Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay, let me get this straight...

Works are not required for salvation, but if I don't have works I will not be saved on the Day of Judgment.

This is hilarious, lol! You're just trolling, right?

James 2, If we SAY WE HAVE FAITH, but have no works, our faiht is dead.

Yet Paul says we cna have works, and not have faith and not make it to heaven.

faith is the keyword, not works.

Who is the troll?

If faith PRODUCES works, then ALL Gods children will lwork

if I have no faith, I AM NOT SAVED..

please dude, Your about to be returned to ignore.. Your twisting of things is out of hand..

 

[UnderGrace]

So true EG, those that interpret scripture wrong and believe salvation can be lost, do not seem to understand that salvation is a status declared by God (justified).

They seem to believe, from what I have read, that salvation is partly based on their own work and therefore can be forsaken.

They also do not seem to understand that being justified is a singular event decreed by God.

The only work we do is commit the crimes.

Do you believe salvation can be lost?

then your depending on self. and not God to save you. If you depended on God. you would never think he could fail you and by it salvation/justification thus being lost.

I explained earlier why we lose faith in people. Show me where I got it wrong.

 

[Ariel82]

This is the only Greek word that I found that means obey and faith also...

Strong's Greek: 3982. πείθω (peithó) -- 53 Occurrences

3982. peithó ►
Strong's Concordance
peithó: to persuade, to have confidence
Original Word: πείθω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: peithó
Phonetic Spelling: (pi'-tho)
Short Definition: I persuade, urge
Definition: I persuade, urge.

Well going back to reading my books and things...check on y'all tomorrow.

This word has closer Greek connection between believe and OBEY.

Anyway it's been an interesting study...

 

[UnderGrace]

I love this teaching because it shuts the door on the belief that one needs works to be saved or that salvation is by works.

Even our free will/chose cannot undo the judges decree, although some will argue this as well.

God is not a God who is defeated.

If you are dead in sin, you are dead because the court of God has declared you guilty. and passed judgment on you.

If you are saved, You have been justified, a legal term which means declared innocent, or righteous.

If your not justified, Your not saved, your dead in sin

if your justified, you have been declared righteous, this have been saved from the debt and penalty of sin.

You can not have one apart from the other.

as an example,

A man charged with murder is in danger of having to pay for that murder, a man justified of that crime, has been saved from having to pay for that crime, He has been declared righteous, or innocent of that crime.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Okay, let me get this straight...

Works are not required for salvation, but if I don't have works I will not be saved on the Day of Judgment.

This is hilarious, lol! You're just trolling, right?

just a quick question
(only 90% serious... not being a jerk)



does this count out quadriplegic who can only listen but not speak?


or "death bed conversions"


maybe a life long sinner on death row who tries to turn to Jesus full heartedly in the chair

or maybe someone who during the act of commiting suicide sees their mistake.... and even though they regret what they just did its too late


or even the thief on the cross


i DO agree when the Holy spirit does work in us
and we are renewed
there will be drastic changes in ones life


there IS such a thing as a dead faith

there WILL be those who call Jesus Lord but will be liars....

but scriptures make it pretty clear

its HIM not ourselfs who make salvation possible


sometimes i feel like this who 1200+ pages is semantics

other times i can see why there is a divide...

 

[UnderGrace]

I love the biblical concept of being persuaded (peitho)

The power of persuasion is very strong indeed.

This word has closer Greek connection between believe and OBEY.

Anyway it's been an interesting study...

 

[Stephen63]

I might differ with a few people on this thread with what I'm about to say. And that's perfectly okay, iron sharpens iron.

But, I personally see and believe that the focus of Scriptures about Salvation isn't to be saved, but to call out to Him as Lord.

As I look at salvation Scriptures I notice a pattern, "if you call out to the Lord you shall be saved."

Or, "If you confess Him as Lord".

Or those who "believe" in Me, this word for believe (pisteau) in the Greek is very closely linked with trust or being persuaded. From my research pisteau is a lot about which "voice is more real to you" who are you being lead by Him or the world. Consider Peter walking on water.

In essence I believe Salvation is a result of calling Him our Lord. And the moment we call Him Lord we declare we will trust in Him. And everything is a fruit of what He does in us, we die to the old, and live to Him. He gets the glory.

Anybody can call Jesus Lord without following Him. So, no, calling Him Lord without obedience is nothing but lip-service.

Luke 6: 46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47“Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49“But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”

 

[UnderGrace]

Again ...ohhh the irony.

Thank you

Thats like saying we do not rise to the standard of a good jew in christs day.

I would take that as a compliment. The good jews rejected grace, and had Christ crucified.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yup, calling Him Lord does not mean we are justified, we are saved when we are justified by God ...His decree not ours!!

Anybody can call Jesus Lord without following Him. So, no, calling Him Lord without obedience is nothing but lip-service.

Luke 6: 46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47“Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49“But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Okay, let me get this straight...

Works are not required for salvation, but if I don't have works I will not be saved on the Day of Judgment.

This is hilarious, lol! You're just trolling, right?

ohhhhh i missed the "let me get this straight" part when i asked the 10% rhetorical question

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Makes total sense and I stand side by side with you.
Even in Jesus we can get it wrong and I'm sure this will raise a few heckles but we will get it wrong.
If we never got it wrong then there would have been no reason for Paul to write what he did.

But to me he is saying, build on the foundation of Christ, that should be your focus but if you get it wrong you are still saved.

I actually fell foul of this and I know of others who do but for a different reason than mine.

For me it was like work hard, do what you are told and if you work hard enough you are ok.
No one ever told me that Jesus was my foundation, so I built my own foundation which was me and hoped Jesus would cover that, notice I say hoped he would.

Thats what I consider works orientated gospel.

On the flip side I have know of people who go to the other extreme.
Use it as an excuse to cover sin.

Could you expound on your second paragraph Bill? (I think I understand what you are saying.)
Good morning, by the way! I have been enjoying your posts for a few days here now. I swoon when a see a sis or bro bearing offenses and walking well. I adore them when I see my Lord in them.

 

[notmyown]

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12-13)

if we understand salvation is not of human decision...

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. (Gal 4:4-5)

...and we understand part of this 'fullness of time' had to do with Roman occupation of Israel, and exactly what Roman law pertaining to adoption was, this discussion might be done.

 

[FranC]

Let's be honest, we both know he would.
He is probably assembling his brass band and preparing his royal regalia.

Oh yeah!
How long have we been searching for him?
He's that quiet, powerful type.
No brass bands necessary.
Everyone will know when he gets here.

 

[Stephen63]

Rather bold remarks.
I haven't read anything you've written that has touched my heart.

Fence jumpers are unstable as water. With no anointing.

 

[Ariel82]

Oh yeah!
How long have we been searching for him?
He's that quiet, powerful type.
No brass bands necessary.
Everyone will know when he gets here.

Are we talking about Ralph or Jesus?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12-13)

if we understand salvation is not of human decision...

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. (Gal 4:4-5)

...and we understand part of this 'fullness of time' had to do with Roman occupation of Israel, and exactly what Roman law pertaining to adoption was, this discussion might be done.

and we should understand, My works, lack of works, amount of works, have absolutely nothing to do with our eternal destination. and are an afterthought. Thus any discussion which pertains to eternal life or being saved will be void of talk of works.

 

[BillG]

Could you expound on your second paragraph Bill? (I think I understand what you are saying.)
Good morning, by the way! I have been enjoying your posts for a few days here now. I swoon when a see a sis or bro bearing offenses and walking well. I adore them when I see my Lord in them.

Hi thank you for your kind words.

What I am trying to say is that everything we do, we are should be based on Jesus and what he has done for us, precious things that will stand the fire when tested.

We can however do and be things that are selfish or with the wrong motive and therefore not built on Jesus. That being the case these works will not stand the test but will be burnt up.

We however are still saved.

I hope that makes sense.

Enjoying getting to know you.

Bill

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If you mean trust as an act of faith, a singular event, than yes I agree, you are trusting the truth of what Jesus has done and said and that is saving faith/trust in the work of Christ.

Again this is separate from abiding in Christ, that is part of the dynamic relationship with Jesus after being saved.

We trust in what He says is true, from faith to faith, abiding in Him as a source of grace, love and peace.

Okay, I see what you are defending now. It's okay. So many godly men, dead now, whose books I have read and who helped me immensely, fall in one camp or the other. I love them all and they have BOTH helped me to the building up of my faith as I run. I realize that is rare, at least in here, but I have seen men in both sides of this who walk by the Spirit very fruitfully.

 

[BillG]

Oh yeah!
How long have we been searching for him?
He's that quiet, powerful type.
No brass bands necessary.
Everyone will know when he gets here.

You mean because of his smell.

A bit like silent but deadly?

 

[Ariel82]

Wait....just reread this article and the author is AGAINST telling people to OBEY the gospel but argues that we should instead tell THEM TO BELIEVE the gospel....

Obey or Believe? It's All Greek to Me! | Worldview Everlasting

"But you will undermine the Gospel by trying to “obey” it when the Gospel itself insists you can do no such thing, but must rather shut up, stop trying to self-justify and simply believe."