That would make two that don't understand then, wouldn't it ? The one praying (you) ... and the enemy. But didn't Paul exhort all to pray with understanding also ? If praying in "today's version of tongues" is to be desired and beneficial, what does that render to our prayers expressed with our understanding also ? The entirety of this subject and practice is completely lacking in sound biblical understanding. Our Father knows our every thought and need before we ask Him. Living and praying in the Spirit simply means having one's heart, thoughts and mind focused and resting in Jesus Christ. Quit trying to "outsmart" the enemy and simply trust in God and His Word.
Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues
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That would make two that don't understand then, wouldn't it ? The one praying (you) ... and the enemy. But didn't Paul exhort all to pray with understanding also ? If praying in "today's version of tongues" is to be desired and beneficial, what does that render to our prayers expressed with our understanding also ? The entirety of this subject and practice is completely lacking in sound biblical understanding. Our Father knows our every thought and need before we ask Him. Living and praying in the Spirit simply means having one's heart, thoughts and mind focused and resting in Jesus Christ. Quit trying to "outsmart" the enemy and simply trust in God and His Word.
Thats would let out every child of God who is not speaking in tongues! To be in agreement with our Father is not the matter of speaking in tongues! ItS the matter of trust him and doing his will! To claim that every Christian has the ability to speak in tongues in the way it's is taught from pentecostals and charismatics is a lie.
No. Roger tries to act all holy and everything, but he has not (yet) actually presented a scriptural case against speaking in tongues. At least not that I have seen.
People's unbelief might drive me away, though... It's almost an exercise in futility, trying to convince those whose minds are made up.
Morning, Wolf...
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
23) If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
^^ indicates that all Christians CAN speak in tongues.
1 Cor 12:
7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
More like it is hypothetical. Verse 5 says I would not ye shall all. Verse 23 says if therefore not when therefore. Is accuracy important when reading the scriptures?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The bolded part on this we agree.
I hope you feel better about disparaging my character and integrity in regard to holiness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes. God would like all Christians to speak in tongues.
It is very important. The church is NOT to all come together and speak in tongues at once. That's the overall point Paul is making in 1 Cor 14.
How do you feel when you accuse those of us who speak in tongues of "not knowing how to pray", "abusing prayer", and "frivolity"?
Questions are questions not accusations. You imply the accusation through the question. I heard an old evangelist say one time that when you chuck a stone into a pack of dogs the one that yelps is the one that got hit. Works that way with the word of God. I yelp when it steps on my toes.
Prayer is a sacred and holy thing not given to pretense.
Luke 18: 9 ¶ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
And yet tongues are a sign gift and signs are for Jews not Gentiles. Tongues are a historical sign of judgment to Israel. Gentiles seek wisdom not signs.
Really?
For the cause of Chrisst
Roger
Hi Shrume, that's what I want to tell you the whole time. If you claim that 1. Cor 14, 5 is a reality then also 1. Cor.7, 7 must be a reality. Because in both verses Paul said: I would like. You have to treat both verses in the same way. But you do not. 14, 5 you take as a reality and 7,7 as a wish. So you cant make serious exegese. This is eisegese
And the same way of interprete the scripture I see in almost all Pentecost and charismatic teachings.
What is your point? You directly accused me of "not knowing how to pray", "abusing prayer", and "frivolity".
Agreed!
Again, what is your point?
Speaking in tongues is not a "sign gift". It is one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Tongues are a sign to unbelievers. If an unbeliever is in a meeting where tongues are being spoken and interpreted (decently and in order..), it should be a sign to him, and pique his interest.
Yes. Please read it. Paul spends several verses discussing the proper use of tongues in the church.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Who are the unbelievers to whom Paul is referring? Your bible should reveal this to you.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
How would you determine the proper use of tongues? Are tongues languages or ecstatic utterances? Are tongues in the ears of the hearers or in the tongue of the speaker?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you say so but I would not discount the possibility that the Holy Spirit is convicting you about your attitude toward prayer..
Praying to oneself in the sense praying without understanding of seems in contradiction of the purpose of prayer. Jesus taught the apostles and disciples to pray but never anything about tongues or prayer apart from knowledge. Jesus prayed till He sweated drops of blood but not with tongues.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
They Speak With Other Tongues; John Sherrill John and Elizabeth Sherrill, Chosen Books Publishers; co-authors of Gods Smuggler; The Hiding Place; and The Cross and The Switchblade.
In interviews, the answers given.
What's the use of speaking in tongues? The only way I can answer that is to say, What's the us of a bluebird? What is the use of a sunset? Just sheer, unmitigated uplift, just joy unspeakable and with it health, peace and rest and release from burdens and tensions. Pa. housewife
"Oftentimes, very often in fact, I have to get my night's sleep sitting up in a Greyhound bus or on a jet plane. I don't recommend it as a substitute for a good mattress. But, I have a secret: the minute I close my eyes I begin to pray in the Spirit. I pray all night that way, waking up and drifting back to sleep, always praying. I don't get much sleep, but I get a lot of rest. The next morning I'm fresh and strong and ready for a full days work." David du Plessis, Pentecostal minister.
A good reference if you really want to understand why tongues and what benefits.
If one's heart is pure and truly seeking to know...God will move. But, if just trying to disprove? You are casting shadow on Holy Spirits work in the earth.
In interviews, the answers given.
What's the use of speaking in tongues? The only way I can answer that is to say, What's the us of a bluebird? What is the use of a sunset? Just sheer, unmitigated uplift, just joy unspeakable and with it health, peace and rest and release from burdens and tensions. Pa. housewife
"Oftentimes, very often in fact, I have to get my night's sleep sitting up in a Greyhound bus or on a jet plane. I don't recommend it as a substitute for a good mattress. But, I have a secret: the minute I close my eyes I begin to pray in the Spirit. I pray all night that way, waking up and drifting back to sleep, always praying. I don't get much sleep, but I get a lot of rest. The next morning I'm fresh and strong and ready for a full days work." David du Plessis, Pentecostal minister.
A good reference if you really want to understand why tongues and what benefits.
If one's heart is pure and truly seeking to know...God will move. But, if just trying to disprove? You are casting shadow on Holy Spirits work in the earth.
Roger
You don't know whether Jesus prayed in tongues or not. It's already recorded that other words were used twice. And they were interpreted.
He's our example and I have no doubt.
You don't know whether Jesus prayed in tongues or not. It's already recorded that other words were used twice. And they were interpreted.
He's our example and I have no doubt.
Yes, the manifestation of speaking in tongues is a sign to those who believe not.
But for Christians who speak in tongues, it edifies them, it is praising God, it is giving thanks well, it is praying in the spirit. If you need the scripture, let me know.
There are both Jew and gentile unbelievers. Tongues can be a sign of the power of God to ANY unbeliever.
This has been discussed many times. See previous posts, and read 1 Cor 14.
They are languages.
99+ % of the time, neither the speaker or those with him understand the tongue. That's why it needs to be interpreted when spoken in public.
If I say so? Are you denying it? Want me to provide a link to the post, Roger?
My attitude toward prayer is just fine, thank you. I pray a lot, both in English and by speaking in tongues.
Please read 1 Cor 14
That's right. It was not possible to speak in tongues before the day of Pentecost.
That's right. It was not possible to speak in tongues before the day of Pentecost.
Apparently you disapprove of Paul, who spoke in tongues more than the entire Corinthian church.