Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest

The people in Matthew 7:21-23 will have works, but not the works that signify them as having been born again. If they did, Christ would not be turning them away as people he never knew:

"21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’" (Matthew 7:21-23 NASB)



Please make sure that none of us are guilty of trying to earn our way into the kingdom by doing works and explain to us why this is a works gospel:

19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

(Matthew 7:19-21,26 NASB)
I do not see how you can not see it

The people of matt 7 used their works as a basis for why Jesus should let them in, If they had faith in God and his work, they never would have boasted of their work, they would have boasted in Christs work.

They were not let in because they trusted in their deeds to make them righteous, and rejected the grace of God.

If you plan on standing before gOd and using your works as the reason God should let you in, or to defend yourself as to why God should let you in you will be in for the same answer.

Depart. FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU.

These people were NEVER SAVED, proven by the fact JESUS NEVER KNEW THEM, he could not say that to a person who was saved, then lost it. For he would be a liar.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,483
13,422
113
58
They use the term "faith working in love" as a means to get around the fact they teach salvation by works.
I often hear sugar coated double talk from works salvationists. For example -

"We are saved through faith as long as faith is properly defined, which includes works."

"It is works of obedience that help to save us, not works of the law or works of merit."

It amazes how certain people will say out of one side of their mouth that they don't teach salvation by works, then out of the other side of their mouth, they say we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works and will even say "these" works are what keeps us saved. :rolleyes:
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
They use the term "faith working in love" as a means to get around the fact they teach salvation by works.
I agree...religion always gets the things of God and the work of Christ backwards. Religion teaches us to try to achieve by what we do or don't do - what Christ has already done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

It is really a grace-nullifying practice that stops the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ from manifesting in our lives and operating like it was meant to.

Preach and teach Christ Himself and all that He has already done and this will supply the nutrients we need to walk out what Christ has already done in our new creation.

We are "living epistles" read by all men so we let our light ( which is Christ in us ) shine so that people may see the good works and bring glory to God. ( Ascribe goodness to God )

Matthew 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds
.
Hebrews 10:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:




“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."

We as sons and daughters of our Father participate in the "family business" of showing people the love and grace our father and Lord have for them.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Hi LoveGodForever...I believe well learned people in the Word can believe they know Scripture by heart so feel no need to go back and look at the Scriptures again...I don`t have a great amount of knowledge of the Word yet, but what i have found is that when i have thought i believe a Scripture for what it says, i re read it and get a completely different message from when i read it the first time, this showed me that what we read we must not just take the first meaning and leave it at that, once i re read, only when i know the Scripture has been written on my heart by the Holy Spirit can i walk on and learn some more, that is what the Holy Spirit has shown me any way, maybe that is why people twist Scriptures, because the real answer has not been written on their heart, it`s just my opinion for all of us...xox...
very wise

Acts 17:11

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

(Matthew 7:19-21,26 NASB)

This is to all of you that have been saying that the necessity of works in salvation is the vain attempt to save oneself. Explain how the above is a works gospel.
its a works gospel because they tried to use their woks as the reason the enter heaven,

gods people will do works, they do not need to use them as a reason "boast" to get to heaven,

not of works lest lest anyone should boast, period
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm still waiting for a verse from YOU that quotes Jesus saying that "works" are not necessary.

Also,,, .
You said that following the 10 commandments is not what makes one a saint.
Is there someone here who does NOT believe in Jesus?
No.
So, once again you encourage Christians to NOT follow God's moral law...
The commandments.

YOU, my dear young man, will have much to answer for.
God demands more from those who claim to teach His ways.
john 3, john 6, how many more do you want?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm afraid for all these people in this thread who are teaching Christians to take false comfort in a faith without works relationship with God. We've warned them, so they will have no excuse on the Day of Judgment when Christ holds them accountable for teaching his people it's okay to have a faith that does nothing.
well since no one is teaching that, you must be afraid for no one,

you people make mlaugh, you fight against an imaginary group of people (actually you fight against a lie about what let's preach you should bash Ames of yourself )
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
To everyone who has bought into the false comfort of the 'works-less faith' gospel presently gripping the church, just start acting on what you claim you have in you by virtue of your faith and test yourself to see if what you say is there really is there. A good place to start is here:
"47“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?" (Matthew 5:47 NASB)

Say 'hello' to that difficult co-worker or neighbor that you make a point of avoiding because they aren't nice. You'll be surprised at the avalanche of joy and life and liberty that will fill your soul and move you to more and more works of righteousness. One step in front of the other, just like Abraham. That's how the life of faith operates.

If you find you can't do this then acknowledge to God that maybe you don't have the salvation by faith in the forgiveness of God you think you do. And since you still have breath in your body it's not too late to have that faith and get truly saved. If you wait in your works-less dead faith until the Judgment to find out you didn't really have the faith that saves, well, it's too late to do anything about it then. That's why it's important to confirm your calling and election NOW, so if you find out you can't confirm your salvation by doing righteous work you'll have the opportunity to fix that before it's too late.
the only people saying Anyang about a workless faith is yourself and Fran and Stephen and your group,

again, your preaching to no one, I suggest you learn how to rad and comprehend what people say.
 
P

PHart

Guest
Hi J
I mean, if you care to really do this, then explain what BELIEVE means.
You'll find that it means OBEY.
Here's a link to a resource that shows how 'disobedience' and 'unbelief' are represented in scripture using the exact same Greek word: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G543&t=KJV

Disobedience and unbelief are intrinsically intertwined. That's why works must accompany salvation for you to be saved on the Day of Judgment. The one who says they are a believer in Christ, yet lives in disobedience is quite frankly and to the point, a liar. (I didn't say it, John said it.) And they will be lost on the Day of Judgment despite any confession of knowing Christ that they might make now, or on that Day. We've been warned, folks. The wise virgin will heed the warning and be prepared to meet the Bridegroom when He returns. The wise virgins keep their lamps filled with oil to the very end.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Must be hard if you guys can't sleep much. Least your putting your time to good use by helping others. Go read a book on maths or science or something. Works for me :)
hlping others do what? Learn how to earn salvation? Wow man..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
By looking up and reading and posting the various scriptures we've shared, this thread has made me even more astounded at how completely contrary the 'works-less faith' message is to what the Bible actually teaches. Clearly, the message in the Bible is to act on your faith, not take false comfort in doing nothing. I don't see any message of encouragement in the Bible to take comfort in a 'do nothing' faith. None at all. Quite the opposite.

I'm being honest. Visiting these scriptures we've been posting has made me realize even more how far from the message of the Bible the church has gone concerning this subject. It's scary.
dude, no one is teaches workless faith, do you not comprehend how foolish one looks when he or she keeps saying the same thing that is not true?

Is is your heart so ha d you can not see what others say anymore?
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
Here's a link to a resource that shows how 'disobedience' and 'unbelief' are represented in scripture using the exact same Greek word: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G543&t=KJV

Disobedience and unbelief are intrinsically intertwined. That's why works must accompany salvation for you to be saved on the Day of Judgment. The one who says they are a believer in Christ, yet lives in disobedience is quite frankly and to the point, a liar. (I didn't say it, John said it.) And they will be lost on the Day of Judgment despite any confession of knowing Christ that they might make now, or on that Day. We've been warned, folks. The wise virgin will heed the warning and be prepared to meet the Bridegroom when He returns. The wise virgins keep their lamps filled with oil to the very end.
And what does the oil represent?
Works?
No, absolutely not!
The oil is representative of the Holy Spirit!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I see it as believing God and letting him work in you. Then it's up to you to put your feet in the Red Sea to watch the waters part :)
which is what we all have been saying since day one,
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,483
13,422
113
58
Maybe you are in one of them?
Maybe you are?

The Gospel is the Word of God.
The Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

If you do not believe God's Word then you do not know the true Gospel.
If you do not know and BELIEVE the true Gospel (Romans 1:16) then you do not believe God's Word.
 
P

PHart

Guest
the only people saying Anyang about a workless faith is yourself and Fran and Stephen and your group,

again, your preaching to no one, I suggest you learn how to rad and comprehend what people say.
Then why do you people keep tearing us down?

Out one side of your mouths you say that truly saved people have works because they are born again (which we are saying). But then you say out the other side of your mouth those works aren't necessary because they are born again. You can't have it both ways.

We're simply saying the first argument: Born again people, by virtue of being born again, will have works to accompany their salvation. You 'seem' to agree, but then you turn right around and negate that by saying by virtue of being born again you don't have to have works. Worst of all, you people ignore the plain, understandable words of the Bible that explain how it is that you must have works to accompany your faith if you expect that faith to usher you into the kingdom on the Day of Wrath.

I blame the church for your duplicitous confusion. The church is passing this confusing deceitful teaching down generation to generation in it's seminaries. But I blame the individual member of the church themselves for not bowing to what the Bible actually says the truth is about this matter of works in salvation. It's disheartening to see people not give in to the word simply because they can't bear to be corrected.
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Did you see that post, by Meggido ,, I think ,,
About a preacher that actually said that we are not to change...
God wants us as we are...
And he accepts us as is.

Wish I could find it.

I'm getting an instant headache...
Is that preacher in here? That preacher is lost, but dos not represent one person in CC, s we should slam them in order to get peopl in cc on the right track? Name a person in CC who would agree with that preacher?
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0

What are the commandments of God in the New Covenant? What is the faith of Jesus - that He has redeemed us from the law. That He depended on His Father and now we too depend on Jesus Himself for all things. That all the Law , prophets and Psalms speak of Him.

Galatians 4:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"


Here is an excellent article addressing "Just what are the commandments of Jesus?"

( Hint: it has nothing to do with following the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way which was a "shadow" of things to come - but it has everything to do with the true Sabbath rest which is found in Christ Himself )

I like to use this site from time to time as it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. it also has a place at the bottom where people can ask questions. I have found I have learned much from that area too.

John 14:15 – The Commands of Jesus

If God loves us unconditionally, how do we account for those scriptures that link His love with our obedience, like this one:

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)

A legalist reads this backwards: “You will keep my commandments if you love me.”

In other words, we must prove our love for God by doing what He commands.

Commandment-keeping is our duty, a condition we must meet if we are to enjoy His love.

But someone who is walking in grace reads it just as Jesus said it. He understands that keeping His commands is a by-product of love.

Paul explains this in Romans 8:3-4, but let me give you an everyday example inspired by something I read.

"Here in New Zealand we have a big problem with domestic violence. Consequently, there are many laws governing the responsibilities of fathers. Break any of these laws and you might go to jail or have your kids taken away.

It’s a serious business. But to be honest, I couldn’t tell you what these laws are. I’ve never read them. Yet I can confidently declare that I am keeping every one of these laws.

How do I know? Because I love my kids. I don’t keep the laws to show the authorities that I love my kids and I don’t relate to my children on the basis of these laws. I relate to them on the basis of love and keeping the laws of the land flows naturally from that love relationship.

I know the laws serve a good purpose, but they weren’t written for me. They were written for fathers who don’t love their kids."

Similarly, the laws found in the Bible were not written for those who love Jesus (1 Tim 1:9). Contrary to what the legalist may tell you, keeping the laws to earn what He freely offers is a surefire sign that you don’t know the love of God.

A legalist reads the words of Jesus above and sees a threat. Do the commandments or else! But love makes no threats. Jesus is returning for a bride and it won’t be a shotgun wedding.

What are the commands of Jesus?

The next time someone tells you that you must keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love, ask them, “what are the commands of Jesus?”

They will probably respond with the greatest commandment which is, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul” (Mt 22:38). This is fine, I guess.

But if you insert that command into the phrase above it becomes, “If you love me, you will love me with all your heart, mind and soul,” which is kind of redundant.

If you read John 14:15 in context, you will see that on this occasion Jesus is referring to two specific commands. Here’s the first:

“A new command I give you: Love one another….” (Jn 13:34)

And here’s the second:

Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me… Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves” (Jn 14:1,11)

How can we be certain that these are His commandments? Because John – who was there when Jesus spoke these words – says so in one of his letters:

“And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.” (1 Jn 3:23)

What does it mean to keep His commands?

Lest we dilute His commandments to accommodate our experience, Jesus outlines His expectations of obedience for both. Here’s what He expects from the first:

“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (Jn 13:34)

How did Jesus love us? By laying down His life for us (Jn 15:3). That’s a high standard of love! Indeed, there is no greater love. And what are His expectations regarding the second commandment:

“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these…” (Jn 14:12)

Believe in Jesus and you will do the works of Jesus. Put it altogether and Jesus is saying this:

“If you love me, you will love one another as I have loved you and your faith in me will lead to miracles like I have been doing and greater miracles still.”

If you’ve been in any church for at least five years, you will know that Jesus’ first commandment is pretty much humanly impossible to keep, while the second commandment is definitely impossible.

So the next time someone tries to lay a heavy burden on you by telling you that you must keep Jesus’ commandments to earn God’s love, just ask them how many people they’ve raised from the dead!

When they look puzzled, tell them that Jesus commanded us to believe in Him and He said that those who did would do the same works He did and greater works besides!

Now that we begin to understand what Jesus wasn’t saying He wasn’t saying that we need to keep His commandments to prove our love – we’re ready to dig deeper into what He was saying.

That’s the subject of the next post. You won’t want to miss it. When you see what Jesus was promising His disciples and you, it’s going to blow you away!

Maybe you’ve been intimidated by John 14:15 and the other new covenant laws. If so, prepare to be set free. When you get a hold of the words of Jesus you’re going to be so pumped that you’ll want to frame them and hang them on your wall. Stay tuned!

Unquote:

Here is the link if anyone wants to look at the questions or to see the next post as he mentioned at the end of the article.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/03/john-14v15/

I HOPE EVERYONE READS THIS





Grace,,,

What's the difference between:

If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)

“You will keep my commandments if you love me.”


Please explain in more detail.
To me they sound the same...

IF you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
You WILL keep my commandments, IF you love me.

I mean, really, you're gettng pretty desperate!


Also, I get from your post that Jesus lied.

Also, you read too many links.

You're intimidated by John 14:15?

John 14:15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


How come?
I'm not.

I guess I'm perfect and NEVER SIN.
yeah. That must be it.
OR, Jesus just didn't know how to express Himself !!

I'll bet most persons on this thread ARE NOT intimidated by John 14:15.
Because they know whom they have BELIEVED on.
And they're doing their best to follow the Master's footsteps.

Instead of trying to convince Others that Jesus DOES NOT want to be followed.
Poor Jesus.
3 1/2 years wasted on persons who want to preach everything HE DID NOT.

Oh. BTW, can YOU come up with the verses I've been asking for?
NO?
Gee. I wonder why???
Maybe because THEY DON'T EXIST?


I point you, and Others, to 1 Timothy 4:1-16

Paul is telling Timothy that in later times some will fall away from the faith, leave the faith, abandon the faith. They will pay attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

The fallen away will listen to men who forbid marriage and teach abstinance of foods which are sacrificed. And which God means to be shared, and which God means for persons to be married.

Timothy, a pastor, is told to be nourished by the Word of God and sound doctrine. Paul tells him that Godliness is profitable for all things since it holds promise for now and the life to come.

Paul tells Timothy that it is for THIS that we LABOR AND STRIVE (verse 10) for we have fixed our hope on the Living God.

Timothy is to teach these things. Timothy is to show himself in an examplary way as to speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity.
Timothy is to be AN EXAMPLE.

Timothy is to take pain with these things, be absorbed in them, so that his PROGRESS may be EVIDENT to all.

VERSE 16: Paul tells Timothy to PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO HIMSELF AND TO HIS TEACHINGS. TO PERSEVERE IN ALL THINGS. FOR AS TIMOTHY DOES THIS, HE WILL INSURE SALVATION FOR BOTH HIMSELF AND THOSE WHO HEAR HIM.


It's truly a shame that Jesus, Paul, and every other writer in the N.T. EXHORTED us as to behavior and actions, and here some are --- teaching new Christians and Others, that it's NOT NECESSARY to do anything of what Jesus or Paul or Others stated
BECAUSE ALL WE NEED IS FAITH.

A LIE as anyone reading scripture will know and something for which these Teachers will have to answer to God.

I post this for YOU and those who teach as you do:


James 3:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a [a]stricter judgment.





**************************************************************


1 Timothy 4:1-16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Apostasy


1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

A Good Minister’s Discipline

6 In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.

7 But [c]have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness;

8 for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.

9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.

10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

11 [d]Prescribe and teach these things.

12 Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example [e]of those who believe.

13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.

14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the [f]presbytery.

15 Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all.

16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will [g]ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hi J

Dcon sure does get a lot of help!
this is why no one can discuss on cc, everyone thinks people who teach grace are helping D.C. Or EG or aGrace777

Th thought tha peoplcan not think on their own is f Reign t them.

But the above will not help him.
He knows the rules, you don't...
Here are the rules:

1. The verse or verses has to be JESUS saying that works are not necessary or required or however that could be said.
Or it has to be JESUS saying that He only requires us to believe in Him and nothing else is necessary for salvation.

2. If John 6:28-29 is used (as you have done) then along with the verse a complete explanation of what BELIEVE means.


So your post above, although very lovely and I do love scripture, will not be acceptable.
Sorry.

I mean, if you care to really do this, then explain what BELIEVE means.
You'll find that it means OBEY. So it won't work (John 6:28-29). But you could try...

I'm sure Dcon thanks you for the effort !

So posting scripture is not acceptable,

Fan I hav come to the conclusion you are not hear to try to convince people of anything, or to discuss the word of god, but to argue.

 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Is that preacher in here? That preacher is lost, but dos not represent one person in CC, s we should slam them in order to get peopl in cc on the right track? Name a person in CC who would agree with that preacher?
YOU.

Since you are not WILLING to say that WORKS ARE NECESSARY as Jesus said.

BTW, what are YOU here for ?
To teach that we are NOT to do what Jesus preached?