Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Yes, I did share what the works are that accompany salvation.
Here it is again:

Hebrews 6:9-12 NASB
...beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Love for others, particularly for the body of Christ, is the signature of the faith that saves all by itself apart from works. This is not a sappy, feel good kind of love that feels and speaks but does not act. John tells us to love with actual deeds and from a sincere love, not love just in words:

1 John 3:14-15,18 NASB
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
18Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19We will know by this that we are of the truth...

Jesus himself said our love for one another shows us to be his disciples:

John 13:35 NASB
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

We can see from these passages that love, especially love for the brethren, must accompany salvation. The obedience of love is the signifying mark of the saved person. Not because the work of love makes them saved, but because saved people have the love of God in them--a sincere love that acts. They have to have that love in them or they simply do not belong to him. They have not passed from death to life yet (see above--1 John 3:14). As Paul says, the love that justifies (all by itself apart from works) is the faith that loves (Galatians 5:6 NASB).

I do believe that love acc9meanies a mature believer in Christ.

However I don't believe it's an automatic thing but something the Holy spirit teaches us.

2 Peter 1 says to add to our faith virtue..then add to virtue, knowledge....to knowledge self control..then perservance., then godliness.., then brotherly kindness and finally love.

People talk about love as if it's easy, but love is not easy..not the kind of love God gives. The kind of love that can forgive your enemies and pray for their salvation and for God to bless and forgive them for tormenting you.

Agape love is supernatural and can only be experienced by actions of Holy spirit filled children of God through His guidance and not truly explained with words.

Love is more than words. Just as being a,child of God is more than works.

 

[Ariel82]

Anyway I wanted to dedicate this song to Jumbo and Rosemary....love you both and for some reason, it seems right..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8BBCYFAYRI

 

[UnderGrace]

What is unbelief?

Can you be more specific?

How does it stop eternal life from being eternal?

I agree. The disobedient, sinning, struggling, but believing child of God will continue to be a child of God.
It is your willful unbelief that will cause you to no longer be a child of God.

 

[PennEd]

I agree. The disobedient, sinning, struggling, but believing child of God will continue to be a child of God.
It is your willful unbelief that will cause you to no longer be a child of God.

So let me get this straight. You hear THE Gospel. God gives you the faith to believe: Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift from God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. You accept Jesus and are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

God gives you the faith, then seals you, and then takes away your belief in Jesus? YOU are able to break the seal that God has put on you?

Have you really thought this through and prayed on it?

 

[dcontroversal]

What is unbelief?

Can you be more specific?

How does it stop eternal life from being eternal?

AMEN.....one word describes the view that salvation can be forfeit....poppycock.....

Jesus is the BEGINNER and FINISHER of our faith and will FINISH that GOOD WORK he began in us.....

Those who say salvation can be lost or forfeit<----they serve a weak JESUS that is not the Jesus of the bible....My JESUS promises to FINISH what he started and he will NEVER leave me nor forsake me........he will leave the 99 to come find me if I wander too far.........!!

 

[Meggido]

No, the word said "hang all the law and prophets", They hang on those two commands,

if we could love perfectly, we would fulfill the law and prophets, We can not, because we can not love perfectly. We still war with the flesh.

I see this verse meaning that the Law and the prophets foretold that Love for God and Others is the greatest commandment....Paul confirms this meaning in Romans 13.8-10...

All the prophets spoke of God's love for the people, the law showed us how to love others but not do things against them....covet, kill, steal....Jesus fulfilled both perfectly....

This is perfect love and not something hard to attain, Paul again refuted some kind of war with the flesh regarding perfect love in Romans 13.8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[Desertsrose]

Originally Posted by Sully

Bottom line up front. You have to wilfully run from basic gospel and epistle truth (these get paid to type, copy paste prewritten b$) to hold up works of any sort as a supplement to the stand alone truth of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone truth.





Personally I find this hard to believe. Who would pay someone to come in to a Christian forum to talk about works for salvation in order to cause strife and division?

I think it's just a by-product of having bad teaching from our church traditions and we think we are "defending the faith" but in reality we could just be "defending our church teachings and traditions". When our "sacred cows" have a knife to their throat - the "fur can fly" in our defense of these.

I know I did the very same thing - I believed things with all my mind because of my church teachings and would "defend them" but the Lord has showed me the difference when He revealed the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work.

To me it was like "getting born-again - again". I have heard this very same thing from many that have seen the glorious light of what Christ has already done for us in His finished work.

The true gospel message of the grace of God in Christ's work is a wonderful walk of never ending astonishment of what the Lord has done for us. We have a great salvation in Him!

Hi Grace,
I also find it hard to believe and we should never believe anything like this when it's simply gossip. How about that, we agree again.

When we approach others who are holding to teachings that may be in error, should we call them sacred cows when that would incite them?

Wouldn't it be better to show them scriptures and then pray for God to enlighten them? Amen, when we consider what the Lord has done, I can find words that are adequate to describe all He's done.

I heard on the radio today about a guy who thought he was saved. He started taking classes at Moody via the internet to prepare him to become a pastor and had a heart attack. Soon afterwards he contracted some type of cancer and had to go through chemo treatments.

During all of this process he realized he wasn't saved. He's older in age, but I didn't catch how old. He mentioned that his wife and daughter began to see a change in him. Where he was cussed, he stopped, when he could care less about others, he began to really want to help people. God was definitely doing a change in him.

This is an example of a person being saved by grace through faith. Afterwards as God works in him to change him we begin to see fruit. We see a total change and and now he wants to please God, now he wants to obey Him.

We can all probably identify with this man. Once we could have cared less about God, but when we were born again, a total change took place within our hearts and we began to desire the things of the Lord...... to please Him and desire to do what He wants us to do.

I love hearing stories of God taking a sinner, entering His life and changing him from the inside out through the powerful message of the cross. What a mighty God we serve!!!

 

[royalscot]

.29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.Romans 11

 

[PHart]

What is unbelief?

Can you be more specific?

Unbelief is not trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins for justification.

How does it stop eternal life from being eternal?

It doesn't.
Unbelief doesn't stop eternal life from being eternal.
It keeps you from possessing the life that is eternal.

 

[Meggido]

EG

I say this with love and compassion. I warred this way too with my flesh. And I grew tired plus unsuccessful. Just reckon it dead...daily. Declare it is dead for we are dead to sin and alive to God.

This is what Paul found too...when we concentrate on a battle...we will have a battle. Just stop and die with His Word for you.

We are resurrected with Him now. Walk in His life.

spot on 100% correct here....once people understand and really get this, they stop the internal battle...

Satan wants people to think there is war of 2 natures, which is why Romans 7 is often and largely taught completely wrong....this is why I have told EG he is not a sinner saved by grace, he is a sin-forgiven saint, that will still sin, but a new creation....alive to God....dead to sin....this part is often lost on many, because it is nearly to Good to be true part of the Gospel....and many do not teach it, becauseit seems to endorse works based salvation, but it does no such thing....this is what I call being stranded at the cross and not understanding that the old you died on that cross as well....

What you described was sin-consciousness teaching and it is a lie from hell. It's only premise is that you will fight a battle between your 2 natures daily and there is no remedy....its just that way until the Day of the Lord.....this is not at all taught in the Bible...Romans 6, 7 and 8 are so misunderstood....

 

[dcontroversal]

spot on 100% correct here....once people understand and really get this, they stop the internal battle...

Satan wants people to think there is war of 2 natures, which is why Romans 7 is often and largely taught completely wrong....this is why I have told EG he is not a sinner saved by grace, he is a sin-forgiven saint, that will still sin, but a new creation....alive to God....dead to sin....this part is often lost on many, because it is nearly to Good to be true part of the Gospel....and many do not teach it, becauseit seems to endorse works based salvation, but it does no such thing....this is what I call being stranded at the cross and not understanding that the old you died on that cross as well....

What you described was sin-consciousness teaching and it is a lie from hell. It's only premise is that you will fight a battle between your 2 natures daily and there is no remedy....its just that way until the Day of the Lord.....this is not at all taught in the Bible...Romans 6, 7 and 8 are so misunderstood....

Jesus was also equally clear....

The spirit is indeed willing, but the FLESH IS WEAK

 

[Meggido]

Believe it or not....I am old school.....the worship of God is the preaching and teaching of the word....as a matter of fact we only see the disciples singing ONE song in assembly capacity worship (after the Lord's Supper) I always say...JESUS sat the people down and taught them the word....unfortunately many churches today have turned the worship of God into an entertainment money gathering operation....I have told people in my class if you want entertainment go buy a movie ticket....we are here to worship God and the fields to work in are out those doors......

good stuff, was not pointing towards anyone in particular with my statements...sorry if it seemed that way...

 

[royalscot]

Hi Grace,
I also find it hard to believe and we should never believe anything like this when it's simply gossip. How about that, we agree again.

When we approach others who are holding to teachings that may be in error, should we call them sacred cows when that would incite them?

Wouldn't it be better to show them scriptures and then pray for God to enlighten them? Amen, when we consider what the Lord has done, I can find words that are adequate to describe all He's done.

I heard on the radio today about a guy who thought he was saved. He started taking classes at Moody via the internet to prepare him to become a pastor and had a heart attack. Soon afterwards he contracted some type of cancer and had to go through chemo treatments.

During all of this process he realized he wasn't saved. He's older in age, but I didn't catch how old. He mentioned that his wife and daughter began to see a change in him. Where he was cussed, he stopped, when he could care less about others, he began to really want to help people. God was definitely doing a change in him.

This is an example of a person being saved by grace through faith. Afterwards as God works in him to change him we begin to see fruit. We see a total change and and now he wants to please God, now he wants to obey Him.

We can all probably identify with this man. Once we could have cared less about God, but when we were born again, a total change took place within our hearts and we began to desire the things of the Lord...... to please Him and desire to do what He wants us to do.

I love hearing stories of God taking a sinner, entering His life and changing him from the inside out through the powerful message of the cross. What a mighty God we serve!!!

if gentiles, do not have a law, what law are they to repent from.

14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.Romans 2: God's Righteous Judgment

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free

 

[Meggido]

Here is the only works that matter;

John 6:28-29;
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent.” Bible Hub

This is given and an elementary doctrine according to Paul....Hebrews 6.1-3

 

[royalscot]

Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5: Peace with God Through Faith

 

[dcontroversal]

good stuff, was not pointing towards anyone in particular with my statements...sorry if it seemed that way...

No offence was just making a point and did not take it that way at all...

 

[Sully]

Here's the problem.

Instead of being insulting to persons, you should engage them in conversation.

Now see? Every key stroke you make from here on must be totally insult free. That's how this works based pseudo doctrine works. Good luck, and we'll be watching.

 

[Meggido]

We,may know them by their fruits. God knows them by their hearts,

The Bible also says that.

What is their fruit? it is their disciples.....looking at their disciples can speak volumes about their heart condition...

 

[Sully]

My friend. I am not here to guarantee anything.
I do not work on guarantees, .

must be the result of a shift change. COulda swore you made guarantees.....

 

[dcontroversal]

What is their fruit? it is their disciples.....looking at their disciples can speak volumes about their heart condition...

A cup of cold water in the name of Jesus or a disciple HAH