Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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But AM I believing in the One He has sent if I am not remaining in trust and growing in trust? Or am I just SAYING I believe in Him if I worry about money and provision despite all He said regarding it? What, I trust Him to save me but then don't trust Him about a much smaller matter? How then can I say I trust Him? I am both trusting Him for a big thing but then mistrusting and disregarding Him on the smaller point of trust. (This is what Israel did. They stepped out under the towering wall of water but then did not continue in that trust (abide) when it came to trusting Him to provide again tomorrow and so listen and only collect enough for the day.) After all, wouldn't it be a small thing to keep His promise to provide for me after raising my dead body and transforming it?
I think you are overthinking stunned. It's when we see the answers to something that we are asking, then faith gets stronger. Roots go deeper with every time we see Gods hand in our life.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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is it anger? Or hatred in the heart that's likened to murder? Be angry, sin not.
AMEN...there is biblical anger that is without wrath......Jesus is our prime example...and he drove the money changers out with a whip....Paul was angered with the Corinthian assembly and said he would not spare, Moses broke the tables of stone in anger etc.......being angry at times and for the right reason is biblical...the problem is when we take it to the point of wrath and or evil thoughts tied to said anger....
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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AMEN...there is biblical anger that is without wrath......Jesus is our prime example...and he drove the money changers out with a whip....Paul was angered with the Corinthian assembly and said he would not spare, Moses broke the tables of stone in anger etc.......being angry at times and for the right reason is biblical...the problem is when we take it to the point of wrath and or evil thoughts tied to said anger....
I get angry when people tell me I can lose my salvation :):mad:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What? Then we have never been saved to begin with. There is no middle ground, your not part saved, part lost, and if you sin you fall again, That is putting us back under law. And as paul said, if you want to go back to law. and even one part, you are indebted to follow ever part. and you better not mess up one time, Because the law will condemn you.

AMEN.......works of the law or grace....one or the other....I take grace any day......
 
Jan 27, 2013
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the problem with an epiphany,it never asked us, not look in the mirror, before all walked through the glen the of death,
please tell me ,why i have to post this.( i am a gentile. )
 
Dec 12, 2013
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the problem with an epiphany,it never asked us, not look in the mirror, before all walked through the glen the of death,
please tell me ,why i have to post this.( i am a gentile. )
Brother I have no clue what you are saying here.....

 
Jan 27, 2013
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and why doctors, who has a sexual gender gap, asking who is going to fill that black hole, with there human reasoning, since the word , xucx, off, was never understood, in different lingos,please translate, now you can invent, your own air, on your planet, that your children can inhale like smoke,, please respect my god. thank you, for not laughing, at your own down fall. \0/
 
Jan 27, 2013
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a white coat, needs to be under the alter. not prolonging your babies logic, to why strick there leader, and the rest will scatter.
walk trough the valley of death without money.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Godly works are the "gauge" of our faith, or others we see.

Jesus said we'll know them by their fruits (works).


How do you know one of you favorite preachers is a person of great faith? By his works, of course.:)

Not sure I agree. I think there have been some men who did good and kind works and the world admired them, yet they did not know God and rejected Jesus. I think rather than good and beneficent acts, we know those who are His by the fruits of the Spirit. Even unbelievers have, in the past, fed the poor and funded orphanages, etc.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Can't find the quote.,,

Anyway, Rosemary


I do see that both "sides" have more in common than either of them will admit.

Some of it is just semantics but some is actual differences and there is more than two "sides" when you actually listen to all beliefs.

What I find that most that have in common is the following.

1. Salvation is by faith through grace
2. Works will follow salvation if people have a true saving faith that is alive and not dead.

What is debated is:

A. Is salvation unconditional and unmerited or conditional and must be maintained?(the condition many put is either folks must remain in the faith, have good works, etc)
B. Are you saved when you first believe or only upon death and running a good race and staying true your whole life?
C. Can you be saved and then lose your salvation? (similar to A but is different)

We also have some who teach that you have to observe the 7th day Sabbath or be labeled a sinner.

There is more but that is the main issues I see in the debate.

Also we have the heresies of

1. Easy believism
2. Hyper grace
3. Legalism
4. Licentenous
5. NAR
6. WOF
7. Jesus is not God

And many other ...questionable doctrines that make conversation difficult because people either believe or are accused of believing false doctrines that are unbiblical.
 
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We can also add in the heresies of John Wesley, Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, John MacArthur, Andrew Wommack, Billy Graham, C. S. Lewis, Kay Arthur. Martin Luther, John Calvin, Joyce Meyer, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Charles Stanley ...etc - basically anyone that believes in a subject that is different from what "I and what my group" believes.

There are even websites dedicated to the "heresies" of the apostle Paul because his teachings "conflict" with Jesus in their minds.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Muddy waters G777...I did not name names but gave names to false doctrines which most would agree are false as defined.

How and who the labels are placed upon can be debated as but the clearly defined terms can be shown to be unbiblical Or at the very least unorthodoxed.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Muddy waters G777...I did not name names but gave names to false doctrines which most would agree are false as defined.

How and who the labels are placed upon can be debated as but the clearly defined terms can be shown to be unbiblical Or at the very least unorthodoxed.

That is your own personal opinion and you are entitled to it. Each one of those people speak of things that others don't agree with and thus they are called heresies.

Believing in Christ's work and the grace of God are not heresies.
 
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willybob

Guest
I get angry when people tell me I can lose my salvation :):mad:
one doesn't jut lose it, but rather forfeits it by departing from the covenant, assuming they have entered into the covenant to begin with.......Its all about keeping covenant, (the covenant keepers of a thousand generations, spoken of 3 times in the OT).......be blessed
 
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Ariel82

Guest

That is your own personal opinion and you are entitled to it. Each one of those people speak of things that others don't agree with and thus they are called heresies.

Believing in Christ's work and the grace of God are not heresies.
People are called heretics. False doctrines are called heresies.


My point is if we would talk of heresies instead of wasting time labeling people as heretics, we might actually discuss the Bible instead of make ad hominem attacks.


There is ONE GOSPEL that is true and we should all seek to learn and understand what God tells us via the Bible as revealed by the Holy spirit. The Bible (by illumination of the Holy spirit) tells us how to live our lives and the message God wants us to tell the world.
 
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51. The believer’s hope will not fade away. Will not grow dim.

1 Peter 1:4-5: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

52. The believer’s hope is reserved (set aside) in heaven for him.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

53. The believer’s inheritance is incorruptible.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

54. The believer’s inheritance cannot be defiled.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away reserved in heaven for you.”

55. The believer is kept through faith.

1 Peter 1:4-5: (See reasons number 36 and 37): “to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

56. The believer to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

The believer is more than conqueror through Christ.

Romans 8:37: “Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.”

57. The believer justified by faith, to be saved from wrath.

Romans 5:9: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

58. Nothing can separate the believer from Christ.

Romans 8:38-39: “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

59. Christ will complete salvation until the end.

Philippians 1:6: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

60. The believer to be preserved spirit, soul, and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23: “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

61. God cannot lie.

Titus 1:2: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.”

62. Jesus is able to save unto the uttermost.

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

63. The believer is born of incorruptible seed.

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” Can the devil corrupt that which God says is incorruptible?

64. The believer is perfected forever.

Hebrews 10:14: “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”

65. The believer believes unto the saving of his soul.

Hebrews 10:38-39: “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

66. The believer made righteous through Christ’s obedience.

Romans 5:18-19: “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

67. Because all things work together for good to the believer.

Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

68. Because the believer is so helpless that he cannot place his sins upon Christ. God must do it for him. Therefore salvation is by grace.

Isaiah 53:6: “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

69. Because Christ did not come to help us, but to save us.

Luke 19:10: “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

70. Because God, not being a man, cannot lie.

Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

71. Because His mercy endureth forever.

Psalm 136: Twenty-six times in this Psalm it is written His mercy endureth forever.”

72. Because the believer has not yet borne the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49: “And as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”

73. Because the believer is preserved unto the heavenly kingdom.

2 Timothy 4:18: “And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever.”

74. Because the believer is the object of God’s mercy, not His wrath.

Ephesians 2:4: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us.”

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”

75. Because a sealed and witnessed transaction is final.

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” Sealed by the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:15: “Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us.”

76. Salvation is obtained, not attained.

Hebrews 9:12: “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

77. Because the believer is a new creation. Created in Christ Jesus. Therefore eternal in righteousness.

Ephesians 4:24: “And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

78. Because the Father reckons the sinner:

Romans 6:3-5: “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.”

Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

79. Because all believers will be changed at Christ’s coming.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

80. Because of the “MUST” of 1 Corinthians 15:53.

1 Corinthians 15:23: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

81. Because the power of God is not limited.

Matthew 28:18-19: “And Jesus came and spake to them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

82. Because the saints are preserved forever.

Psalms 37:28: “For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”

83. Because nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

Romans 8:35: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”

The answer NO” is demanded by the passage to the question.

84. Because God will not forget the believer.

Isaiah 49:15: “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.”

85. Because the new covenant in His blood, is an everlasting covenant.

Jeremiah 32:40: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”

86. Because the believer has ceased from his own works.

Hebrews 4:10: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” It is God that works in the believer.

87. Because we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:10: “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

88. Because the believer has already been redeemed (Past tense).

2 Peter 1:18-19: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

89. Because the believer’s salvation is begun and finished by Christ.

Hebrews 12:2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

90. Because salvation is by grace, and not by any mixture of grace and works.

Romans 11:6: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

91. Because Christ died. rose again, and intercedes for born again believers.

Romans 8:37: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

92. Because God predestined believers in His Truth according to His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of his Son, and then, in time, He calls and justifies us, and finally He will glorify us.

Romans 8:29-30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Ephesians 1:5, 7, 11, 13: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ... In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ..."

2 Corinthians 2:13: "... God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

93. Because salvation IS salvation.

Hebrews 5:9: "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

94. The believer cannot perish.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

95. Because God’s promise that through the offering of Christ He will put away the believer’s sins, and will remember them no more.

Hebrews 10:17: “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

96. Because God is for us!

Romans 8:31: "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"

97. God chastens His children rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."

98. God allows His children to suffer loss of rewards in Heaven rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

99. God allows His children to suffer shame at His coming rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 John 2:28: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

100. Because God is greater than our heart.

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

101. God is able to save and keep us.

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."
When exactly were you going to tell us you copy/pasted this straight off the internet? This makes twice you posted it without a single reference to the author.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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please pray to king d. and say to him , your wife , could not follow , a new covenant.

me being a gentle man, can i marry her,if she makes, it through the new convenant, loop hole, with no money. please.