Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

It is written the Just shall live by Faith... and it is written that Faith without works is dead.



Many use verses that are teaching against the works of the circumcision..

The good works that come by believing and being grafted in branches of the True vine are good fruit that come by Grace through Faith.


The Lord will judge His people.

Context.........

Paul said a man is justified by faith without works in Romans....James is speaking of a man's faith being seen before MEN....

Paul-->Romans-->men justified before GOD BY FAITH ALONE

James-->SHOW ME YOUR FAITH BY YOUR WORKS-->before MEN OUR FAITH THAT JUSTIFIES BEFORE GOD is seen in our works.....

they do not contradict each other....and it is faith alone that justifies a man before God!

 

[dcontroversal]

Where's the honesty there when you haven't even shown just a single verse that say's FAITH ALONE SAVES & ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED?

YOU CANNOT ADD ANYTHING TO GOD'S WORD.

Look...you guys who push works can do nothing but accuse like this post here...I gave you 4 sets that prove salvation is by faith...go work your way and see how that WORKS out for you...I trust Jesus and his word....He said if you believe you are saved...there is not one verse which states our works save...yet Paul states clearly in Galatians 1 and 3...to embellish faith with works to gain, keep or embellish salvation is a gospel of a different kind with no power to save, double cursed and ALL WHO PUSH IT, believe it are fools and bewitched!

 

[loveme1]

Verse 6 speaks for itself and speaks of positional righteousness and sanctification found in Christ based upon faith.

Verse 6 speaks for itself?

a little void of the line upon line precept upon precept....


if you read read it in full it would give the answer...

and i I pray many here who seek will not be ignorant of the whole Truth.

 

[loveme1]

Context.........

Paul said a man is justified by faith without works in Romans....James is speaking of a man's faith being seen before MEN....

Paul-->Romans-->men justified before GOD BY FAITH ALONE

James-->SHOW ME YOUR FAITH BY YOUR WORKS-->before MEN OUR FAITH THAT JUSTIFIES BEFORE GOD is seen in our works.....

they do not contradict each other....and it is faith alone that justifies a man before God!

James 2



My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.




The Royal law is given by the Messiah in His Testimony.


We are judged by the law of liberty.

 

[Grace777x70]

You can mock if you will. But Sons are not the sheep.

Maybe we are missing something or not understanding the controversy? I have not been following all the posts so I could have missed things.

In the analogy that Jesus gave concerning "animals" in the kingdom to be put on the right and on the left at the end of the age are called goats and sheep. Jesus is the Shepherd. There are other under shepherds in the body of Christ given to us as gifts. The analogy of being sheep is true.

I do agree 100% that the Lord wants us to grow up in Him as full sons/daughters to conduct the family business with Him to show the love and grace that they have towards people.

This growing up will only come from growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus. This only comes from the accurate preaching and teaching on Christ Himself and all that He has done.

There is no greater revelation to be had other than to know the Father and the Lord Jesus for who they truly are.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:28-32 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

[SUP]29 [/SUP] "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;

[SUP]30 [/SUP] and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

[SUP]31 [/SUP] "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

 

[loveme1]

Look...you guys who push works can do nothing but accuse like this post here...I gave you 4 sets that prove salvation is by faith...go work your way and see how that WORKS out for you...I trust Jesus and his word....He said if you believe you are saved...there is not one verse which states our works save...yet Paul states clearly in Galatians 1 and 3...to embellish faith with works to gain, keep or embellish salvation is a gospel of a different kind with no power to save, double cursed and ALL WHO PUSH IT, believe it are fools and bewitched!

The Gospel Teaches us what works we are to do.. we are to be perfect and righteous... I believe it.

Paul in Gal 1-3 is teaching the New Testament in place of the Old Testament.

call those who believe the New Testament fools and bewitched.. but blame not Paul or misuse his writings... it is your emotions and conclusion..

You push your belief with much hate for those who have Believed the Messiah... and you have many who believe as you do... according to verses that you wrestle with.

The power of GOD makes me content to believe to the saving of my soul.

 

[Seohce]

Look...you guys who push works can do nothing but accuse like this post here...I gave you 4 sets that prove salvation is by faith...go work your way and see how that WORKS out for you...I trust Jesus and his word....He said if you believe you are saved...there is not one verse which states our works save...yet Paul states clearly in Galatians 1 and 3...to embellish faith with works to gain, keep or embellish salvation is a gospel of a different kind with no power to save, double cursed and ALL WHO PUSH IT, believe it are fools and bewitched!

Where did i accuse here? You said you gave 4 sets that prove salvation is by faith, did they say that Faith ALONE saves? Was that intentional or just a typo error?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, I think I might see what the problem is . Maybe you all have it worked out by now too since I am behind.

I am looking before new birth. Unworthy. In your post here, it sounds like you mean after the new birth. I can see this as when the divine image is formed in the body...and we are actually One with Him in His presence. We will share as the Sons of God.

Now this might be a new thought to others...but its what Jesus died for and brought Sonship to men.

It s also in context of what we are discussing, if we are discussing with a person who thinks he or she is worthy based on how good the are, we need to explain to them, we are only worthy in Christ, worthy enough to him he died for us, but on our own, apart from Christ, we are unworthy, bcause we still fall short of Gods glory.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes indeed one can not accomplish having a pure heart of themselves,"for the heart is deceitful and out from it proceedeth,lies,murderers,and fornicators",only through Jesus can one(aside from children)be even remotely "Pure of Heart"!

Yes, and as Jeremiah says, the heart is decieptful above all things, and desperately wicked, who can know it?

 

[Grace777x70]

The Gospel Teaches us what works we are to do.. we are to be perfect and righteous... I believe it.

Paul in Gal 1-3 is teaching the New Testament in place of the Old Testament.

call those who believe the New Testament fools and bewitched.. but blame not Paul or misuse his writings... it is your emotions and conclusion..

You push your belief with much hate for those who have Believed the Messiah... and you have many who believe as you do... according to verses that you wrestle with.

The power of GOD makes me content to believe to the saving of my soul.

The true gospel is that Jesus alone makes us perfect and righteous.

Get this backwards and we create another religion despite using words like Jesus, word of God, Testimony of Jesus,...etc

Works-based belief systems of which every religion in the world is based on always get the gospel backwards and try to create and maintain salvation by what they do or don't do.

In it - the gospel - the righteousness of God is revealed. That is the foundational truth that all the Christian life is built on.

We don't build or maintain our own righteousness like in the Old Testament. We live in the New Covenant now.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Good works are simply a natural by-product of the life of Christ manifesting in us as He is bearing His fruit in and through us so that others can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

God does His work in and through us and then rewards us for the works that we participate in with Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and just what reason does a Moderator need to be "pestered"?They have enough to deal with without people sending in reports or suggesting someone needs to be reported,a novel Idea would be for people to "manage" what they can "before" calling on a Moderator for action of some sort,and have "Truth" will out,
unless a "Serious" matter requires their attention and you make an "accurate" and "mature" report as in "1" Report on a matter,sending in multiple reports on the same "matter" only makes their job "tougher",doing what "we" can to sustain "Peace" on this site is just as important to the overall welfare of the entire site,because Moderators have to "follow rules too" they aren't sitting around waiting to just up and ban someone like some kind of game,they must "know" of a matter,"consider" what actions "Can" be taken,and what overall "Good" will come of their action,so please "All" of you who "like" being at this site,and "appreciate" what peace Moderators do their best to keep here,
consider their "Feelings" and what they must "Abide by",and what "You" can do to "Help" them "Keep" peace here,if we do what we can to maintain order,then it makes it "easier" for them to "maintain order",so please make all your reports on a matter "Only" Once and make it "Clear" "Accurate" and as "brief" as possible so that any "matter" you bring to their attention can be "looked into" and possibly acted upon,thank you for reading and I hope everyone will "Learn" and "apply" all that I have shared in this post,God bless you all!

it's all good bro, let the mods enter,, I have left it to them also, as I said a few days ago. If anyone has done anything wrong the mods will let them know, I am sure after what happened they are keeping a close eye in here anyway

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I haven't a clue I've been a devout believer for only about 4 to 5 years,all I can figure is that the Holy spirit enlightens me to many answers.

I agree, to me I see it this way, in response the the conversation,

1. I do not see that talking about belief, or its definition
2. To me, That is speaking to people who are already saved, and have had their heart purified by God,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can mock if you will. But Sons are not the sheep.

What do do you mean sis?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OT are sheep. Jesus came for Sons. It's clear in the NT that we are Children of Light and I posted the scriptures. It's a new way..a new day.

We are not Israel but the body of Christ. That is something never seen before on earth. And is an interlude between Israel old, and Israel new. The nation I mean. We the body...children of Light, are about to do something. What that is, I am not yet sure or I mean I am not sure how it's going to happen.

But, when it does...It's all about Israel again.

We are overcomers...and sheep do not overcome anything. They have to be "watched".

Also, I believe we are in the time of the Virgins..

we are calld many things sin,

sons, sheep, children, heirs, ambassadors, etc.

 

[loveme1]

The true gospel is that Jesus alone makes us perfect and righteous.

Get this backwards and we create another religion despite using words like Jesus, word of God, Testimony of Jesus,...etc

Works-based belief systems of which every religion in the world is based on always get the gospel backwards and try to create and maintain salvation by what they do or don't do.

In it - the gospel - the righteousness of God is revealed. That is the foundational truth that all the Christian life is built on.

We don't build or maintain our own righteousness like in the Old Testament. We live in the New Covenant now.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Good works are simply a by-product of the life of Christ manifesting in us as He is bearing His fruit in and through us so that tothers can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

Now the intent of the Gospel is that our Lord makes us perfect and reconciled with GOD.. the Gospel Is His Testament.

We are to provoke one and other to love and good works... Is that not Taught by the Messiah in His Testament.. love and good works.. of course it is.




Hebrews 10

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And havingan high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. 35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.



37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.










We are to do the will of GOD to recieve the promise..

There is reward for confidence...

We draw not back to perdition.. but believe to the saving of our soul.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have to separate yourself from the nation of Israel. We the body are not Israel.

Separate the Word as to who the body is, and what the nation is.

We are one with Israel sis, not separate, we will be married to the son of an Israelite mother, and the messiah of Israel one day,

amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

no view sir Im just here busting your guys chops....yes Im a russian by birth now a US navy veteran.

Welcome bro, us navy/coast guard retired here! That you for your service,

 

[Grace777x70]

Now the intent of the Gospel is that our Lord makes us perfect and reconciled with GOD.. the Gospel Is His Testament.

We are to provoke one and other to love and good works... Is that not Taught by the Messiah in His Testament.. love and good works.. of course it is.




Hebrews 10

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And havingan high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. 35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.



37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.










We are to do the will of GOD to recieve the promise..

There is reward for confidence...

We draw not back to perdition.. but believe to the saving of our soul.

Of course we are to encourage one another unto good works. This is not for eternal salvation as Christ's work alone on the cross and resurrection has obtained our eternal redemption Heb. 9:12. We don't save ourselves. He is the Savior.

The willful sinning in Heb. 10:26 is the rejection of Christ's sacrifice for sins as the author of "Hebrews" was speaking to Jewish people that were going to the temple to sacrifice animals instead of having faith in Christ's finished work after hearing or obtaining the "knowledge" of Christ.

There is a vast difference between "receiving Christ Himself " and the "knowledge" of Him. We must believe!

Notice the author said - "But we are not of those that draw back from Christ and thus are saved."

I firmly believe in encouraging others to good works. I have written many times about it and I will post it again fro the new viewers of the thread.

We "get to do good works and we are participating in the family business of telling and showing others of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved.

That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.

An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12

Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.

This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.

As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8

This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.

Without Him - we can do nothing.

It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )

It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )

It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.

All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.

The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.

If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.

But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".

Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

 

[blue_ladybug]

...............

 

[loveme1]

Of course we are to encourage one another unto good works. This is not for eternal salvation as Christ's work alone on the cross and resurrection has obtained our eternal redemption Heb. 9:12. We don't save ourselves. He is the Savior.

The willful sinning in Heb. 10:26 is the rejection of Christ's sacrifice for sins as the author of "Hebrews" was speaking to Jewish people that were going to the temple to sacrifice animals instead of having faith in Christ's finished work after hearing or obtaining the "knowledge" of Christ.

There is a vast difference between "receiving Christ Himself " and the "knowledge" of Him. We must believe!

Notice the author said - "But we are not of those that draw back from Christ and thus are saved."

I firmly believe in encouraging others to good works. I have written many times about it and I will post it again fro the new viewers of the thread.

We "get to do good works and we are participating in the family business of telling and showing others of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved.

That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.

An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12

Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.

This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.

As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8

This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.

Without Him - we can do nothing.

It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )

It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )

It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.

All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.

The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.

If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.

But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".

Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

Grace I don't agree with the way you portray scripture and use Daffy Duck with regard to Truth... call me old fashioned but I believe the things written.

let those that relate to what you say recieve.. I refuse... but not despise you the person.

I wish to believe but be not high minded...