Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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If you see Christ desires you walk like Him in love, amen.

If this is far off from your heart, ask the Lord to anoint you with the Holy Spirit, and you will.
We are called to live Holy, pure lives, but it appears not for all.

For those who say compromise is ok, where in scripture is this or is it just they feel defeated
and not forgiven and empowered though Jesus says they are!!!!
Not sure If any genuine believer would say it's ok to compromise.
If that's the case and they fall they will just see defeat and no hope If they truly do not know that Jesus loves them so much.
They know not that God loves them as much as he loves Jesus.

If we don't know the true love of God then we cannot walk in it or trust him.

Truth is though as you say

"If this is far from your heart, ask the Lord to anoint you with the Holy Spirit, and you will"

Love is not a feeling it's an act of ones will.

The perfect love of God casts out fear, when fear reduces, love increases.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
how do you know we dont ponder ?... are yousaying your pondering is more worthy than our pondering ?...


it looks like your perfected here... are you sure your not the perfected worker.. ?
Worthy is the Lamb
 
Mar 7, 2016
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TODAY I HAVE LEAREND THAT PONDERING PAYS...

meanings when i ponder and way up the possabilities i get ideas that help me achieve good sales at the proper rate.. which IS 50 percent..
 
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willybob

Guest
Paul warned of vain humanistic philosophy being imposed upon the text in contrast with contextual sound reasoning along with the examination of scripture, therefore rightly dividing the word of truth within in the whole council of God…( Paul said he brings both the goodness and severity of God). Note: The habitual nature of the flesh seeks to entertain the goodness of God while ignoring the severity, not focusing on the fact that God is angry with the wicked every day, and His wrath abides upon the children of disobedience.

A textual proper rule is to never use unclear verses, figurative, symbolic, or expressive language, such as found in the Psalms, Prophets, or Revelation to establish a literalized doctrine. And most importantly never search the scriptures for verses that might appear to make provisions for the flesh, hence forcing the forgone conclusion of sin upon the text . But rather use the repetitive and consistent clear verses to define unclear verses, thus searching the scriptures without guile.

Doctrine must be gained through the full weight of scripture, and not by picking and choosing a few here and there out of context in an attempt to undermine the sound logical reasoning of God’s word (the Logos), in that all scripture must be harmonized and weighed against scripture line upon line, and precept upon precept, lest we become like the spiritual drunkards of Ephraim who failed to do this while establishing a covenant with death and hell. Knowing this first; if it is pleasing to the flesh and the lusts thereof, then it cannot be of God, but rather an attempt to reconcile godliness wirth worldliness to be great gain.

God has hidden His truth in plain sight, but only those who love the truth, and are diligently seeking Him will find it. Those that hold to the vain traditions of men (the old wine), will never find it, and the truth becomes offensive and a stumbling block in their path because the old wine skins burst and cannot hold the new wine of the Covenant, therefore receiving grace in vain as the new wine spills out all over the ground.

I have come to the conclusion over the years that people can make the scriptures say just about anything they desire, especially when it comes to pleasing the lusts of the eyes, the lusts of the flesh, and the pride of life…..

In closing I would like to present what Jesus said to the rich young ruler, also descriptive of the flesh kings who’s god is their belly…Why didn’t Jesus just tell him to hang in there, because I’m going to do all that for you, so just trust in my finished works and besides you can’t do anything anyway because all your works is just filthy rags. It would have been the perfect opportunity to do so, yes? But know Jesus didn’t say that. He said in so many words that you still covet and that here is what you can do about it, and then pick up your cross and follow me..Quite different than the easy grace gospel that’s so popular today, yes?

Be good Bereans and examine the text so you won’t be fooled by the plethora of false prophets masquerading as angels of light……..be blessed and happy hunting
 
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Mar 7, 2016
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the bible is a prophecy of the son who will come and not bow down to the super powers that be... it will be a great war first...which is yet to come..
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I was listening to "It is well with my soul" by Matt Redman earlier. Will post the link to it.

Part of the song is

It is well (it is well)
With my soul (with my soul)
It is well, it is well with my soul
I trust Your ways (I trust Your ways)
I trust Your name (I trust Your name)
And it is well, it is well with my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul, my soul

What really gets me is this

"I trust your ways"
"I trust you name"

And I think to myself "Wow how often do I not trust this?

If we trust in his ways then we will truly walk in his ways.
If we truly trust his name then we would know we are his children. His name is Abba Father and we are his.

Its all about trusting in him and his ways.

When we fall we look to him, when we fear we look to him, when we worry we look to him, when battles come we look to him.
As we trust in his name and our adoption and in his ways then we become more like him.

He has adopted us into his family and we are his children. It is he who helps us, conforms us to image. Teaches us right from wrong, picks us up when we fall and heals the grazes on our knees and elbows.

Its our Father that asks us to trust in him and not the other way around.

This side of eternity we will never be like him 100% but as we trust in him then the % will increase.

When we trust in him it will be well with our souls.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dKi7dePvoK0
 
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Sully

Guest
My Utmost for His Highest- by Oswald Chambers- July 23rd exert~
Sanctification
"Of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us...sanctification." 1Cor 1:30

The Life Side.
The mystery of sanctification is that the perfections of Jesus Christ are imparted to me, not gradually, but instantly when by faith I enter the realization that Jesus Christ is made unto me sanctification. Sanctification does not mean anything less than the holiness of Jesus being made mine manifestly.
The one marvellous secret of a holy life lies not in imitating Jesus, but in letting the perfections of Jesus manifest themselves in my mortal flesh. Sanctification is "Christ in you." It is His wonderful life that is imparted to me in sanctification, and imparted by faith as a sovereign gift of God's grace. Am I willing for God to make sanctification as real in me as it is in His word?
Sanctification means the impartation of the Holy qualities of Jesus Christ. It is His patience, His love, His holiness, His faith, His purity, His godliness, that is manifested in and through every sanctified soul. Sanctification is not drawing from Jesus the power to be holy; it is drawing from Jesus the holiness that was manifested in Him, and He manifests it in me. Sanctification is an impartation, not an imitation. Imitation is on a different line. In Jesus Christ is the perfection of everything, and the mystery of sanctification is that all the perfections of Jesus are at my disposal, and slowly and surely I begin to live a life of ineffable order and sanity and holiness: "Kept by the power of God."
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,349
113
My Utmost for His Highest- by Oswald Chambers- July 23rd exert~
Sanctification
"Of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us...sanctification." 1Cor 1:30

The Life Side.
The mystery of sanctification is that the perfections of Jesus Christ are imparted to me, not gradually, but instantly when by faith I enter the realization that Jesus Christ is made unto me sanctification. Sanctification does not mean anything less than the holiness of Jesus being made mine manifestly.
The one marvellous secret of a holy life lies not in imitating Jesus, but in letting the perfections of Jesus manifest themselves in my mortal flesh. Sanctification is "Christ in you." It is His wonderful life that is imparted to me in sanctification, and imparted by faith as a sovereign gift of God's grace. Am I willing for God to make sanctification as real in me as it is in His word?
Sanctification means the impartation of the Holy qualities of Jesus Christ. It is His patience, His love, His holiness, His faith, His purity, His godliness, that is manifested in and through every sanctified soul. Sanctification is not drawing from Jesus the power to be holy; it is drawing from Jesus the holiness that was manifested in Him, and He manifests it in me. Sanctification is an impartation, not an imitation. Imitation is on a different line. In Jesus Christ is the perfection of everything, and the mystery of sanctification is that all the perfections of Jesus are at my disposal, and slowly and surely I begin to live a life of ineffable order and sanity and holiness: "Kept by the power of God."
I love Oswald Chambers "My upmost for his Highest"

Its very challenging and thought provoking.

If anyone here hasn't got it then get it.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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On the subject of apostates. Many claim that these are true believers that lose their salvation. This might be how the world defines it, but the biblical definition is more accurate. The book of Jude confirms in V19 that these are men who don't have the Spirit, so they're not believers.

Jude...

"Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Old and New Apostates


But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.


These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”


These (apostates) are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved (believers), remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.


But you, beloved (believers), building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.
To be able to "judge" a falling away is mans desire.

Folks want to define it and put it a fishbowl so they can show someone else or themselves what it "looks" like to fall away.

Its funny, because then they can compare themselves to that individual, and measure their success, and righteousness based on another humans failing.

Yet Christ measures us righteous by what He accomplished.

So thankfully my worth comes from Him, not from those watching the fishbowl in which I reside.
 
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willybob

Guest
Hi willybob,

Please correct me if I am wrong but I get the impression that anyone who does not necessarily agree with you theologically you assume that they just sin all the time, have no regard to their sin, enjoy it.

Your post above indicates they don't care about their sin and have no regard to what Jesus has done for them.

As I said please correct me if I am wrong.
no sir I didn't assume that, but rather that is what they say about themselves....They number themselves among the wicked, professing that they are just sinners saved by grace, coupled with we all sin everyday in thought word and deed, therefore we are not perfect but just forgiven....So by this do they condemn themselves, for the devil cant do worse than sinning every day in thought, word, and deed..and of course they never distinguish between the vile sins of the flesh that will send one to hell, and sins of ignorance, mistakes, flaws in humanity being subject to vanity by the Devine wisdom of the Creator, therefore not being perfect in knowledge and free from ignorance such as Job was....so one can only assume maybe they are speaking about the wicked sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from inheriting the kingdom..They seem to imply that one can just stumble into, adultery, gossip, false witness, murder,etc. and find and easy forgiveness, while still being under God's grace and mercy having the assurance of salvation,..Note: this wasn't the case with king David... he went through a long season of bitter sorrow in repentance(Psalms32 & 51), and the remainder of his last 20 years were in ruination in the natural, as Gods' hand of protection was removed from his house hold. By the evil influence of his sin did his sons became divided seeking to kill each other along with all the other koas that crept in because of the surrounding effects of David's iniquity..In fact its consequences in part led to the complete division and wars between the tribes some 40 years later.....be blessed, and happy hunting
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I COOULDNT AGREE MORE............... HOWEVER why did Jesus say oh father why have you forsaken me... surely this was a sin to deny God.

how does God deny God??

Jesus quoted, in a loud voice, the opening stanza of "The Hind of the Morning" - the psalm that is paired with Psalm 23. this prophetic Psalm was being fulfilled - but who was actually separated from God in the psalm? and in Psalm 23, which directly follows? are Psalms 21-23 ordered together by accident? is Christ speaking about Himself?
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Are you saying the Father forsook His Son because His Son denied Him?


I COOULDNT AGREE MORE............... HOWEVER why did Jesus say oh father why have you forsaken me... surely this was a sin to deny God.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
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It's like striving to obtain what we already possess. It's impossible to do so.
In fact by striving to obtain what we already possess, we fall short of trust, and of belief and of truly accepting what has been given.

We place the onus back on ourselves and our ability, instead of where it rightfully belongs. In the hands and on the shoulders of the only one that can truly and successfully bare it.

That seems to be a turning away of sorts.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
My son, My son, why are you striving
You can't add one thing to what's been done for you
I did it all while I was dying
Rest in your faith, my peace will come to you


Keith Green (1977)


In fact by striving to obtain what we already possess, we fall short of trust, and of belief and of truly accepting what has been given.

We place the onus back on ourselves and our ability, instead of where it rightfully belongs. In the hands and on the shoulders of the only one that can truly and successfully bare it.

That seems to be a turning away of sorts.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
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no sir I didn't assume that, but rather that is what they say about themselves....They number themselves among the wicked, professing that they are just sinners saved by grace, coupled with we all sin everyday in thought word and deed, therefore we are not perfect but just forgiven....So by this do they condemn themselves, for the devil cant do worse than sinning every day in thought, word, and deed..and of course they never distinguish between the vile sins of the flesh that will send one to hell, and sins of ignorance, mistakes, flaws in humanity being subject to vanity by the Devine wisdom of the Creator, therefore not being perfect in knowledge and free from ignorance such as Job was....so one can only assume maybe they are speaking about the wicked sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from inheriting the kingdom..They seem to imply that one can just stumble into, adultery, gossip, false witness, murder,etc. and find and easy forgiveness, while still being under God's grace and mercy having the assurance of salvation,..Note: this wasn't the case with king David... he went through a long season of bitter sorrow in repentance(Psalms32 & 51), and the remainder of his last 20 years were in ruination in the natural, as Gods' hand of protection was removed from his house hold. By the evil influence of his sin did his he sons became divided seeking to kill each other along with all the other koas that crept in because of the surrounding effects of David's iniquity..In fact its consequences in part led to the complete division and wars between the tribes some 40 years later.....be blessed, and happy hunting
ooh don't call be sir, Bill is fine:)

I am not getting at you but trying to get a handle on you and where you are coming from.

To me a person who has placed their faith in Jesus, a genuine faith and admits that they do sin, whether it be in thought word and deed do not number themselves with the wicked.

If they did then they would not acknowledge that they have sinned. The wicked do not do that.

I am reading from the abode that you are saying that if they say that they sin then they are no better than the devil, so you seem to be saying they are children of the devil and not God.

You always seem to focus on the sins of the flesh, but what about the sins of the heart?
Jesus said look at someone with lust then you have comittte adultery but that person has not comitted the physical act. So it that person going to hell along with the one who has comitted the physical act?

Yes David went through periods of repentance and in fact look at his story he probably spent most of his life doing that given all the stuff he did.

Under the the law he should have been put to death.

But God said He is a man after my own heart, that was the case for the whole of David's life.

When David took the census and God was angry he gave him three choices of punishment,.

David chose the 3rd choice.

As a result 70,000 people were killed over 3 days. He could have chosen 3 months from fleeing before his enemies.

But no David said let 70,000 people die for my sin.

That was way after he committed adultery and had Bathsheba's husband killed.

Yes sin does have consequence.

But if David who was under the law but his sin was to be exacted by death yet God still considered him a man after his own heart
how much more so does God consider us people after his own heart when the punishment of sin was exacted on Jesus?

Please don't assume that when people acknowledge that they sin but when they do then they are aligned with the devil.

They are we are believers after the heart of God.

The vile sins of the flesh as such are not the problem, the problem is why?
To me the vile sins of the flesh are the issue. You quoted them above.

Can you honestly say that you have not comitted any one them?

Can you honestly say that you don't have to guard yourself against any one of them?

If so and then have fallen foul are you aligned with the devil?

As a child God whilst you beat your flesh but what's in your heart, have you overcome that?

Sir Bill:cool:
 
Apr 30, 2016
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<<<<<<I mean this....

Jesus asked 3 men to dig a 7x7x7 rectangular hole with him...

The first man grabbed his shovel and began digging alone...he dug and dug and finally his body gave up, his hands were bloody and rubbed raw and he climbed out of a 2 foot round hole and stopped and walked away...


The 2nd man began digging alone...after bit of time, he asked Jesus to direct his efforts and Jesus told the man what to do.....the man put on a pair of work gloves and continued asking Jesus for direction....this man finally stopped as well...tired, exhausted...and he jumped out of a 4 foot round hole and walked away...

The 3rd man looked at Jesus and handed him another shovel and also asked for direction.....in 15 minutes Both Jesus and the 3rd man finished working....and holding each others hands they jumped out of a perfectly excavated 7x7x7 rectangular hole....


The 1st man worked for Jesus

The 2nd man worked with Jesus

The 3rd man worked UNTO Jesus.
So since you do everything UNTO Jesus, you must surely do everything PERFECTLY, as in your demonstration using these three guys (when we have Jesus available to us...)

So, apparently you're one of these people who NEVER SIN because Jesus is right there with you digging away at that hole...

You're one lucky dude.

And Jesus does this for everyone who agrees with you?

So there are Others on this thread THAT NEVER SIN or work for anything?

Here's what JESUS said:

"If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me".
Luke 9.23

"For whever is ashamed of Me and MY WORDS, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His glory"...
Luke 9:26


Jesus is saying that one has to deny himself, pick up his cross daily to follow Jesus.
FOLLOW means that there is a LEADER. Jesus is that leader. Jesus is saying not to try to get away from hard times.

Jesus is saying that self.sacrifice is the way to getting away from yourself to get to Jesus.
Because he continues with the idea of LOSING one's soul, by NOT self-sacrificing.

Do not be ashamed of Jesus' words.
Jesus left us with many teachings that we are to follow.

Maybe we should all find out what they are?
 
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Sully

Guest
You seem to sprint headlong with your assumptions. Just an observation, not everything is as linear as you see it.