Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I have little time to keep caught up let alone go back to and reread. As I said...it's a free forum and anyone can answer.

But, if I insulted you in some way? It wasn't meant to be. I truly care about you and how you believe because I know how great it is to be freed from law..for it's the law of sin and death. Something we aren't under now..

Now, it's the law of the Spirit of life...in fixed position...Christ Jesus.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Jesus sat with, ate with and associated with sinners, publicans and whores and was called a winebibber because he drank.....so....how does that fit your hard fast rule?
Jesus sat with them, ate with them, but didn't run with them.

He would fellowship with them for the opportunities to minister.

It's one thing to fellowship with the unsaved, & quite another to fellowship with religious heretics who are apostates.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
You were just boo hooing the other day about how certain things should not be done. Your hypocrisy seems to have no bounds.
Your meanness seems to have no bounds.

Jesus must be very pleased with you and your good works...

Have you ever read the Beatitudes?

Read them again.
Mathew 5:3-10

It'll do you good.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Jesus called Peter Satan, but he was still saved, don't you think? Yet the pharisees, scribes, and law pushers Jesus called children of the devil. Surely we can see a difference.
Yes, yes..when you put it this way. :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,529
26,488
113
Your meanness seems to have no bounds.

Jesus must be very pleased with you and your good works...

Have you ever read the Beatitudes?

Read them again.
Mathew 5:3-10

It'll do you good.
You are a funny one Fran, lying about people and falsely accusing them and crying about the very things you do. I am not the only one to notice this about you. It would do you good if you could practice what you preach, but you seem incapable despite all the airs you like to put on.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Sweep your own house pal.....and remove the beam that protrudes from your eyes and then come worry about mine.....you rip people way more than I do.......!

That is EXACTLY what I expected out of you.

After all, you do it to everybody that disagrees with you..... some more than others.

When a OSAS doesn't answer to God, he sure won't answer to man.
:rolleyes:
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
It means to entrust your whole life into the hands of another. Like a woman marrying a man.

What do you say it is? Please answer! :)
Well, that's he start of what BELIEVE means.

I've explained it many times.

The reason I asked YOU to explain it is because it's really important to understand this.
It would change your whole way of thinking.

Since you know so much about GREEK when it suits you,
How come no one on your side of the isle could EVER give a true explanation of the word BELIEVE?

Know why?

It doesn't agree with your point of view.

LOOK IT UP.
Do a study on it.

What does it mean to BELIEVE in Jesus?

Get that --- and you have the complete understanding of why you're wrong to say that faith plus works is not biblical.

IT IS VERY BIBLICAL.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Excuse me

But I asked for verses with Jesus' words

NOT A GREEK LESSON.

If I want a lesson in Greek, I know where to go
and it won't be to YOU or a Greek lexicon...

How about some words of JESUS??

Are you all ALLERGIC TO HIM though you claim to worship Him??
Well, Jesus was speaking to Israel and Israel was under law. We are not the nation of Israel, but a body of believers.

And the revelation was given to Paul. So I guess that is why we quote Paul when we discuss the body of Christ.

You sound angry.

And since most of our bibles are translations from greek, don't you think it wise to study what the greek actually means since our English may not be so accurate?

Or would you prefer Hebrew to English? I can switch you know.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0

That is EXACTLY what I expected out of you.

After all, you do it to everybody that disagrees with you..... some more than others.

When a OSAS doesn't answer to God, he sure won't answer to man.
:rolleyes:
Why answer to God or anyone?

They're saved FOREVER.
NO MATTER WHAT.

Would I love to have some verses on this..

But alas, they are not forthcoming BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST.
 
Last edited:
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
He is not talking salvation........seems you and Sponge have something in common a failure to use the following word below

con·text
ˈkäntekst/
noun
noun: context; plural noun: contexts

  • the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
    "the decision was taken within the context of planned cuts in spending"
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]circumstances, conditions, factors, state of affairs, situation, background, scene, setting More"the wider historical context"



    frame of reference, contextual relationship;
    text, subject, theme, topic
    "a quote taken out of context"


    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    • the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.
      "word processing is affected by the context in which words appear



Yeah, explain it all away by saying eternal life & salvation aren't related.

Gee, how did I not see that?
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Well, Jesus was speaking to Israel and Israel was under law. We are not the nation of Israel, but a body of believers.

And the revelation was given to Paul. So I guess that is why we quote Paul when we discuss the body of Christ.

You sound angry.

And since most of our bibles are translations from greek, don't you think it wise to study what the greek actually means since our English may not be so accurate?

Or would you prefer Hebrew to English? I can switch you know.
I'm not angry.

Did you go back and read my post no. 22109?
Are you going to apologize?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I did ask you to interpret the word believe. I did, now why not you? If you have posted it in the past, I didn't see it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,529
26,488
113
I've explained it many times.
Why should people listen to you? You say quite often how you have no need of what others want to tell you but you seem to expect and desire everyone to fall down at your feet in rapt attention while you spew your hatred and Roman Catholic garbage, as if you had some knowledge others did not. Your double standard should make you ashamed of yourself but you seem blind to it as to many other things.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I don't often do this but I did go to the web for a further study of the word believe..

~ [h=1]Believe[/h]We are told that if we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ then we shall be saved[1]. It therefore clearly behooves us to know what the word believe really means. Fortunately it is a fairly direct translation of two words: 'âman (H539) in the Hebrew and pisteuō (G4100). There are two additional Greek words rendered believe but they are the noun and adjective form of the same verb.


Somewhat less pleasingly the meaning of the Hebrew is very broad indeed. The distribution of KJV translations for 'âman emphasizes this: believe[2](44), faithful (20), sure(12), established (7), brought(5), trust(6), verified(3), continuance(2), nurse(5), stand(1). This slightly off-putting list needs to be balanced by the emphasis the Bible places upon the importance of the word. Here is the first use of âman.


Gen 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed[SUP]539[/SUP] in the LORD;[SUP]3068[/SUP] and he counted[SUP]2803[/SUP] it to him for righteousness.[SUP]6666[/SUP]
Clearly the word 'believe' and 'salvation' are as closely tied in Old Testament theology as they are in the New Testament.
Looking up 'âman in a dictionary[3] shows that the breadth of translation provided by the King James is entirely reasonable:
1) to support, confirm, be faithful
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to support, confirm, be faithful, uphold, nourish
1a1a) foster-father (substantive)
1a1b) foster-mother, nurse
1a1c) pillars, supporters of the door
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be established, be faithful, be carried, make firm
1b1a) to be carried by a nurse
1b1b) made firm, sure, lasting
1b1c) confirmed, established, sure
1b1d) verified, confirmed
1b1e) reliable, faithful, trusty
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to stand firm, to trust, to be certain, to believe in
1c1a) stand firm
1c1b) trust, believe


Of course the quick answer is simply to jump to the Hiphil parsing; note that it is the parsing used in Gen 15:6[4] and simply state that it means a firm trust in something. In many ways that is reasonable but I think the other definitions help color the meaning beautifully.


Firstly we note that the root meaning is to build up or support.[5] This is used of a nail supporting a door and of someone nursing a child. We see both the firmness and strength coupled with the need for ongoing persistence (or faithfulness). The Niphal then shows the effect of the root; that one should be supported, established or verified. The Hiphal is then causative (the NET Bible[6] describes it as declarative); the effect of this steadfast reliability and support is that one considers something steadfast, reliable and supportive. Walker-Jones[7] gives a fascinating insight into the Hiphil; he states that the Hiphil tends to refer to something that only occurs a few times and that the object as well as the subject are causal in the event. Thus in the case of Abraham we may well be seeing saving faith at this point; Abraham is responding to God's providence by transitioning to a state where he considers God as his supporter.


Often when coming upon the meaning of an English word in the Bible one is faced with the question as to whether or not the Hebrew and Greek meanings of a translated word are equivalent. Happily we have no such decision to make for 'believe' as the Holy Spirit made it for us. Rom 4:3 quotes Gen 15:6 and the Greek word used in place of 'âman is pisteuō.


The translation of pisteuō is also not in question. Of the 250 times it occurs it is translated believe or some derivative 240 times; the other ten commit (7) and trust(3). What is interesting however is that the root meaning of the word is very different from the Hebrew equivalent. Pisteuō is the verb form of pistis which means the conviction of truth of something or to trust the fidelity of someone[8]. They are both derived from peithō which means to persuade. Thus we see that whereas 'âman looks for a response to providence pisteuō looks for a response to truth.


Whilst remembering that the Spirit has equated these two words it is interesting to ponder why such an important concept is allowed to have two different shades of meaning in the Old and New Testament. I suggest it is a simple result of the cultural realities of the situation. In the Old Testament God had worked extensively and visibly with Abraham prior to his believing.

Throughout Israel's history they were raised directly under the hand of God and their covenant provided that faithfulness would be met by increased provision. In the New Testament there is no such guarantee; our reward is in heaven. Also prior to belief the Gentile is an object of wrath and thus whilst the object of general provision they will not have been the subject of special provision. We are thus asked to believe in the truth of God's promises independent of physical verification.


The above stated: it is probably worth also noting that in Gen 15:6 Abraham believed immediately after God made a promise that defied physical verification or common sense[9]. The New Testament makes clear also that the nature of God is visible to us through creation even before our salvation. I think we therefore see how the two shades of meaning dovetail together.

No matter the covenant in force the requirement placed upon man is that they should believe (consider true) what God is telling them and rely upon it.

~
http://www.dabhand.org/Word%20Studies/Believe.htm
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Those who are His He will not lose. Those who argue against this are not His.
WHO are His???

John 5:28-29
John 14:15
John 15:6

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

John 5:28-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.



John 14:15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."



John 15:6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.




THE ABOVE IS JESUS SPEAKING..
 
P

PHart

Guest
the question no one has answered or asked, what are these works?
I answered it: Hebrews 6:9-10 NASB. These are the things that accompany salvation. Not earn it, but accompany it. And if they don't accompany it, the author says fields that have only thorns and thistles in it will be burned up in the end.