Preterists - Put up or shutter up
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I do not think you are being fair to Angela. She does not have a mean bone in her body. I saw nothing disgusting nor vindictive in her post.
Everyone including you are entitled to post what you believe to be constructive even if the others do not appreciate the content of the post.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Everyone including you are entitled to post what you believe to be constructive even if the others do not appreciate the content of the post.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Are you positive that the second coming of Christ is the Christian's "blessed hope"?
If that is the case, then all believers will be weeping, wailing, mourning and trembling with fear (along with the rest of the unsaved, unbelieving, and ungodly), since that is exactly what the second coming will entail. Please note carefully (Rev 1:7; Jude 1:14,15; 2 Thess 1:7-10; Rev 19:11-21)
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God... And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Again, if what you say is true, where did those armies in Heaven clothed in fine linen come from, and what happened to the Marriage of the Lamb? How in the world can Christian be so confused?
If that is the case, then all believers will be weeping, wailing, mourning and trembling with fear (along with the rest of the unsaved, unbelieving, and ungodly), since that is exactly what the second coming will entail. Please note carefully (Rev 1:7; Jude 1:14,15; 2 Thess 1:7-10; Rev 19:11-21)
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God... And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Again, if what you say is true, where did those armies in Heaven clothed in fine linen come from, and what happened to the Marriage of the Lamb? How in the world can Christian be so confused?
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I am so glad that God opened my eyes to the written works (books) of the many Christian Theologians throughout the ages.
Open your eyes to what the scripture actually says. Read the works of those who have spent a lifetime studying the Word of God.
As for your OP. It shows me that you have no interest in what a Preterist (I think you mean Peterist) is. You freely use it as a label to justify what you believe. If you want to argue what you believe. Fine, lay out what you believe, and ask if you are right. Since you base your opinion on what you read from the Bible, that opinion is all that you are qualified to discuss.
Open your eyes to what the scripture actually says. Read the works of those who have spent a lifetime studying the Word of God.
As for your OP. It shows me that you have no interest in what a Preterist (I think you mean Peterist) is. You freely use it as a label to justify what you believe. If you want to argue what you believe. Fine, lay out what you believe, and ask if you are right. Since you base your opinion on what you read from the Bible, that opinion is all that you are qualified to discuss.
I cannot tell a lie! This third temple business confuses me!
1. Solomon's temple - built 1 Chronicles 22:25; destroyed 2 Kings 25:9
2. Zerubabel's temple - Ezra 1:2
3. Herod the Great's temple - begun 19 BC finished 63 AD. Destroyed 70 AD
So are you talking 4th temple? Because I think the third temple was the one razed by the Roman armies. Now, I know even Herod said he was merely rebuilding the second temple. But, when you totally rebuild something, basically leaving nothing remaining, is that a rebuild or a new temple? I guess God's opinion is what counts, and Jesus never says any number before "temple" so we will have to wait to find out. I'm definitely willing to concede this point, but in light of it bring razed to the ground, and never being rebuilt, my opinion is that Herod's temple is the third.
Which brings us to the issue of why we need a 4th/3rd temple. Paul clearly says we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? (1 Corinthians 6:19 NASB)
This idea is related to the belief that Christ himself, having claimed to be and do what the temple was and did, is the new temple (John 2:19), and that his people, as a part of the "body of Christ" (meaning the church), are part of this temple as well (2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:19–22; 1 Peter 2:4–5). The result, according to N. T. Wright, is that the earthly temple (along with the city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel) is no longer of any spiritual significance:
[Paul] refers to the church, and indeed to individual Christians, as the ‘temple of the living God’ (1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19). To Western Christians, thinking anachronistically of the temple as simply the Jewish equivalent of a cathedral, the image is simply one metaphor among many and without much apparent significance.
For a first-century Jew, however, the Temple had an enormous significance; as a result, when Paul uses such an image within twenty-five years of the Crucifixion (with the actual temple still standing), it is a striking index of the immense change that has taken place in his [Paul’s] thought. The Temple had been superseded by the Church. If this is so for the Temple, and in Romans 4 for the Land, then it must a fortiori be the case for Jerusalem, which formed the concentric circle in between those two in the normal Jewish worldview.In the teaching of both Jesus and Paul, then, according to Wright,
God’s house in Jerusalem was meant to be a ‘place of prayer for all the nations’ (Isaiah 56:7; Mark 11:17); but God would now achieve this through the new temple, which was Jesus himself and his people."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Temple
So, do we need another temple? Because prophecy has been fulfilled! Not looking to make animal sacrifices again, Jesus was the once for all sacrifice. Now, for the Jews, another matter. And this also pints to why I believe Herod's temple was also the third! Again, just my opinion!
Sorry for the copy and paste, it just expressed my thoughts a bit!
Gosh. You tell us that you don't read any books but the Bible and some history books..... and I say I believe you told the truth. And that makes my post "disgusting?"
BTW, "liking" someone's post doesn't necessarily mean you agree with them. Angela and I actually disagree on a fair number of things.
BTW, "liking" someone's post doesn't necessarily mean you agree with them. Angela and I actually disagree on a fair number of things.
That's not the issue. Paul, Jude, and John say (by Divine inspiration) that at His second coming Christ comes WITH His saints (and angels). But how could He come with His saints unless He had first come FOR His saints? And if you are suggesting that the Resurrection/Rapture and the battle of Armageddon all occur at the same time, not only would that be preposterous, but it would violate Scripture since there is absolutely no biblical basis for making such a bizarre assumption.
The truth (for those who want to the truth) is that Christ comes FIRST for His saints at the Resurrection/Rapture and later on -- AFTER the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage of the Lamb -- He comes WITH His saints and angels in fiery judgment.
The truth (for those who want to the truth) is that Christ comes FIRST for His saints at the Resurrection/Rapture and later on -- AFTER the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage of the Lamb -- He comes WITH His saints and angels in fiery judgment.
When you actually say the word oink, the N sound connects with the K by the tongue making contact at the back of the mouth, while saying the letter N, that sound is formed at the front of the mouth. Hmmm...
So now now I am being censured for "liking" someone's post that you do not like?? Is this Facebook, or a Christian forum discussing the Bible?
Perhaps commenting in the content of my post would be a more honest, and indeed, ethical thing to do. If you don't agree with the Scriptures I have posted, I would like to see and understand your reasoning. Or is that asking too much from someone who is in paranoid attack mode?
I notice you also say I am not a Christian? Who made you judge, jury and executioner? Fortunately, Jesus knows my heart, and it is not filled with malice, like this vindictive post!
I certainly don't expect to change the mind of someone who won't respond in a way that honours God. My post was simply in answer to your OP, which was also an attack, no discussion of supporting Scriptures, which has continued throughout this thread by you. Others have discussed why Partial preterism is wrong, but I have yet to see a single person attempt to refute it. Well, I guess these cult dogmas are more important than discussing the Bible.
And for the record, salvation is NEVER determined by one's eschatology!
Do you seriously think all those 1st Century Christians were killed because they just rolled over, and went along with the mandates of Rome? The kind of attitude most Christians have today.... that the world is all powerful, and they have whipped our butts — despite Jesus having already beaten Satan — is exactly the kind of citizen Rome would have loved to have in all its provinces.
Since Solomon's temple was the first temple, Herod's temple was considered the second temple since it was in fact a restructuring of the one completed under Ezra-Nehemiah. Therefore a third temple is a necessity to fulfil the prophecy of the Abomination of Desolation followed by the Great Tribulation.
"The Second Temple (Hebrew: בֵּית־הַמִּקְדָּשׁ הַשֵּׁנִי, Beit HaMikdash HaSheni) was the Jewish Holy Temple which stood on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during the Second Temple period, between 516 BCE and 70 CE. According to Judeo-Christian tradition, it replaced Solomon's Temple (the First Temple), which was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE, when Jerusalem was conquered and part of the population of the Kingdom of Judah was taken into exile to Babylon." (Wikipedia).
"The Second Temple (Hebrew: בֵּית־הַמִּקְדָּשׁ הַשֵּׁנִי, Beit HaMikdash HaSheni) was the Jewish Holy Temple which stood on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during the Second Temple period, between 516 BCE and 70 CE. According to Judeo-Christian tradition, it replaced Solomon's Temple (the First Temple), which was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE, when Jerusalem was conquered and part of the population of the Kingdom of Judah was taken into exile to Babylon." (Wikipedia).
Look, I am not fully convinced in my eschatology. I am somewhere betwixt amill and historic-premill(Chilasm), as I am not sure how to define the 'millenium'. Revelation is full of figurative language, so is 1,000 years a literal 1,000 years or a really long time? Seeing that 1,000 is used in other places as not being a literal 1,000(cattle on a 1,000 hills for instance) is where I am stuck.
But, when He comes with the saints, these saints are those who died and went to be with Him...absent from the body, present with the Lord. So, when He comes, the dead in Christ raise first(to be reunited with their spirit in the cloud). Those who are alive(here the context are those who are saved) are changed(given their new bodies) and called up to be with Him in the cloud.
If this is pre-trib, then the Christ has to come again after this.
But, when He comes with the saints, these saints are those who died and went to be with Him...absent from the body, present with the Lord. So, when He comes, the dead in Christ raise first(to be reunited with their spirit in the cloud). Those who are alive(here the context are those who are saved) are changed(given their new bodies) and called up to be with Him in the cloud.
If this is pre-trib, then the Christ has to come again after this.