Not By Works

[loveme1]

the context of john 6 is eating food which endures to eternal life, vs seeking food which will die,

it means those who trust in God and put their life in his hands, he will give them this food which lasts forever, the promises he made are real, it is eternal security 101.

the ones who jess says depart are those who trY to come to him by thei works, not the on s who asked for the food which endures forever?

Which is? What is the eternal life food?

Jess.. must be a typo...

It is those that work iniquity.... the idea that the Messiah will say to His Faithful depart from me you did works and did not believe in me is absurd.... quite ridiculous tbh....

if those in unbelief were to offer works of the dead husband In place of Faith in the Messiah then.. yes.. makes sense... but a servant is not shunned by their Master for doing what he asked them to do....

 

[stonesoffire]

I want to repeat my questions due to the thread moving so fast:

How much do you have to sin to lose your salvation? Would be nice to have some specifics on such an important issue. How do you know that you've lost it? Can you get it back?

And one more question, how do you deal with Jesus saying that He will not lose any of those whom the Father gives Him, but shall raise them up on the last day? I would say it is impossible to interpret this verse in any other way than eternal security.

You looking for a loophole there bogadile?

oh boy...am in a silly mode again. Where's stunned?

 

[loveme1]

Think about this,

we are not under law, which means we have eternal security, because the law can not condemn us. Because Christ is always our advocate,

it is the accuser user who accuses,

Think about this... the Lord judges His people.... The King gives Everlasting life to those who do the work he gave them to do. Are we His if we don't keep His Word?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which is? What is the eternal life food?

Jesus told us, "I am the bread from heaven, one who eaten this bread will never die," "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will ease them on the last day.

It is christ, it is the cross.

Jess.. must be a typo...

ipad autocorrected Jesus to Jess

It is those that work iniquity.... the idea that the Messiah will say to His Faithful depart from me you did works and did not believe in me is absurd.... quite ridiculous tbh....

if those in unbelief were to offer works of the dead husband In place of Faith in the Messiah then.. yes.. makes sense... but a servant is not shunned by their Master for doing what he asked them to do....

it is those who did not belief, they had faith in their works not Christ. That's why when they came t the new, they spoke of their works, no child of God wild declair of his works, he will point always to Christ,

they work iniquity and lived in sin because they were never saved, as jesus said in john 6, they did not believe ATS why they could not understand.

 

[stonesoffire]

He has Billy Goat religion; when faced with the truth of Scripture all he can do is "But, but, but, but..."

~

 

[UnderGrace]

It is indeed a good fair question, that is why many have asked.

I am glad you asked too...perhaps you will get a response.

I want to repeat my questions due to the thread moving so fast:

How much do you have to sin to lose your salvation? Would be nice to have some specifics on such an important issue. How do you know that you've lost it? Can you get it back?

And one more question, how do you deal with Jesus saying that He will not lose any of those whom the Father gives Him, but shall raise them up on the last day? I would say it is impossible to interpret this verse in any other way than eternal security.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi all...I believe when we KNOW who we are in Christ, once that has truly sunk in, then the rest of our journey is growing in Him, knowing we are loved and one with Him who gave His life for us...When i was looking at certain Scriptures a few weeks ago that are posted in here about we can lose our Salvation, i started growing in fear, to me that said i had taken my eyes of Jesus...At this moment in my life with Christ, i have no reason to fear them warnings because Jesus has assured me that i can not be snatched, do some people worry about losing their Salvation because they are not secure in Him, that`s how i was untill He showed me that`s not true...I would not want to live all my days that God gives me wondering about that because Jesus said we have an abundance in Him, He wants us to grow in Him,,,I know the warnings are there for people who do walk away from Gods grace, people do become ship wrecked, but if you are walking on the narrow path then why worry about such things, they can become obsessive thoughts, and that is not walking in the Holy Spirit...xox...

Rosemary

The helmet of salvation keeps your mind. Try to envision this on you all the time. Not in a fearing way...just every once in a while thank the Lord for giving you this protection. He won't let you fall into error as long as you want truth above all. And truth is always lifting Him up...there you will learn to discern. Lucifer is all about pride in self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not sure if you know this...lol But there is often an s on your not. and I either laugh or get sick.

tee hee...

it drives me nuts!!!!!

 

[stonesoffire]

Which is? What is the eternal life food?

Jess.. must be a typo...

It is those that work iniquity.... the idea that the Messiah will say to His Faithful depart from me you did works and did not believe in me is absurd.... quite ridiculous tbh....

if those in unbelief were to offer works of the dead husband In place of Faith in the Messiah then.. yes.. makes sense... but a servant is not shunned by their Master for doing what he asked them to do....

If we are abiding in Him...at the place of being One with Him, the works that flow are of Him. Not self. And there's no iniquity when full of Holy Spirit.

You are stressing works you do.

 

[stonesoffire]

it drives me nuts!!!!!

It's cute. No worries.

 

[loveme1]

Jesus told us, "I am the bread from heaven, one who eaten this bread will never die," "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will ease them on the last day.

It is christ, it is the cross.


ipad autocorrected Jesus to Jess



it is those who did not belief, they had faith in their works not Christ. That's why when they came t the new, they spoke of their works, no child of God wild declair of his works, he will point always to Christ,

they work iniquity and lived in sin because they were never saved, as jesus said in john 6, they did not believe ATS why they could not understand.

I agree no child of GOD will go to the throne and offer their works... and you are mixing up the Faithful with the unbelieving....

By hearing and doing what Christ said to do... are we unfaithful? Really? Does not work in real time. Based on verses teaching the New in place of Old Testament it works... but you can not declare a person does not believe in Christ because they do what He taught.. or set their to do what He taught them.... no... it don't hold up.... and for too long too many have misused scripture to teach against works in one breath.. yet say works come by Faith... who are any here to declare a person's work came not by Faith?


Because I believe we are to Keep the Commandments of GOD because the Messiah taught this am I void of Faith? If not for the Grace of GOD I was dead in sin... but GOD be thanked for His unmerited favour that I was made New to walk the path set before me in Spirit and Truth.

 

[joefizz]

And this isn't helping either Meggido.

and I thought I was silly guess I've lost my silly title...Temporarily,which way is the street?
I just came from home depot from the toilet aisle,what of it?
will you be offended if I flush twice?
I mean uhhhhh,I went to home depot,and found no ladder,but I found many a screw loose here and there(interpretation not available)ok back to discussing salvation,if we can all be "Mature" that is,Meggido it might be wise to calm yourself after all I know that Magenta can keep retorting forever,that's what's endearing about her!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Think about this... the Lord judges His people.... The King gives Everlasting life to those who do the work he gave them to do. Are we His if we don't keep His Word?

If we do not keep his word we were never his,

are we under law (earn eternal life) or grace (gift of God, not earned)

gods children obey him whoever sins has never known him or seen him.

 

[preacher4truth]

. the idea that the Messiah will say to His Faithful depart from me you did works and did not believe in me is absurd.... quite ridiculous tbh....

if those in unbelief were to offer works of the dead husband In place of Faith in the Messiah then.. yes.. makes sense... but a servant is not shunned by their Master for doing what he asked them to do....

He never knew them.

He didn't say He once knew them.

So of course they didn't believe. True belief is the obedience of faith, of which Paul speaks, and entails not living a lawless life.

It's sad that you see them as servants of Christ, doing what they were told. They were none of this.

Now, fetch some church fathers who have believed your take, and please quote them.

I know, I know you don't listen "to any man", but only to yourself, so the request is moot - but it is rather convenient that you will not listen to God's men when we have this; Ephesians 4:11ff; 1 Timothy 5:17; Hebrews 13:7; 2 Corinthians 4:5; Hebrews 13:17; 1 Corinthians 16:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:12. (Sure, you can try and take 1 John 2:27 out of context and pit it against these passages but it won't fly).

Yes, interestingly enough, you say all you do is listen to God, but this isn't accurate, as you really do not listen to all of His Word and follow His decreed mandate in the provided passages above.

This is all rather convenient for you, not to listen, so you have no accountability to God's Word really, but only to yourself, and make yourself, not God's Word the final authority.

Again, the persons in Matthew 7:21-23 were not believers, they were never saved, they were never converted, Jesus never knew them. You are implying He did know them (a phrase intending a personal relationship/salvation) contradicting His solemn words.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Rosemary

The helmet of salvation keeps your mind. Try to envision this on you all the time. Not in a fearing way...just every once in a while thank the Lord for giving you this protection. He won't let you fall into error as long as you want truth above all. And truth is always lifting Him up...there you will learn to discern. Lucifer is all about pride in self.

Hi SOF...That`s what i am saying...If we stay in the truth at all times, then when we fall, slip, back slide what ever people want to call it, it is then we become to know the truth our Lord has told us because He picks us back up to march on because we are putting our faith in action by believing...The other night when i drank i knew i should not off, the next days ahead i would normally be under condemnation from the evil one because i never wore my helmet...This time i did wear my helmet, i rested in God while He battled for me because i trusted in Him and the evil one fled...I can only see this more now and i think to myself that what happens to alot of people who slip, they stay under the condemnation, and that weakens our faith...I am so delighted in the Lord that He has opened my eyes to this, i feel like i have grown an inch in Him lol...xox...Loosing ones faith i believe is not putting the word to work on our behalf, where James says, Faith without works is dead, i think he maybe talking about times like this, maybe not, but thats what i feel...xox...

 

[UnderGrace]

Not sure if you know this...lol But there is often an s on your not. and I either laugh or get sick.

tee hee...

pretty funny

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi SOF...That`s what i am saying...If we stay in the truth at all times, then when we fall, slip, back slide what ever people want to call it, it is then we become to know the truth our Lord has told us because He picks us back up to march on because we are putting our faith in action by believing...The other night when i drank i knew i should not off, the next days ahead i would normally be under condemnation from the evil one because i never wore my helmet...This time i did wear my helmet, i rested in God while He battled for me because i trusted in Him and the evil one fled...I can only see this more now and i think to myself that what happens to alot of people who slip, they stay under the condemnation, and that weakens our faith...I am so delighted in the Lord that He has opened my eyes to this, i feel like i have grown an inch in Him lol...xox...Loosing ones faith i believe is not putting the word to work on our behalf, where James says, Faith without works is dead, i think he maybe talking about times like this, maybe not, but thats what i feel...xox...

You're doing great Rosemary. If I say anything it's not mean't to be negative. Just holding you up...like the two men on the side of Moses...held his arms up and the battle was won.

 

[dcontroversal]

Of course we are to encourage one another unto good works. This is not for eternal salvation as Christ's work alone on the cross and resurrection has obtained our eternal redemption Heb. 9:12. We don't save ourselves. He is the Savior.

The willful sinning in Heb. 10:26 is the rejection of Christ's sacrifice for sins as the author of "Hebrews" was speaking to Jewish people that were going to the temple to sacrifice animals instead of having faith in Christ's finished work after hearing or obtaining the "knowledge" of Christ.

There is a vast difference between "receiving Christ Himself " and the "knowledge" of Him. We must believe!

Notice the author said - "But we are not of those that draw back from Christ and thus are saved."

I firmly believe in encouraging others to good works. I have written many times about it and I will post it again fro the new viewers of the thread.

We "get to do good works and we are participating in the family business of telling and showing others of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved.

That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.

An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12

Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.

This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.

As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8

This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.

Without Him - we can do nothing.

It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )

It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )

It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.

All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.

The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.

If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.

But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".

Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

No matter how it is sliced and diced...a worker for will never be able to distinguish the truth concerning the actual act of salvation and how it is received as long as they cannkt get last their own false working for dogma!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree no child of GOD will go to the throne and offer their works... and you are mixing up the Faithful with the unbelieving....

By hearing and doing what Christ said to do... are we unfaithful? Really? Does not work in real time. Based on verses teaching the New in place of Old Testament it works... but you can not declare a person does not believe in Christ because they do what He taught.. or set their to do what He taught them.... no... it don't hold up.... and for too long too many have misused scripture to teach against works in one breath.. yet say works come by Faith... who are any here to declare a person's work came not by Faith?


Because I believe we are to Keep the Commandments of GOD because the Messiah taught this am I void of Faith? If not for the Grace of GOD I was dead in sin... but GOD be thanked for His unmerited favour that I was made New to walk the path set before me in Spirit and Truth.

No, I am not mixing anything

the faithful do his commands and obey

the unbelieving will not, the works they try to give t Jesus, they were not works of obedience, they are self righteous works.

As james said, those of faith are doers, not hearers only but NOT DOERS.

 

[stonesoffire]

and I thought I was silly guess I've lost my silly title...Temporarily,which way is the street?
I just came from home depot from the toilet aisle,what of it?
will you be offended if I flush twice?
I mean uhhhhh,I went to home depot,and found no ladder,but I found many a screw loose here and there(interpretation not available)ok back to discussing salvation,if we can all be "Mature" that is,Meggido it might be wise to calm yourself after all I know that Magenta can keep retorting forever,that's what's endearing about her!

I certainly hope you do flush twice! We all are being potty trained. lol And we think our swords are sharp! Gonna cut off some heads coming here. lol