Not By Works
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W
We seem to have a problem with our poster here. Abiding isn't a position. It's what we choose to do if we want to remain in Christ. I'm not saying we do that by ourselves, but we're empowered by the Holy Spirit to do so.
So far, G777 hasn't shown any evidence to prove his "position" theory.
How can he claim someone said Jesus is a liar?
Here's what he's talking about, & it's obvious he hates it..... but displayed no scripture at all to dispute it.
This scripture tells plainly that we live because we're attached to Jesus, the true vine.
Being "thrown away" plainly means to be separated from Christ. No Christ, no life.
Being thrown in the fire means thrown into Hell. Again, it's plain.
Bearing fruit is mandatory. Those bearing fruit are empowered to bear more. This shows the christian is expected to grow & mature spiritually, bearing more fruit as they grow.
This scripture is much more important than these others quoted above. Here's why:
1. Jesus taught it. That makes it absolute truth.
2. Jesus teaches Abiding in its completeness. No pieces, or one-verse wonders.
3. It teaches the truth about fruit bearing. It states fruitfulness is mandatory & what happens when you do & what happens if you don't.
4. It leaves no room for twisting its symbolism nor its message. That's why false teachers won't use it.
5. It states plainly that obedience is the fruit & proves we're abiding in Him.
6. It proves we glorify God by bearing much fruit, & in doing this, prove to the world we're Christ's disciples.
7. It locks in the meaning to properly interpret other teachings about abiding in Christ, so we know what the other authors are really saying, keeping others from twisting them to their advantage.
It's a wonderful scripture, showing us that God makes us able to bear fruit, & multiplies our ability to do so when we live by faith & walk in loving obedience to Him.
Now, that's real grace in action.
So far, G777 hasn't shown any evidence to prove his "position" theory.
How can he claim someone said Jesus is a liar?
Here's what he's talking about, & it's obvious he hates it..... but displayed no scripture at all to dispute it.
John 15
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyonedoes not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.This scripture tells plainly that we live because we're attached to Jesus, the true vine.
Being "thrown away" plainly means to be separated from Christ. No Christ, no life.
Being thrown in the fire means thrown into Hell. Again, it's plain.
Bearing fruit is mandatory. Those bearing fruit are empowered to bear more. This shows the christian is expected to grow & mature spiritually, bearing more fruit as they grow.
This scripture is much more important than these others quoted above. Here's why:
1. Jesus taught it. That makes it absolute truth.
2. Jesus teaches Abiding in its completeness. No pieces, or one-verse wonders.
3. It teaches the truth about fruit bearing. It states fruitfulness is mandatory & what happens when you do & what happens if you don't.
4. It leaves no room for twisting its symbolism nor its message. That's why false teachers won't use it.
5. It states plainly that obedience is the fruit & proves we're abiding in Him.
6. It proves we glorify God by bearing much fruit, & in doing this, prove to the world we're Christ's disciples.
7. It locks in the meaning to properly interpret other teachings about abiding in Christ, so we know what the other authors are really saying, keeping others from twisting them to their advantage.
It's a wonderful scripture, showing us that God makes us able to bear fruit, & multiplies our ability to do so when we live by faith & walk in loving obedience to Him.
Now, that's real grace in action.
Greetings Stephan, the idea of positional righteousness for the most part came from the mind of Plato, and was brought into the supposed church by Augustine, and advanced by Luther, Calvin, and the Reformationists. It completely and conveniently circumvents biblical Covenant theology abridged with obedience to the truth via heart purity........so by way of their own works did they frame the law of the Spirit in mischief, therefore reinventing the gospel and making it of none effect in regards to purging the works of sin in ones life..........be blessed
A
Can't find the quote anymore on his website but here is an example of a false promise... "Name it and claim it" false doctrine...
"Word of faith" is not faith in Jesus or faith in the Bible but faith in unbiblical doctrine that the world and God will do YOUR Will based on twisted bible verses like Satan used to tempt Jesus to toss himself off the mountain. Instead of prayerfully asking God to reveal His will for your life, your pride and selfishness is boosted up by telling you that YOU have power and how you shouldn't pray for God to help you but do it yourself.
"Word of faith" is not faith in Jesus or faith in the Bible but faith in unbiblical doctrine that the world and God will do YOUR Will based on twisted bible verses like Satan used to tempt Jesus to toss himself off the mountain. Instead of prayerfully asking God to reveal His will for your life, your pride and selfishness is boosted up by telling you that YOU have power and how you shouldn't pray for God to help you but do it yourself.
I've heard various works-salvationists say they agree with Ephesians 2:8-9, yet when pressed to explain what Paul is saying in Ephesians 2:8-9, it goes like this: Saved by grace through faith "infused or conjoined with works" (good works/works of obedience) just not works of the law.
*Sugar coated double talk.
Good works/works of obedience cannot be dissected from the moral aspect of the law. Such people think that just because they don't teach salvation by perfectly obeying the whole law, that they don't teach salvation by works. It's still faith + works (their check list of works).
*Sugar coated double talk.
Good works/works of obedience cannot be dissected from the moral aspect of the law. Such people think that just because they don't teach salvation by perfectly obeying the whole law, that they don't teach salvation by works. It's still faith + works (their check list of works).
Hello brother. I'm not crazy about preachers that say revival or anything we do is going to bring Jesus back, but I'm not sure that qualifies for not believing THE Gospel. If you tell me they don't believe the following then I'd have a big problem with them, and to be clear, I don't know what they believe:
Here is the Gospel. God wrapped Himself in human flesh, was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the virgin Mary, suffered, was crucified, died for our sin, and rose to life on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures.
Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, believe in your heart that He rose from the grave, and you WILL be saved.
Then the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will work in your life to transform you into the likeness of Jesus, and give you a desire for, and the ability to, do His Will.
Here is the Gospel. God wrapped Himself in human flesh, was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the virgin Mary, suffered, was crucified, died for our sin, and rose to life on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures.
Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, believe in your heart that He rose from the grave, and you WILL be saved.
Then the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will work in your life to transform you into the likeness of Jesus, and give you a desire for, and the ability to, do His Will.
A
I kind of thought you were boasting in the Lord and being thankful to him and that's why I posted the rejoicing scriptures.
The second was for you to use in defense if someone accused you of pride.
.it's not prideful or wrong to boast as long as you give all glory and thanks to God and His power working in your life.
The Bible actually tells us to meditate upon good things. Sharing ones testimony and how God has worked in your life is a good thing and shouldn't be discouraged.
However folks like stomping on others sand castles. So don't be surprised if someone comes by to tell you that you shouldn't boast. Just know that the Bible says it's okay and a good thing to boast and rejoice in Christ.
The second was for you to use in defense if someone accused you of pride.
.it's not prideful or wrong to boast as long as you give all glory and thanks to God and His power working in your life.
The Bible actually tells us to meditate upon good things. Sharing ones testimony and how God has worked in your life is a good thing and shouldn't be discouraged.
However folks like stomping on others sand castles. So don't be surprised if someone comes by to tell you that you shouldn't boast. Just know that the Bible says it's okay and a good thing to boast and rejoice in Christ.
Hi PenEd,
Those 101 Scriptures you shared are wonderful thanks for sharing those. I don't think anyone would not believe in those scriptures which are referring to the "Believer". However is it possible for a "Believer" to become an "Unbeliever" once he believed and turn back into the world and leave God?
God bless and thanks for sharing
PS sorry way behind in the reading, just woke up
Those 101 Scriptures you shared are wonderful thanks for sharing those. I don't think anyone would not believe in those scriptures which are referring to the "Believer". However is it possible for a "Believer" to become an "Unbeliever" once he believed and turn back into the world and leave God?
God bless and thanks for sharing
PS sorry way behind in the reading, just woke up
That's not entirely accurate. When we know God's will - then we can speak it out. For example I regularly "name and claim" that Jesus is my righteousness.
Jesus did say to speak to the mountain - not to speak to God about the mountain. There is a time to speak and a time to listen before we speak to get the mind of Christ on it too.
I regularly "name and claim it" that all my sins are forgiven because of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ . So, I speak against those thoughts that come that are contrary to the word of God in that area.
I do not believe however in "if I say it enough times - then I will manifest it. That's a work of the flesh. I say it because it is true not to try to get it to be true by my own self-efforts."
That is the part of the word of faith stuff that I dis-agree with but I am not going to slander them because of it - instead I teach that real faith brings into manifestation what grace has already provided in Christ's finished work.
Now what happens is that some people don't believe in healing or tongues...etc like others do and then they feel it is their right to slander them because of a dis-agreement.
Sometimes it is a mis-understanding of what is really being said and this gets gossiped around as if it is true. Well meaning people parrot this gossip and it becomes an "established fact" but in reality - it may not be.
Then there are those that deceitfully continue to distort what is really being said no matter how many times someone says what is believed.
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Good morning (my time just woke up),
Oh my goodness, did I just share with you nearly 200+ scriptures which contradict your interpretation of Col 2:16-17 for you to say no to God's Word to hold on to your interpretation of 2 scriptures? (Post 22030 with extra links; Post 22032 + Post 22033; and Post 22034 ?
The fact is, the Sabbath is all through the old and new testament you may not have seen the scriptures although much of the new testament ones were already posted to you. If that is all you have to say to the above posts to justify keeping a man made teaching and tradition that has no basis in the God's Word (Sunday Worship) that is between you and God because God's Word will judge us on the last days and I do not judge you (John 12:48-50). If we love Jesus we should follow His Word (John 14:15).
Scripture support:
Mark 2:27-28; Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Heb 4:1-12 Rev 1:10; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; 1John 2:3-4)
God bless you all
Oh my goodness, did I just share with you nearly 200+ scriptures which contradict your interpretation of Col 2:16-17 for you to say no to God's Word to hold on to your interpretation of 2 scriptures? (Post 22030 with extra links; Post 22032 + Post 22033; and Post 22034 ?
The fact is, the Sabbath is all through the old and new testament you may not have seen the scriptures although much of the new testament ones were already posted to you. If that is all you have to say to the above posts to justify keeping a man made teaching and tradition that has no basis in the God's Word (Sunday Worship) that is between you and God because God's Word will judge us on the last days and I do not judge you (John 12:48-50). If we love Jesus we should follow His Word (John 14:15).
Scripture support:
Mark 2:27-28; Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Heb 4:1-12 Rev 1:10; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; 1John 2:3-4)
God bless you all
Bruce,
You do know Bethel was originally organized under the Assemblies of God in 1952 and left them only in 2006. Bill Johnson took control of the church from Ray Larsen and his Dad, Earl Johnson was the Sr. Pastor before Ray. Bill was only voted in as long as he promised to keep preaching a main theme of revival and nothing else....They wthdrew from the AOG in 06 based on the fact Bill did not feel revivalism was in the AOG central call...but was in Bethels.....
Although they he did leave and renounce certain religious doctrines from the AOG, they did not renounce one certain point of doctrine from the AOG and Bill believes it in today....that doctrine is that OSAS is a lie and that man can and will lose his salvation if he does not abide in works....
I think you better be careful here Bruce. You are stating that salvation is OSAS and not based on works and that you cannot lose it ever out of one side of your mouth and out of the other you endorse a Pastor and his Church who openly refute OSAS doctrine and believe in works based salvation and that salvation can in fact be lost, by not abiding. He only teaches and preaches only one thing, so he can keep his Job and that is the NAR false doctrine of revivalism....
His Dad Earl and many former Pastors all preached and taught OSAS is a lie and not found in the Bible....This doctrine is a key doctrine among all of the Assemblies of God...This does not even begin to address the spirits of error and seducing spirits and demonic activity Bethel has become a slave to, as soon as he promised to be a NAR revivalism only ministry....old school wise ministers know this schism of revivalism is better known as the Latter rain movement....which is absolutely a worse doctrine of demons than WOF....
You better be careful who youa re giving your usual passes to , because I find it confusing and unsettling you would say one thing in 100's of pages on this thread, then seem to be foolish enough to endorse someone who openly rejects what you are preaching...
You do know Bethel was originally organized under the Assemblies of God in 1952 and left them only in 2006. Bill Johnson took control of the church from Ray Larsen and his Dad, Earl Johnson was the Sr. Pastor before Ray. Bill was only voted in as long as he promised to keep preaching a main theme of revival and nothing else....They wthdrew from the AOG in 06 based on the fact Bill did not feel revivalism was in the AOG central call...but was in Bethels.....
Although they he did leave and renounce certain religious doctrines from the AOG, they did not renounce one certain point of doctrine from the AOG and Bill believes it in today....that doctrine is that OSAS is a lie and that man can and will lose his salvation if he does not abide in works....
I think you better be careful here Bruce. You are stating that salvation is OSAS and not based on works and that you cannot lose it ever out of one side of your mouth and out of the other you endorse a Pastor and his Church who openly refute OSAS doctrine and believe in works based salvation and that salvation can in fact be lost, by not abiding. He only teaches and preaches only one thing, so he can keep his Job and that is the NAR false doctrine of revivalism....
His Dad Earl and many former Pastors all preached and taught OSAS is a lie and not found in the Bible....This doctrine is a key doctrine among all of the Assemblies of God...This does not even begin to address the spirits of error and seducing spirits and demonic activity Bethel has become a slave to, as soon as he promised to be a NAR revivalism only ministry....old school wise ministers know this schism of revivalism is better known as the Latter rain movement....which is absolutely a worse doctrine of demons than WOF....
You better be careful who youa re giving your usual passes to , because I find it confusing and unsettling you would say one thing in 100's of pages on this thread, then seem to be foolish enough to endorse someone who openly rejects what you are preaching...
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A
No..,instead you blur the lines and refuse to stand firm that "name it and claim it" is a false doctrine.
Standing firm on God's promises is totally different from what is being taught. You even say you don't agree what is being taught, yet try and redefine the teachings to make them seem legit.
I don't really have words for that.
It's not slander to show what people teach and say it's unbiblical and the show how it's unbiblical.
"Name it and claim it" is witchcraft disguised in Christian terms because it's NOT about GOD's will but false promises of wealth (new cars, million dollars,etc) and health (miracles upon demand if you have enough faith..,if not its your fault for being unfaithful).
If people don't believe or teach that, then fine. If people do, then they need to be rebuked and repent for teaching lies and false doctrine.
Standing firm on God's promises is totally different from what is being taught. You even say you don't agree what is being taught, yet try and redefine the teachings to make them seem legit.
I don't really have words for that.
It's not slander to show what people teach and say it's unbiblical and the show how it's unbiblical.
"Name it and claim it" is witchcraft disguised in Christian terms because it's NOT about GOD's will but false promises of wealth (new cars, million dollars,etc) and health (miracles upon demand if you have enough faith..,if not its your fault for being unfaithful).
If people don't believe or teach that, then fine. If people do, then they need to be rebuked and repent for teaching lies and false doctrine.
To tell you the truth brother - I am not interested in any gossip of those in the body of Christ. I listen to what the actual "horse" themselves say "now" and judge from there as I listen to the Holy Spirit within me.
Sometimes I hear - "that is not entirely accurate....there is an element missing that is needed in order to get a fuller understanding of it".
I am well acquainted with the Pentecostal religion. I was in it for decades and there are some very loving people that love Jesus in it but there is also IMO some error too as there is in every denomination but I will leave that in the Lord's hands.
In saying that - I have never found a minister that I believe in everything that they have said on every subject. I pray that the Lord reveals more of Himself to me so that in 5 years I will believe differently then what I do now with the understanding I do have now in the Lord.
Let's just leave it at that....
I don't know exactly what it is myself but one thing I do know.
Listen from the mouth of the "horse" themselves to hear exactly what they are saying and not from what others say about it.
We know how others can take something that is said out of the context it was said in and completely make something else out of it.
And sometimes - others even knowing exactly what is being said and they are representing it accurately - they still can dis-agree but do it in a way that is not slandering the other person nor do it in malice.
I believe this type of dis-agreement is healthy for the body of Christ.
Then there are those that deceitfully continue to mis-represent what is really being said even after showing them the truth - these types are to be avoided as they are filled with the leaven of malice.
Listen from the mouth of the "horse" themselves to hear exactly what they are saying and not from what others say about it.
We know how others can take something that is said out of the context it was said in and completely make something else out of it.
And sometimes - others even knowing exactly what is being said and they are representing it accurately - they still can dis-agree but do it in a way that is not slandering the other person nor do it in malice.
I believe this type of dis-agreement is healthy for the body of Christ.
Then there are those that deceitfully continue to mis-represent what is really being said even after showing them the truth - these types are to be avoided as they are filled with the leaven of malice.