally, "struggle upon, appropriately"), i.e. with skill and commitment in opposing whatever is not of faith (God's persuasion).

 

[LoveGodForever]

Sin is what we are. Flesh is our fallen nature. So "naturally" we will do what we are. But! In Christ...we have a resurrected lifed spirit, that then needs to teach if you will, our mind and our soul what we have become and are becoming.

This is super natural...a new created genesis of a race of Spiritual beings not been so since Adam and Eve.

Do you see PJ? If you see...then enter.

Hi Stoneoffire,

We are not sin. Sin is the breaking of God's Law (1John 3:4) Jesus came to save us from our sins as we have faith in His Words (1John 5:4; John 8:31-36)

God bless

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul told the church at Ephesus to Armor UP and take the sword out and make a stand for the truth.....today if you stand for the truth you are labeled by those who name Christ but make no real stand for the truth....

 

[LoveGodForever]

Does God ask or command....last time I checked you favor the commandments......??

Hi DCON nice to see you again

God's Word says what it says..

What is sin?

Sin is not believing or not doing what God asks us to do. If God asks us to do something and we do not do it then it is sin because we are not believing God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin because sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death. (Rom 14:23, 1John 3:4, Rom 6:23)