Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hi DCON nice to see you again
God's Word says what it says..
What is sin?
Sin is not believing or not doing what God asks us to do. If God asks us to do something and we do not do it then it is sin because we are not believing God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin because sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death. (Rom 14:23, 1John 3:4, Rom 6:23)
Unfortunately the poster you responded to ultimate goal is to tell us that we are sinning and dis-obeying God because we don't observe the Sabbath rest or day as in from Friday night to Saturday as outlined in the Old Testament.
I and a number of others have been in discussion with him in the "Sabbath" thread.
Of course we know that Christ Himself is our true Sabbath rest and all in the Old testament was a shadow or a type of the real substance of things which is Christ Himself .
He has a website dedicated to saying that we that do not observe the Sabbath as in from Friday to Saturday and instead worship the Lord on Sunday - we are receiving the mark of the beast. He used to have the web address in his signature until someone told him he wasn't allowed to have the advertising being done.
People are free in Christ to observe any day as they like but when they say we are sinning and did-obeying God by not following like it was in the Old testament - that is a perversion of the gospel.
This is a very clear example of a Judaizing spirit that is come to nullify the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to. Paul said that he didn't stand for this for even one hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the Galatians.
I am born of God and baptized in Spirit too. A Son in the making.
But, we see differently. Why is this?
Was there not an exchange at the Cross? Did He not put to death our sin nature? Born of His now?
It does take time for our soul and our mind to catch up with truth, I'll agree with you here. But, it 's a done deal within our spirit. When He said it's finished...it's finished...the work of the enemy in mankind is overthrown...what we were is dead, and we are raised in newness of life.
We don't follow laws of control because the new man is not lawless. There are Kingdom laws that we follow....and I have yet to see what they all are.
A new road for me to travel. These are laws however, of what is of our faith and what happens with faiths declaration.
The Kingdom of heaven is greater than the earthly laws that were given to men. And there is where we walk from.
Understand?
But, we see differently. Why is this?
Was there not an exchange at the Cross? Did He not put to death our sin nature? Born of His now?
It does take time for our soul and our mind to catch up with truth, I'll agree with you here. But, it 's a done deal within our spirit. When He said it's finished...it's finished...the work of the enemy in mankind is overthrown...what we were is dead, and we are raised in newness of life.
We don't follow laws of control because the new man is not lawless. There are Kingdom laws that we follow....and I have yet to see what they all are.
A new road for me to travel. These are laws however, of what is of our faith and what happens with faiths declaration.
The Kingdom of heaven is greater than the earthly laws that were given to men. And there is where we walk from.
Understand?
I agree. The more we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ - the less outward sinning will happen but it is "by the spirit" that we put to death the "deeds of the body".
I see this "crucify the flesh" subject differently. The truth ( in my mind ) is that those that belong to Christ or in other words have Christ in them - have crucified the flesh. already when they came to Christ and Christ came in them.
Galatians 5:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
have crucified = this is in the aorist indicative which is a one time event in the past that is completed.
I believe this is talking about the circumcision of the flesh from the inner man which is in Christ. Col. 2:11
This is where it is also called the circumcision of the heart or also called the circumcision of Christ where we ( the new creation in Christ created in righteousness and holiness ) are "cut away" from the flesh.
Walking by the spirit ( which is simply living from who we are in Christ ) will put to death the deeds of the body.
I have seen this truth operate in my own life. I have had things "dog" me for decades but once the Lord showed me this truth - those sins of the flesh dropped off me effortlessly as I just was beholding the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
I believe the answer for all of us in the Lord is learning how to walk by the spirit of which a part is - learning to rest in the righteousness of Another and in this - the life of Another is released in and through us and we find ourselves doing deeds of righteousness unconsciously because we are just responding from our hearts.
According to the law - sinning would also be not stoning those that don't keep the Sabbath as outlined in the law.
We know that discussing this is useless with you and I invite anyone to the Sabbath thread to see the truth of people trying to bring us under the Old Testament ways again.
As usual you have taken scripture out of context. As far we this willfully sinning part hat has been taken out of context - this is a great opportunity to help others that are duped by this type of using the scripture.
Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.
Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.
Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.
Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.
Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.
Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.
The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.
This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9
There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.
There is always an issue with free loaders who claim it is all so easy.
If it is all Jesus, why do few find it, why is the way narrow, why are we yoked,
why do we die with Christ, lose our life here, to be like Jesus.
Paul is our example to follow as he followed Christ. I see no calls from the other
side to do anything but rest in idleness. Look to Jesus, but not to purity, love or
righteousness, which is odd as Christ is all of this and it is our calling.
Jesus said wisdom is living like the sermon on the mount, but easy folk say
that was false sarcasm to drive us to rest and idleness. Ever hear the enemy
say doing nothing is the best option? No. Oops, maybe you are not listening
to Gods word, work in season and out of season, amen, glory to Christ and
the cross.
If it is all Jesus, why do few find it, why is the way narrow, why are we yoked,
why do we die with Christ, lose our life here, to be like Jesus.
Paul is our example to follow as he followed Christ. I see no calls from the other
side to do anything but rest in idleness. Look to Jesus, but not to purity, love or
righteousness, which is odd as Christ is all of this and it is our calling.
Jesus said wisdom is living like the sermon on the mount, but easy folk say
that was false sarcasm to drive us to rest and idleness. Ever hear the enemy
say doing nothing is the best option? No. Oops, maybe you are not listening
to Gods word, work in season and out of season, amen, glory to Christ and
the cross.
God's Word is plain see and for all to know. Jesus is the light that shines in darkness. But men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil (sin). There is no stumbling blocks to the Word of God and the plan of salvation; just the interpretation of God's Word that allows a person to live a life of sin.
A sinner is before conversion a sin-forgiven saint, that will still sin is after conversion...we are not perfect after conversion but we can no longer claim title to sinner, but sin-forgiven saint, blessed, righteous, faithful, but will still SIN.
Jesus showed us this in the Gospels and Paul and other nN writers did as well.
This distinction is also found in the OT, particularly in Job, Proverbs, the Psalms and Ecclesiastes. Those books of wisdom defined the condition either as:
The wicked/sinner/scoffers/lazy/fool/chaff
-OR-
The blessed/righteous/faithful/tree
Psalm 1 sets this distinction in the first Psalm of the first books of Palms. Psalm is like Mark 4.13 when Jesus said if you do not understand the meaning of this parable how will you know the meaning of all the parables. If you do not understand Psalm 1 how will you understand the other Psalms.
Psalm 1
Title: The Righteous and the Wicked Contrasted.
How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
Nor stand in the path of sinners,
Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The wicked are not so,
But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the wicked will perish.
Jesus showed us this in the Gospels and Paul and other nN writers did as well.
This distinction is also found in the OT, particularly in Job, Proverbs, the Psalms and Ecclesiastes. Those books of wisdom defined the condition either as:
The wicked/sinner/scoffers/lazy/fool/chaff
-OR-
The blessed/righteous/faithful/tree
Psalm 1 sets this distinction in the first Psalm of the first books of Palms. Psalm is like Mark 4.13 when Jesus said if you do not understand the meaning of this parable how will you know the meaning of all the parables. If you do not understand Psalm 1 how will you understand the other Psalms.
Psalm 1
Title: The Righteous and the Wicked Contrasted.
How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
Nor stand in the path of sinners,
Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The wicked are not so,
But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the wicked will perish.
AMEN....there is about 50 different topics covered in this thread and a multitude of posted scripture....there have been many good discussions and a few arguments I agree, but over all many wonderful truths posted here....why would ANY child of God be against posting scripture, dialogue and a little argument or two over belief......
Z
This bottom half belief is equivalent with the servant who buried his talent. Nothing in him told him to make sure what he chose to do with what he'd been given would please his master. You blanket love and God is a King. Revelations also state that names will be blotted out. Hebrews is for all even tho it was written to Hebrews.. nice try but using that same idea we could nullify all the epistles as none were directly written to us today.. but were to carry on for perpetual generations