Not By Works
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A
Hi Ariel,
What a superb question that deserves a clap of hands!
I'm sure we could all come up with many scriptures that speak of what we are now that we're born-again.
Some of us don't realize what we are, who we are in Christ, therefore we don't act on it. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
We need to read God's word and believe what He says we are. And walk it out in the new man, the new creation we are .......allowing the Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth.
We are a new creature in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17
We have a new self created in righteousness and holiness of truth in the likeness of God.
Ephesians 4:24
We've been given a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, patience as we bear with one another and forgive each other. And we have love that's the perfect bond of unity. Colossians 3:12-14
Our old self is crucified with Christ so that we're no longer slaves to sin. Romans 6:6
We have a new man, we're being renewed to a true knowledge according to Christ. Colossians 3:10
We put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the fleshly lusts. Romans 13:14
We are being transformed into the glory of Jesus, from glory to glory - like Moses when his face shone brightly when unveiled. We are a mirror for the world to see the glory of the Lord. When they see us, they see Jesus. 2 Corinthians 3:18
We're a branch that receives life from the vine and bears much fruit; by abiding we love Jesus and obey his commands. As long as we're abiding we'll always be fruitful. John 15: 1-10
Because we're born of God we are overcomes and gain victory over the world through our faith. 1 John 5:4
Our inner man is renewed each and every day, therefore we don't lose heart. 2 Corinthians 4:16
We don't keep on sinning as we did in our old life because God's seed abides in us and we can't continue on in a sinful lifestyle because we're born of God. 1 John 3:9
We have a new heart and a new spirit, no longer a heart of stone, but a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 11:19
Through the Holy Spirit we are strengthened with power in our inner man. Ephesians 3:16
We're steadfast and patient being strengthened by His powerful glorious might. Colossians 1:11
We have peace that passes our understanding that guards our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, we have the true knowledge of Christ that gives wisdom in every circumstance of life, we have the fullness of joy that's overflowing, unending forgiveness, abundant life in Him, power to do what He's called us to do, patience as we wait on Him, kindness towards one another and towards our enemy, and etc, etc etc.
We could all add to this list and we'd be bringing praise, honor and blessings to the Lord beyond measure as we walk them out in His truth and in His power that He abundantly bestows upon us. Glory Hallelujah! Jesus has set us free!!!
What a superb question that deserves a clap of hands!
I'm sure we could all come up with many scriptures that speak of what we are now that we're born-again. Some of us don't realize what we are, who we are in Christ, therefore we don't act on it. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
We need to read God's word and believe what He says we are. And walk it out in the new man, the new creation we are .......allowing the Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth.
We are a new creature in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17
We have a new self created in righteousness and holiness of truth in the likeness of God.
Ephesians 4:24
We've been given a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, patience as we bear with one another and forgive each other. And we have love that's the perfect bond of unity. Colossians 3:12-14
Our old self is crucified with Christ so that we're no longer slaves to sin. Romans 6:6
We have a new man, we're being renewed to a true knowledge according to Christ. Colossians 3:10
We put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the fleshly lusts. Romans 13:14
We are being transformed into the glory of Jesus, from glory to glory - like Moses when his face shone brightly when unveiled. We are a mirror for the world to see the glory of the Lord. When they see us, they see Jesus. 2 Corinthians 3:18
We're a branch that receives life from the vine and bears much fruit; by abiding we love Jesus and obey his commands. As long as we're abiding we'll always be fruitful. John 15: 1-10
Because we're born of God we are overcomes and gain victory over the world through our faith. 1 John 5:4
Our inner man is renewed each and every day, therefore we don't lose heart. 2 Corinthians 4:16
We don't keep on sinning as we did in our old life because God's seed abides in us and we can't continue on in a sinful lifestyle because we're born of God. 1 John 3:9
We have a new heart and a new spirit, no longer a heart of stone, but a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 11:19
Through the Holy Spirit we are strengthened with power in our inner man. Ephesians 3:16
We're steadfast and patient being strengthened by His powerful glorious might. Colossians 1:11
We have peace that passes our understanding that guards our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, we have the true knowledge of Christ that gives wisdom in every circumstance of life, we have the fullness of joy that's overflowing, unending forgiveness, abundant life in Him, power to do what He's called us to do, patience as we wait on Him, kindness towards one another and towards our enemy, and etc, etc etc.
We could all add to this list and we'd be bringing praise, honor and blessings to the Lord beyond measure as we walk them out in His truth and in His power that He abundantly bestows upon us. Glory Hallelujah! Jesus has set us free!!!
We are called to be a part of His Body, joined and working as one. and our bodies are holy temples that house His Holy spirit.
Hi gb9,
I agree with you on Matthew, but as I read Galatians I don't understand why you think it's not speaking of sin. At least indirectly.
I haven't gone back in the thread yet to find the beginning of this conversation. That's one thing that's time consuming on this thread. Other threads you just have to sift through a few posts, but this thread might be pages to find what you're looking for.
Galatians 5:1-9
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.
~~~~~~~
What I see is that Paul is commending them because they began in the faith really well and continued on in the faith until those sneaky guys brought in false teachings and told them they had to be circumcised.
So Paul asks the Galatians who it was that hindered them from the truth. You see, if you read all of Galatians, you'll find that it wasn't one or two that were being deceive, but almost the whole church was falling for this false teaching of circumcision. So it starts off with a few (a little leaven).
And that's what I think Paul meant when he said a little leaven, leavens the whole lump. I believe that Paul is telling them that they've all been deceived and the leaven of false teaching has permeated the whole lot of them.
The little leaven is the false teaching that to be saved, one had to be circumcised. The false teaching caused them all to believe and lie and sin against God.
So the little leaven caused sin. The deception of exchanging the truth for a lie as satan is so good at doing was sinful. It reminds me of Eve in the garden when satan came along to deceive her and she believed his lie. And so she sinned and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Was it sinful for satan to deceive Eve with that lie? Yes. And was the lie he told, sin? Yes.
The leaven caused the Galatians to sin, so the false teaching is sinful as well. So are we splitting hairs here maybe?
A
Our spirits are born again and allows us to cry out with the Holy spirit "abba father"that is what is meant by first fruits of the spirit,
See below..our spirits have been born again but we await the hope of our resurrected bodies uponJesus return.
****
Romans 8
14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sonsf of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Future Glory
18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved.
See below..our spirits have been born again but we await the hope of our resurrected bodies uponJesus return.
****
Romans 8
14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sonsf of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Future Glory
18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved.
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U
I saw a small glimpse of the kingdom when I was born again, because I felt the Holy Spirit come into my life in a powerful way.
Believe in His sacrifice for you completely, there is no need to strive for salvation.
This is the Good News...Believe it, is absolutely and completely true because Jesus said so!!!
Exactly what I said we do not strive for salvation, Amen
Yet....
The branch does not strive it receives, it cannot control if the rain will fall, if it will be fertilized, nor how much sunshine it receives.
It can only stand there and be catered to. It cannot even really control its own fruitfulness. It can only grow and produce in its season.
Our job is to be persuaded, to remember who we are in Christ (not strive) and have faith in what He has done and what He has promised to do.
The soil we have sprung from is salvation through Christ crucified. He died for our sins while we were yet sinners
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
These qualities come from remembering who were are in Christ
The people who think God is a heavy task master will never tell us of the great works they have done for God's kingdom; notwithstanding, they would have fallen from grace if God should ever have raised the bar for them. The message they bring is performance based salvation. A wise person once told me; if you want to worry about losing your salvation based upon your good works, go ahead be my guest.
Thank you, UnderGrace, that is very kind of you to say
As I said, it was not my plan I had been communicating with a young man on myspace and youtube who did a really awesome rendition of Mason Williams' Classical Gas; he was having difficulty dealing with some of the unwarranted criticism, and in the process of supporting him, I began to wonder how people got to know each other on such sites, because I was largely unaware of there being discussion boards...
As I said, it was not my plan
I had been communicating with a young man on myspace and youtube who did a really awesome rendition of Mason Williams' Classical Gas; he was having difficulty dealing with some of the unwarranted criticism, and in the process of supporting him, I began to wonder how people got to know each other on such sites, because I was largely unaware of there being discussion boards...
U
Wow you are so right, seeing God as heavy task master was something I moved in and out of for so long and it is not who He is and I know He does not want us so view Him that way, especially in light of the cross and what He did on our behalf.
Performance based salvation is a snarly web filled with ongoing disappointment at one's one failings if one is really honest with themselves.
Ultimately they will believe as they will...I like that line ....be my guest. I need to remember that.
I like your new picture, it is very peaceful
Performance based salvation is a snarly web filled with ongoing disappointment at one's one failings if one is really honest with themselves.
Ultimately they will believe as they will...I like that line ....be my guest. I need to remember that.
I like your new picture, it is very peaceful
your the one speaking heresies pal .....he set us up in his kingdom does not mean we have enetered does it ?..
Have you entered yet ?.. what does it look like ?..
keep your heressies to your self pal...
Colossians 1:13-14
Colossians 1:13-14The Message (MSG)
[SUP]13-14 [/SUP]God rescued us from dead-end alleys and dark dungeons. He’s set us up in the kingdom of the Son he loves so much, the Son who got us out of the pit we were in, got rid of the sins we were doomed to keep repeating.
Have you entered yet ?.. what does it look like ?..
keep your heressies to your self pal...
Colossians 1:13-14
Colossians 1:13-14The Message (MSG)
[SUP]13-14 [/SUP]God rescued us from dead-end alleys and dark dungeons. He’s set us up in the kingdom of the Son he loves so much, the Son who got us out of the pit we were in, got rid of the sins we were doomed to keep repeating.
I saw a small glimpse of the kingdom when I was born again, because I felt the Holy Spirit come into my life in a powerful way.
Believe in His sacrifice for you completely, there is no need to strive for salvation.
This is the Good News...Believe it, is absolutely and completely true because Jesus said so!!!
Exactly what I said we do not strive for salvation, Amen
Yet....
The branch does not strive it receives, it cannot control if the rain will fall, if it will be fertilized, nor how much sunshine it receives.
It can only stand there and be catered to. It cannot even really control its own fruitfulness. It can only grow and produce in its season.
Our job is to be persuaded, to remember who we are in Christ (not strive) and have faith in what He has done and what He has promised to do.
The soil we have sprung from is salvation through Christ crucified. He died for our sins while we were yet sinners
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
These qualities come from remembering who were are in Christ
, that`s a valuable lesson many could learn from you...xox...
A
Colossians 1:13 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
New Living Translation
For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son,
English Standard Version
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Berean Study Bible
He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,
Berean Literal Bible
who has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,
New American Standard Bible
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
King James Bible
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
New Living Translation
For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son,
English Standard Version
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Berean Study Bible
He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,
Berean Literal Bible
who has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,
New American Standard Bible
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
King James Bible
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
W
your first and most greivious error is the unbiblical concept known as payment for sin..Of a truth I tell you there is no payment for sin, for the wages of sin is death..The payment for sin myth was invented by the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas, and then built upon by Luther, and Calvin some 300 years later....simple logic presupposes that if a debt is paid for, it cannot later be forgiven, nor can mercy be applied. Example: If someone pays off your credit card the bank cannot forgive your debt because there is no debt left to forgive. You will find this truth in the parable of the unforgiving servant....nobody paid for his sin debt it was all forgiven by the king, but he in turn could not forgive his own debtors, so the king revoked His forgiveness and cast that evil man into prison. sidenote: it doesn't sound like OSAS to me......Anyway what in fact happened, is that Jesus atoning works justified God's mercy, (it did not satisfy God's wrath). So, God the Father could now dispense the mercy that HE always desired to give through the covenant of reconciliation, whereby Jesus purchased our souls at Calvary with His blood.
Covenant theology has all but been forgotten in the annuls of human history over the last 500 years. This new covenant is what Hebrews 9 is all about. However, the payment for sin Penal Substitution myth has blinded the minds of 100s of millions looking for a flesh pleasing gospel that allows for the covenant to be broken, yet still enter into the kingdom. Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness but its still pie in the sky when you die in the sweet bye and bye...
Jesus finished the needful works of reconciliation through the conditions of God's new covenant, Heb. 9. Whereby man through repentance could now come to the mercy seat of God (Christ our propitiation), and be reconciled back to God's favour through the baptisms of repentance for the remission of past sins...Its not about accepting Jesus, but rather the commandment to repent and believe/obey the gospel from heart purity. In actuality its God who accepts use after we have come clean with Him by preparing our heart in repentance, and then gives the answer of the tongue if the guile has been removed, (the seed that falls on good soil).....The preparation of the heart belongs to man, and the answer of thee tongue is of God, Proverbs 16-1. ..................dig deep and be blessed in God's truth, not the old wine and tiresome traditions of men...
Covenant theology has all but been forgotten in the annuls of human history over the last 500 years. This new covenant is what Hebrews 9 is all about. However, the payment for sin Penal Substitution myth has blinded the minds of 100s of millions looking for a flesh pleasing gospel that allows for the covenant to be broken, yet still enter into the kingdom. Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness but its still pie in the sky when you die in the sweet bye and bye...
Jesus finished the needful works of reconciliation through the conditions of God's new covenant, Heb. 9. Whereby man through repentance could now come to the mercy seat of God (Christ our propitiation), and be reconciled back to God's favour through the baptisms of repentance for the remission of past sins...Its not about accepting Jesus, but rather the commandment to repent and believe/obey the gospel from heart purity. In actuality its God who accepts use after we have come clean with Him by preparing our heart in repentance, and then gives the answer of the tongue if the guile has been removed, (the seed that falls on good soil).....The preparation of the heart belongs to man, and the answer of thee tongue is of God, Proverbs 16-1. ..................dig deep and be blessed in God's truth, not the old wine and tiresome traditions of men...
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