Not By Works

[Rosemaryx]

would someone please rep rose for me?

rose is writing of the process of searching for biblical truth and also how the Holy Spirit will bring to our minds what we have read and studied.

I will not address that other nonsensical mystical hogwash because it does not agree with scripture

please please please people!

read the Bible! study the Bible! and ignore the nonsense begin spouted regarding being born with the Holy Spirit and He comes to life when we are saved

we are tripartate beings. the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us when we are saved.

I cannot stress enough the garbage regarding the mystical nonsense that borders on Gnosticism and hedges on teaching of demons

let's have the scripture that states we are born with the Holy Spirit. if it's in the Bible I would like to see it

let's have it and then I'll eat my feather pillow, make a video of it, and post it here

and I don't mean some mystical interpretation that belongs in a fortune teller's parlor being read from a cracked crystal ball that has serious cumulus clouds developing in it

Sevenseas haha...Please don`t eat your feather pillow, you would choke and be gratefully missed...However, i am very happy to learn from what Desertsrose posted, i feel that is my little gem for today, it is something i will never repeat, i feel i have grown,even if it`s a wee bit...Am glad i posted it on the thread, could you imagine if someone from some where asked that same question, i would of given them that answer and led them away with false talk, it`s a valuable lesson, am so happy no one came down on me like a ton of bricks ...xox...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Sevenseas haha...Please don`t eat your feather pillow, you would choke and be gratefully missed...However, i am very happy to learn from what Desertsrose posted, i feel that is my little gem for today, it is something i will never repeat, i feel i have grown,even if it`s a wee bit...Am glad i posted it on the thread, could you imagine if someone from some where asked that same question, i would of given them that answer and led them away with false talk, it`s a valuable lesson, am so happy no one came down on me like a ton of bricks ...xox...

OPPS hahaha i mean dearly missed lol...xox...

 

[sevenseas]

haha Rosemary

I fear you have come closer to the truth when you said I would be gratefully missed!

too funny! hugs

 

[JIMBO43]

I just dont get how adam could die spiritualy for eating an apple... i know he disobey God but adam did not die spiritually coz God went to all the truble to save him afterwards.... whats diffacult about this to understand..

i know the new testement states having died in adam and made alive in christ...

The term here died only means if we stay in adam.... we are all adams at birth...wer are not dead at birth as one memebr has just shown here..

 

[JIMBO43]

and lets just say the laws around this did change as it is writen no longer shall the son bare the iniquity of the father..

Ezekiel 18:20
20"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity;

The seed of life is incorruptable...

 

[BillG]

GM allen!
I don't think it can be quite so simply stated. (Referring to your last sentence here.)
Remember how satan tried to get Jesus to only look at one verse apart from another verse that gives it its' roundness?
He tries to do this to us too. (And he sometimes succeeds with us like he did not succeed with Jesus.)

Most of the arguments in here are that exact thing happening. (From BOTH sides.)

There are so many verses we are duped into taking apart that we may as well say it's ALL of them.
God is both kind AND severe.
He can save to the uttermost IF you abide in Him and a verse says in agreement, I can't make you stand firm if you won't stand firm.

For every verse there is a verse in tension to it. Rightly dividing the word is to say: yes, but God has also said such and such. That's how Jesus responded to attempts to take a verse and run to the side with it. He gave the verse in tension to it. This doesn't mean one of them is right and one of them is wrong. It means they fit together and that if you take one apart from the other, you have not divided well.

Evening

The fact is that both sides of the argument here, hopefully will have taken time to study enough to be comfortable in what is is they believe, rather than believe what they have been told. To be Bereans as such.

Lets be honest the apostles had disagreements and I am sure they would have argued about it.

I just want to say what my thoughts on the following you said

He can save to the uttermost IF you abide in Him and a verse says in agreement, I can't make you stand firm if you won't stand firm.

If I have read it correctly to be honest I am not sure I agree with you. If I have read it incorrectly then please correct (in love of course)

One must determine as to what abide means and its requirements.

John 15:3-6
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Now we have been made clean by the word, we could say that word is Jesus.
Its apparent we cannot we cannot bear fruit unless we are in/attached to the vine.
As we abide we bear fruit and continue to bear fruit.
Without Jesus we can do nothing.

What worries me is that people are quick to judge when a person is no longer in the vine.
At what point does someone come to that conclusion and why?
Some say they reject Jesus after accepting him and therefore were not really saved to begin with and then we have the reverse.

Some say it's because they don't crucify the vile sins of the flesh whilst some say works keep us saved and some say works show we are saved. Works that keep us saved needs to be quantified to extent of those works and at what level to maintain salvation.
Whilst the reverse may be that we do not need to do works.

With regards to this I actually think that both sides do believe that something has to change and happen in when we have placed faith in Jesus.

I myself am not works keep us saved but works will follow, because we cannot do the works Jesus requires unless we abide in him. NOW THAT BEING THE CASE I just want to give my thoughts with regards to "I can't make you stand firm if you won't to stand firm"

That is totally true. God cannot and will not overide our will. If we don't want to stand firm he says "Ok your choice but you will suffer the consequences" That doesn't necessarily mean they have cut themselves off, they could be just be in a place where they can't come to trust God.

However if a person is not standing firm that does not mean they have severed themselves from the vine.

If a person is truly in the vine and yet is struggling then they will do as this man did

Mark 9:23-24


23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”
24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

As I said if I have miss interpreted please correct me.

Bill

 

[JIMBO43]

ill put it another way the seed of life its self is not coruptable but the after the seed gives birth is when it can become corrupted... however it can not pass its corruptivness down to the next seed... we are born with a clean slate...

 

[Meggido]

Are we in the kingdom of God or is it yet to come?

The subject is not me but the kingdom of God. All sin is banished from the presence of God. In the kingdom of God there is no sin therefore there is no need of the law. The law shows transgression and there will be no transgression in the kingdom of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

and therein lies your error.....Then kingdom of God is within us...Jesus said so in Luke 17.21....

Luke 17.21

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Magenta]

I just dont get how adam could die spiritualy for eating an apple... i know he disobey God but adam did not die spiritually coz God went to all the truble to save him afterwards.... whats diffacult about this to understand..

i know the new testement states having died in adam and made alive in christ...

The term here died only means if we stay in adam.... we are all adams at birth...wer are not dead at birth as one memebr has just shown here..

There was no apple. In the flesh, we are dead to God until born again by the Spirit of God.

Not difficult to understand at all, but the natural man does not accept the spiritual things of God.

 

[Meggido]

Salvation is a one time event. It is described as a new birth a Spiritual rebirth. Upon the rebirth into Christ the process of sanctification begins and is completed when we are united with our Savior. We are made complete in Him when we shed this body of flesh and are glorified in Him for all of eternity.

I wish you had personal knowledge of this event.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So you guys do judge another persons salvation.....

 

[Stephen63]

Here's the scripture that's been falsely interpreted:

Hebrews 10​

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THEFURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Here's the Greek word for sanctify:
Strong's Concordance

hagiazó:to make holy, consecrate, sanctify​

Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Short Definition: make holy, sanctify
Definition: make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 37 hagiázō (from 40 /hágios, "holy") – to regard as special(sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify. See 40 (hagios).
[37 (hagiázō) means "to make holy, consecrate, sanctify; to dedicate, separate" (Abbott-Smith).]

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from hagios
Definition
to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
NASB Translation
hallowed (2), keep himself holy (1), sanctified (16), sanctifies (2), sanctify (7).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 37: ἁγιάζω

ἁγιάζω; 1 aorist ἡγίασα; passive (present ἁγιάζομαι; perfect ἡγίασμαι; 1 aorist ἡγιάσθην; a word for which the Greeks use ἁγίζειν, but very frequent in Biblical (as equivalent to קִדַשׁ, הִקְדִישׁ) and ecclesiastical writings; "to make ἅγιον, render or declare sacred or holy, consecrate". Hence, it denotes:1. to render or acknowledge to be venerable, to hallow: τό ὄνοματοῦ Θεοῦ, Matthew 6:9 (so of God, Isaiah 29:23; Ezekiel 20:41; Ezekiel 38:23; Sir. 33:4 (Sir. 36:4)); (Luke 11:2); τόν Χριστόν, 1 Peter 3:15 (R GΘεόν). Since the stamp of sacredness passes over from the holiness of God to whatever has any connection with God, ἁγιάζειν denotes
2. to separate from things profane and dedicate to God, to consecrateand so render inviolable;
a. things (πᾶν πρωτότοκον, τά ἀρσενικά, Deuteronomy 15:19; ἡμέραν, Exodus 20:8; οἶκον, 2 Chronicles 7:16, etc.): τόν χρυσόν, Matthew 23:17; τό δῶρον, Matthew 23:19; σκεῦος, 2 Timothy 2:21.
b. persons. So Christ is said by undergoing death to consecrate himself to God, whose will he in that way fulfills, John 17:19; God is said ἁγιάσαιChrist, i. e. to have selected him for his service (cf. ἀφορίζειν, Galatians 1:15) by having committed to him the office of Messiah, John 10:36, cf. Jeremiah 1:5; Sir. 36:12 (ἐξ αὐτῶν ἡγίασε, καί πρός αὐτόνἤγγισεν, of his selection of men for the priesthood); Sir. 45:4 Sir. 49:7. Since only what is pure and without blemish can be devoted and offered to God (Leviticus 22:20; Deuteronomy 15:21; Deuteronomy 17:1), ἁγιάζωsignifies
3. to purify (ἀπό τῶν ἀκαθαρσιῶν is added in Leviticus 16:19; 2 Samuel 11:4); and
a. to cleanse externally (πρός τήν τῆς σαρκός καθαρότητα), to purify levitically: Hebrews 9:13; 1 Timothy 4:5.
b. to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin: 1 Corinthians 6:11; Ephesians 5:26; Hebrews 10:10, 14, 29; Hebrews 13:12; Hebrews 2:11(equivalent to כִּפֶר, Exodus 29:33, 36); cf. Pfleiderer, Paulinismus, p. 340ff (English translation 2:68f).
c. to purify internally by reformation of soul: John 17:17, 19 (through knowledge of the truth, cf. John 8:32); 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 1 Corinthians 1:2 (ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ in the fellowship of Christ, the Holy One); Romans 15:16 (ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ imbued with the Holy Spirit, the divine source of holiness); Jude 1:1 (L T Tr WH ἠγαπημένοις (which see)); Revelation 22:11. In general, Christians are called ἡγιασμένοι (cf. Deuteronomy 33:3), as those who, freed from the impurity of wickedness, have been brought near to God by their faith and sanctity, Acts 20:32; Acts 26:18. In 1 Corinthians 7:14 ἁγιάζεσθαι is used in a peculiar sense of those who, although not Christians themselves, are yet, by marriage with a Christian, withdrawn from the contamination of heathen impiety and brought under the saving influence of the Holy Spirit displaying itself among Christians; cf. Neander at the passage.

Sanctified in this passage is hallowed, pure, set apart, holy.

Holy sinners? Hallowed sinners? Pure sinners? Sinners set apart by God?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..... CHRISTIANS!!!

Strong's, NASB, HELPS Word Studies, & Thayers Lexicon all agree!!!

Whoever is stating otherwise is WRONG!

 

[Meggido]

What makes you so sure about that?

2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Paul is talking about Timothy's upbringing here...why would you even think it has to do with someone being born with the Holy Spirit?

 

[Stephen63]

The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. First Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9 is even stronger, stating that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation.

Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior.

SOURCE BUT REMEMBER THEIR SOURCE IS THE BIBLE

**You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sevenseas again.**

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

Paul answered Stephens question.

We (those born again) are not those who draw back and insult the grace of God, We are those who believe TO THE SAVING OF THE SOUL.

Paul is warning people among them who may claim to be part of the church, But had not yet took that complete step of faith..

 

[stonesoffire]

how do you know i havent .

Good point. Only by what you write I think. What do you think?

 

[mailmandan]

Here's the scripture that's been falsely interpreted:

Hebrews 10​

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THEFURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Here's the Greek word for sanctify:
Strong's Concordance

hagiazó:to make holy, consecrate, sanctify​

Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Short Definition: make holy, sanctify
Definition: make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 37 hagiázō (from 40 /hágios, "holy") – to regard as special(sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify. See 40 (hagios).
[37 (hagiázō) means "to make holy, consecrate, sanctify; to dedicate, separate" (Abbott-Smith).]

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from hagios
Definition
to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
NASB Translation
hallowed (2), keep himself holy (1), sanctified (16), sanctifies (2), sanctify (7).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 37: ἁγιάζω

ἁγιάζω; 1 aorist ἡγίασα; passive (present ἁγιάζομαι; perfect ἡγίασμαι; 1 aorist ἡγιάσθην; a word for which the Greeks use ἁγίζειν, but very frequent in Biblical (as equivalent to קִדַשׁ, הִקְדִישׁ) and ecclesiastical writings; "to make ἅγιον, render or declare sacred or holy, consecrate". Hence, it denotes:1. to render or acknowledge to be venerable, to hallow: τό ὄνοματοῦ Θεοῦ, Matthew 6:9 (so of God, Isaiah 29:23; Ezekiel 20:41; Ezekiel 38:23; Sir. 33:4 (Sir. 36:4)); (Luke 11:2); τόν Χριστόν, 1 Peter 3:15 (R GΘεόν). Since the stamp of sacredness passes over from the holiness of God to whatever has any connection with God, ἁγιάζειν denotes
2. to separate from things profane and dedicate to God, to consecrateand so render inviolable;
a. things (πᾶν πρωτότοκον, τά ἀρσενικά, Deuteronomy 15:19; ἡμέραν, Exodus 20:8; οἶκον, 2 Chronicles 7:16, etc.): τόν χρυσόν, Matthew 23:17; τό δῶρον, Matthew 23:19; σκεῦος, 2 Timothy 2:21.
b. persons. So Christ is said by undergoing death to consecrate himself to God, whose will he in that way fulfills, John 17:19; God is said ἁγιάσαιChrist, i. e. to have selected him for his service (cf. ἀφορίζειν, Galatians 1:15) by having committed to him the office of Messiah, John 10:36, cf. Jeremiah 1:5; Sir. 36:12 (ἐξ αὐτῶν ἡγίασε, καί πρός αὐτόνἤγγισεν, of his selection of men for the priesthood); Sir. 45:4 Sir. 49:7. Since only what is pure and without blemish can be devoted and offered to God (Leviticus 22:20; Deuteronomy 15:21; Deuteronomy 17:1), ἁγιάζωsignifies
3. to purify (ἀπό τῶν ἀκαθαρσιῶν is added in Leviticus 16:19; 2 Samuel 11:4); and
a. to cleanse externally (πρός τήν τῆς σαρκός καθαρότητα), to purify levitically: Hebrews 9:13; 1 Timothy 4:5.
b. to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin: 1 Corinthians 6:11; Ephesians 5:26; Hebrews 10:10, 14, 29; Hebrews 13:12; Hebrews 2:11(equivalent to כִּפֶר, Exodus 29:33, 36); cf. Pfleiderer, Paulinismus, p. 340ff (English translation 2:68f).
c. to purify internally by reformation of soul: John 17:17, 19 (through knowledge of the truth, cf. John 8:32); 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 1 Corinthians 1:2 (ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ in the fellowship of Christ, the Holy One); Romans 15:16 (ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ imbued with the Holy Spirit, the divine source of holiness); Jude 1:1 (L T Tr WH ἠγαπημένοις (which see)); Revelation 22:11. In general, Christians are called ἡγιασμένοι (cf. Deuteronomy 33:3), as those who, freed from the impurity of wickedness, have been brought near to God by their faith and sanctity, Acts 20:32; Acts 26:18. In 1 Corinthians 7:14 ἁγιάζεσθαι is used in a peculiar sense of those who, although not Christians themselves, are yet, by marriage with a Christian, withdrawn from the contamination of heathen impiety and brought under the saving influence of the Holy Spirit displaying itself among Christians; cf. Neander at the passage.

Sanctified in this passage is hallowed, pure, set apart, holy.

Holy sinners? Hallowed sinners? Pure sinners? Sinners set apart by God?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..... CHRISTIANS!!!

Strong's, NASB, HELPS Word Studies, & Thayers Lexicon all agree!!!

Whoever is stating otherwise is WRONG!

As I already explained, the reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 seems to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart."

If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) which does not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but who has committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community was merely superficial (nominal Christian) and that he was not a genuine believer.

 

[stonesoffire]

would someone please rep rose for me?

rose is writing of the process of searching for biblical truth and also how the Holy Spirit will bring to our minds what we have read and studied.

I will not address that other nonsensical mystical hogwash because it does not agree with scripture

please please please people!

read the Bible! study the Bible! and ignore the nonsense begin spouted regarding being born with the Holy Spirit and He comes to life when we are saved

we are tripartate beings. the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us when we are saved.

I cannot stress enough the garbage regarding the mystical nonsense that borders on Gnosticism and hedges on teaching of demons

let's have the scripture that states we are born with the Holy Spirit. if it's in the Bible I would like to see it

let's have it and then I'll eat my feather pillow, make a video of it, and post it here

and I don't mean some mystical interpretation that belongs in a fortune teller's parlor being read from a cracked crystal ball that has serious cumulus clouds developing in it

And you didn't understand either. Not surprised.

Nice fruit.

 

[Stephen63]

[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

Paul answered Stephens question.

We (those born again) are not those who draw back and insult the grace of God, We are those who believe TO THE SAVING OF THE SOUL.

Paul is warning people among them who may claim to be part of the church, But had not yet took that complete step of faith..

A sinner can't draw back.

"CLAIMS" don't do anything for a sinner. A sinner is a sinner.

What spirit would say "there's __ types of sinners in the Bible"?

The same spirit that twists scripture to verify false doctrine.

A demonic spirit.

 

[stonesoffire]

The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. First Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9 is even stronger, stating that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation.

Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior.

SOURCE BUT REMEMBER THEIR SOURCE IS THE BIBLE

While this is true, I was addressing our spirit before the new birth.

 

[AllenW]

Here's an artists rendition of the "not by works thread".