Not By Works

[royalscot]

The 10 commandments including the keeping of the Sabbath day as outlined in it are in the law of Moses

( Which no one really keeps the Sabbath as they are constantly breaking the Sabbath because they need to be stoning people that don't keep it )

Paul said that "coveting" was in the law unless "coveting" got kicked out of the 10 for getting caught "coveting".
Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

The reason why law-keepers try to separate out the law of Moses is so that they can try to deceive Christians into believing that they are sinning and dis-obeying God by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way. It is called Judaizing.

sorry to step on your toe. (political correctness is not stamping out religion, it trying to stamp out, only one way, to know a god.)

the rhema(the now word from god ,directs to you the believer) in and by truth, (ie holy spirit , or vision, prayer life, bible study.etc )include bible truth.
the logus is the written word , ie the bible. and any fool can read it, without direction from god through jesus, then they have no god.( 3.16 john). so there faith and works are nill and void , according to the new covenant.

if they are still failing an old covenant ,and still following an old covenant, and because of condemnation from law, they cannot define ,spiritual truth, because they are cut off, and the law will condemn them every day of there life.

this is pauls point in this verse, the point, you cannot say, saved by grace a gift, then return to condemnation of the law , by doing so, your put jesus back on the cross, if your doing that, then its is like saying jesus was not on earth, to bring grace on behalf of gods word.(let your will be done) second point , some people read the bible and teach the bible , in unis, schools, etc that are not believers in god. but have studded the logus word, .(the bible)

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace

 

[UnderGrace]

I think it is has something to do with grace by the way it is used in his writing?

Must be, since anything or anyone some disagree with is attributed to gog.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your straw an that anyone here is teaching one can claim to have faith, be saved, and do nothing is getting old, and does not excuse you for your works based theology,

true repentance which leads to true salvation changes lives, period, no where in scripture does it say it may change lives or it may not,

why you doubt it may, and in turn need to insert your works added to the cross to "maybe" be saved is on you my friend, I want nothing to do with it. It is not from God.

 

[Magenta]

I think it is has something to do with grace by the way it is used in his writing?

Grace of God, like it is a bad thing...

 

[followjesus]

It is not sin that causes us to lose salvation in the sense that we can repent of it,and it is off our record.

It is holding unto sin that will cause us to lose out on salvation.

If they wilfully sin,hold unto sin,and not give it up,the sacrifice of Jesus cannot wash that sin away,for they are keeping it.

If they believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,who told them they were sealed unto the day of redemption,for it seems like it is they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And that is they never come to the truth that sin does affect their relationship with Jesus,and they are lovers of pleasures,more than lovers of God,and neglect the poor and needy with them going by their wants,which the love of God does not dwell in them.

They hold unto sin,and love money,and material things,and worldlines,and neglect the poor and needy,but think they are still right with God.

So who told them they were sealed unto the day of redemption.

Anybody that says they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,they will hold unto sin,and the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away,and there are millions of people who live according to the flesh enjoying this world,but think they are right with God.

It is not sin that will cause us to lose salvation in the sense we can be forgiven for it,and be right.

It is holding unto sin,and believing we are still right with God,that can cause us to lose salvation.

And there are millions of people that do that.

If a person says they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,where do people think they place.

So who told them they were sealed unto the day of redemption,when those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,awake to righteousness,and sin not,which Paul said some do not have the knowledge of God,and that is to their shame,and do not depart from the living God,by the deceitfulness of sin.

If they spend money on their wants,and not only their needs,and neglect the poor and needy,the love of God does not dwell in them.

Love is the fulfilling of the law,but love does not think an evil thought,and does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth.

If they hold unto sin they have erred from the truth,are a sinner,and have to be converted,and their soul is not in a position of being saved.

yeah repoentance is what gets rid of sin, you cant believe that sin is no biggy or wont affect your relationship with God, God doesnt dwell in unholy places. He cant if God came to live in a sinner He would Kill them, sin cannot have any relationship with God. Jesus sacrifice is eternal, but Just like the Laws sacrifice the people came and repented they didnt just sacrifice thier animal and go away thinking well i can sin now ill just sacrifice anoither animal next time. Jesus covers any sin that we repent of doing when we do that they are cast away into the deepest sea never to be remembered again. but if we continue on commiting them theyre never forgiven and those are the things we will have to answer for those things we refuse to let go of even Knowing they are sin.

Sin is 100 percent satans will for mankind, God cannot have a relationship with sin He is opposite sin He is Holy. He has already given Jesus to suffering and death in order to fill us with His Own spirit, the spirit of the Powerful mighty and well able Holy God is with us thats all we need to repent and live right lives. this isnt to say we dont mess up or even fall into sin when we do that sacrifice is still the same if we repent that too is cast away and not remembered. repentance is essential for christians the idea that faith negates repentance and righteousness is a farce. we are able already through Jesus and his Gospel.

He told us everything we need to Know, and then He died, was raised to Life and was seated at Gods right Hand where He sent the spirit. were already fully euipped when we call on Him

2 peter 1:3-11 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


its foolishness to omit all the things just like this that the Bible teaches and claim a few plucked verses of unconditional salvation trump everything else. i bet you if it was a book that was proven to work, on How to get 1,000,000 dollars from the government every single word would be believed and acted upon. qithout argument or debate, actually i guarantee it would be followed to the letter if they believed it would work. But when your talking about eternal Life, naw just those few lines that tell us we dont need to participate or change anything apply. its Just what it is either a person Loves Jesus, and obeys Him, or they dont and refuse to obey Him. thats not my take But God the Fathers word about it ( john 14:15-24)

cant make people see what they refuse to see though. i think ive said all i have to say on this matter. fact is the Bible is right and theres no reason to omit the things we dont wanna hear or our doctrine disagrees with because the Bible has it right every time.

 

[Grace777x70]

Right. We continue to be a new creation by what we believe, not by what we do. Ours works simply prove we are still believing in Christ. Which is the same believing we started to have when we first got saved. It's not new believing. It's a continued believing that began when we first believed--continued believing that keeps the one-time sacrifice of Christ, which is always on the altar in heaven, and Christ the High Priest who lives forevermore, interceding on our behalf. Stop believing and you no longer have that sacrifice and ministry 'remaining' to deal with your sin (Hebrews 10:26). You have nothing left but to look forward to the wrath that only faith in Christ can rescue you from.




It's not a works earned salvation. You just keep hearing it that way. Really.

You only know what you've been taught, and you, like so many Christians, are simply incapable of understanding any thought about works in salvation outside of your own. Been there, done that. I know what I'm talking about. It's called 'indoctrination'. One of the signs of spiritual maturity is to be able to consider thought outside of your own thinking, believing, and experiences. It starts by knowing that we have to go with what the Bible says, not what even theologically schooled, respected leaders are telling us. That's a big leap for most Christians, but it's one you're going to have to make. You have to be a Berean without predetermined doctrines guiding your Bible reading to discern spiritual truth. Learning does not equate to spiritual truth, unbiased and impartial HONESTY does. That means being willing to acknowledge when a respected leader in the church teaches something that does not jibe with what you have read for yourself in the Bible.



And what did John ALSO say about 'His commandments'?
He said the person who says he knows God but does not keep His commandments IS A LIAR.

"4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4 NASB)

That makes works necessary in salvation. Not as the way to earn salvation, as you seem to only be able to hear what works in salvation means, but as the obligatory and natural outcome of one who has had the old man crucified in his most inner part.

I would be shocked if you STILL disagree with this and continue to assign what I'm saying to a 'works earn salvation' argument.

Can you stop being a human because in "your mind" you believe you are not one now? Can you stop being a son to your father because in your mind you don't believe you are not a son for some strange reason? Of course not. We are born -again fro above - that which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh.

When you say that "works are necessary for salvation" and an "obligatory" thing - that is a works-based salvationists view that is not the gospel. I totally dis-agree with you and every other attempt anyone makes to add works unto salvation and if we don't do some kind of works - our Father throws us into hell and the lake of fire. That is the outcome of this "lose your salvation" doctrine. It's 100% total religious nonsense.

I do agree that the proper teaching of us being crucified with Christ and raised to newness of life will produce good fruit but that doesn't mean that if a Christian doesn't know that and is a baby Christian or taught religious nonsesnse then they will never grow up. Works-based believers would condemn this one as going to hell. It's an anti-Christ belief system.

Heb. 10:26 is talking to Jewish readers who heard the "knowledge" of Jesus but instead were relying on the temple sacrifices for their sins. That's why there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit would convict/convince the world of sin - of sin because the "do not believe on Me". That is why they are insulting the Spirit of grace in Heb. 10:27 and treating the blood of Jesus as a common thing - no better than a lamb that can be bought for the priest to sacrifice for them.

The willful sinning is the rejection of Christ's sacrifice for sins - not some work of the flesh..

This whole lose your salvation nonsense is a product of not knowing the Father for who He really is nor understanding the new creation in Christ - nor understanding the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Grace of God, like it is a bad thing...

to the worker it is a bad thing,
Grace says their works are meaningless and will never save them.

 

[Ariel82]

Is it odd that the temptation of an instruction of how to get a million dollars from the government isnt really that tempting? I would rather read the Bible or listen to gospel music.

 

[royalscot]

We create works BECAUSE we are continuing in the righteousness we received when we first believed

Abiding in Christ is characterized by a life of ever increasing holiness. If you do not have that life, yet you claim to be in Christ, John says you are a liar. The person who does not have a characteristically righteous life was either never born again to begin with, or they stopped believing somewhere along the line. Either way, works are the evidence of whether or not you really became a new person in salvation when you confessed Christ and whether you are continuing to be a new person by the Holy Spirit in a continuing salvation.

People who don't have the walk, even just a little, to match the talk have a faith that can not save them on the Day of Judgment. They either never had that faith, or they lost it somewhere along the line:

"3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:3-4 NASB)

"14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14 NASB)

Church, stop letting the church give you false comfort in a works-less salvation. Do what the Bible says. Make your calling and election sure--start acting like what you say you are. If you can't do that, then be born again for real this time.

Galatians 3: By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.


before your very eyes, you read in the bible, jesus was publicly crucified.

yet still, have problems, with other parts of the bible and its interpretation.

 

[Grace777x70]

2 Corinthians 1:21 HCSB - "He has also sealed us and given us the Spirit as a down payment in our hearts."
The word "guarantee" is a misnomer. "Earnest" money or a down payment is valid only if conditions continue to be met. If conditions don't continue to be met, the deal's off.

Colossians 1:21-23:
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel.

It's conditional!!!!

Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....the word "since" is a better way to describe this usage when it is used with "ge".

Ei is combined with "ge" which means " in fact and indeed"

1479. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]εἰ [FONT="Gentium" !important]ei[/FONT] conj

If, since.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Delta-Epsilon.


It is called "a condition of the first class"..... Colossians 1:23 is a prime example:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).

Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar



Here is an example....you are going to the bank..and I say to you.... "If" you are going to be at the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...you will have the $100 bucks you owe me.

I'll take a check too...[/FONT]

 

[UnderGrace]

Now that you say it that way, it all, and I mean all..... makes sense.

to the worker it is a bad thing,
Grace says their works are meaningless and will never save them.

 

[royalscot]

Your straw an that anyone here is teaching one can claim to have faith, be saved, and do nothing is getting old, and does not excuse you for your works based theology,

true repentance which leads to true salvation changes lives, period, no where in scripture does it say it may change lives or it may not,

why you doubt it may, and in turn need to insert your works added to the cross to "maybe" be saved is on you my friend, I want nothing to do with it. It is not from God.

being found in want, is not the problem of a lie.

it only exposes, them that believe a lie.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Stephen, I will gladly humble myself. Whether I am right or whether I am wrong on various issues like the ones discussed here is completely secondary to the fact that YOU are my brother in Christ. You trust in the Blood of Jesus Christ to wash away your sin. As do I, AND Bruce. So I love you both Stephen. Further, I think you are right in saying that Bruce's posts have taken a slightly harsher tone of late. Frankly, I'm surprised it has taken this long for his patience to wear thin, when day after day he is verbally assaulted and demeaned by many here.

For a year and a half he has displayed the kind of love and patience I pray to God to attain.

But think Stephen of the power YOU possess! Just imagine if you were to display love and grace to those that you disagree with on issues here. YOU have the power to change the whole attitude and direction of the BDF.

Actually every ONE of us here has that power. But to show others that the love of Christ burns in you, I'd implore you as your brother in Him to use that power!

May God Bless you and your family.

Hi PennEd,

I agree with most of what you have said above in general. However, it seems to me that you are applying your message one way (Stephen). Personally for me I have not been at this forum all that long so I do not know everyone as well as you so please forgive me if you feel what I am saying is out of line here.

All I see as an observer is Stephen sharing His belief in God's Word and sticking up for people that do not reply slander for slander. The Word of God clearly says by their fruits you will know them.

You wrote your message above for Stephen because he has been calling Grace777 out for some of the things that he has been saying in slandering others. You apply your message to Stephen, yet you defend Grace777 saying that he is tired and his patience is run out as if he has an excuse for his behavior. Maybe it was before my time but I have never seen anyone here slander Grace777 or attack him personally? Forgive me but it seems that what your saying above should be the message for all and not just one person here. Just my thoughts.

Gal 5:22-23,
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law

John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Rom 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1Jo 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death.

1Jo 4:7-8,
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

1Jo 4:19-21
We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar: for he that loves not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loves God love his brother also.

1John 5:2-3
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Co 13:12-13,
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is LOVE.

Love you all.

God bless.

 

[followjesus]

Is it "gog" doctrine to believe that Jesus is God?

FYI..,i have no issues with the doctrine of repent and obey.

Just wondering about this "gog doctrine" spoken of.

Also who exactly are people obeying?

If Jesus isn't God, then who exactly are you obeying?

Does the Bible say the same thing if you don't accept Jesus as God?

show me the verse that says that anyone needs to say Jesus is God. even show me that phrase " Jesus is God" you will not find that phrase, but a 100 times obver you will find " Jesus is the Christ, the SON of the Living God." Like i told magenta, sure Jesus is God, in the same way that you are your Father.

can i ask you this - do you believe that God has a one and only begotten Son? if you do then whats the issue? God is the Father of Jesus Christ, Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ. He is One with God by the spirit of God just like your parents spirit is in you. Jesus was with God in God part of God Himself, when Jesus was born of Mary He then is the Son of God. in that way sure He is God but do people see you and call you your Father? the Son of God is Jesus thats Our Lord and Savior.

so do you believe that God sent His only begotten Son to be the Savior of the World? or does God not Have a Son named Jesus? and Does Jesus not Have a God who is His Own Father? and in Whos name do we Believe? considering this

1 John 5: 9-12 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."


Jesus baptism.


matthew 3:16-17 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Jesus transfigured


mark 9:2-7 " There He was transfigured before them.And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. ( Notice 3 witnesses of this on earth, peter James and john. and 3 witnesses in Heaven God, elijah and moses. ) then remember this


peters confirmation of Gods voice speaking this.
2 peter 1:17-18 "For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount


the witness of the Son of God


mark 14:61-62 "But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven"


John 10:36 "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"


John 3:35 "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."




the witness of the holy spirit, according to paul


romans 1:1-4 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead"


the witness of the spirit according to John


1 john 5:5-6 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." see the witness in us (1 john 5:9-12)


the witness of the apostles


Peters witness and Jesus it is blessed and comes from God.


matthew 16:16-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven


the entire purpose of Johns Gospel


john 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."


Pauls witness to who He preached as Jesus


2 corinthians 1:19 "For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.


the witnes of Hebrews


Hebrews 1:2-4 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."


1 peter 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead"


the witness 2 more disciples


martha


john 11:27 "She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.


The ethiopien at His baptism


acts 8:37 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."


the Son of God is worshipped.
matthew 14:33 "Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.


before you say im denying Jesus divinity lol no He is divine because He came out from God. but ive Given you plenty to understand Jesus is the Son of God. here you Have God, Jesus, the Holy spirit apostles various others saying plainly Jesus is the Christ and Son of God. so now you tell me is Jesus The Son of God, the Christ? and also ill wait for that 1 scripture that says the phrase " Jesus is God" again though He is God in the same way you are your Father and are one by spirit with Him.

 

[Stephen63]

Ed often displays the love of God.

What he displays is a soft form of communication loaded with psychological abilities to play mind games with me, but more so with the readers.

Since he sounds soft & compassionate, he plays the harpstrings of the readers to believe his story.

After all, such a compassionate writer can't be wrong, can he?

People are easily fooled when they see a compassionate form of godliness. That's how the televangelists prey on their victims.

They are very good at their craft.

They are also witness & evidence that it can be done.

 

[Grace777x70]

All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.

They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. Good works are an example of this.

We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested. The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate" to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being.

In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved and they go to hell - such as this false doctrine of losing your salvation - Christ alone is our Savior.

The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.

All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.

This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.

The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him. Without Him - we can do nothing.

We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ. Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory.

 

[royalscot]

That is a good illustration concerning the engagement ring,for they are not married yet,and not a guarantee that they will get married,seeing they could have a fallen out,and not be compatible anymore,and call off the wedding.

Or if someone puts something on credit,fails to pay along the way,the item will go back to the owner.

Someone gets probation,does not comply along the way,goes to jail.

If people in deals like that do not continue in what they started,the whole thing is called off,and null and void.

The Bible says the same thing.

Jesus said,any person having out their hand to the plough,looking back,is not fit for the kingdom of God.

Which there is only one way to interpret this.If any person starts living for God wanting to represent goodness,and abstain from worldliness,but looks back to that lifestyle admiring it,and wanting it,is not fit for the kingdom of God.

Which is why the Bible says if any person does not continue in the goodness of God,will be cut off.

When we confess our sins,and do not want sin anymore,but to represent goodness,and be Christlike,and receive the Spirit,if we do not continue in that calling,and lifestyle,then it is called off,and their salvation becomes null and void.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

the problem with read as wrote, and the problem with interpretation of dream , they both, have different meanings.

sin condemns you. yet you say repent,

that the problem with interpretation, with free will, your free to have an opinion.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thank God for eternal security.....

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


Uttermost

pantelés: all complete, entire​

Original Word: παντελής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pantelés
Phonetic Spelling: (pan-tel-ace')
Short Definition: complete, forever, entirely
Definition: complete, entire, perfect, through all time.

 

[PHart]

Have you ever heard that no one wins the "what if" game......?

I don't know what that has to do with the point you brought up about the 'if' in Matthew 4:6, but here, I checked it out. The 'if' is the 'if' of certainty, not perchance: "not "if perchance," but marking a correspondence in point of fact" (From the Vine's link on this site: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1487&t=KJV)

 

[royalscot]

if your set free, what are you set free from.

for example

a jewish belief system, at the time of jesus life, put jesus on the cross.

a man made religion system , controlled by humans was never god s goal.