Attonment is a finnised work.

[Innerfire89]

Hey everyone.

Limited attonment or specific attonment is a finished work. Those who have Christ attonment have a definite place in Heaven. Their sins are paid for by their substitute, Christ. They can't be punished for sins that are attoned for or Christ work on the cross would be ineffective. If you come to understand limited attoment you'll see even more how much Christ loves us, and just how much He does to give us salvation.

We are draw to Christ by The Father. John 6:44.
He works believe into us. John 6:28-29, Philippians1:29, 2nd Tim. 2:25.
God predestines us for salvation, conforms us to be christ like, and justified us. Who can condem us? What can sepratate us from the love of Christ? Rom. 8:28-39. We have much to be thankful for and God is more than worthey of our praise!

Stay strong in Christ everyone!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Limited attonment or specific attonment is a finished work.

The atoning work of Christ is definitely a "finished work". Thus "IT IS FINISHED" was a victorious proclamation by Christ.

However it NOT a limited atonement, since Christ is the propitiation for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD (1 John 2:2, and a host of other Scriptures). The only reason all are not saved is because all will not repent and believe. But God now commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent (Acts 17:30), and that verse alone demolished limited atonement.

 

[Innerfire89]

We have to take a deeper look the words "world" and " all" which can mean all nations. Jews and gentiles. In Corinthians 11:32 world or in the Greek kosomo are those being condemned.

In john 10:15 Jesus tells us that he lays down his life for the sheep, not everyone is a sheep, some are goats.

 

[Magenta]

We have to take a deeper look the words "world" and " all" which can mean all nations. Jews and gentiles. In Corinthians 11:32 world or in the Greek kosomo are those being condemned.

In john 10:15 Jesus tells us that he lays down his life for the sheep, not everyone is a sheep, some are goats.

His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. He gave His life as a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, but not everyone will repent and believe. The pride of life is a great obstacle to many. "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." This does not mean that every person is saved, for God will grant life ever after only to those who believe in Jesus Christ. They are His sheep

 

[notmyown]

if anyone is interested in the doctrine of particular redemption, this man explains it pretty well.

'L' is for the way You died for me (Limited Atonement) | SermonAudio.com

 

[p_rehbein]

Is this a "back door" approach to the justification of OSAS?

Sounds like it..........if so.......meh.......

Hey everyone.

Limited attonment or specific attonment is a finished work. Those who have Christ attonment have a definite place in Heaven. Their sins are paid for by their substitute, Christ. They can't be punished for sins that are attoned for or Christ work on the cross would be ineffective. If you come to understand limited attoment you'll see even more how much Christ loves us, and just how much He does to give us salvation.

We are draw to Christ by The Father. John 6:44.
He works believe into us. John 6:28-29, Philippians1:29, 2nd Tim. 2:25.
God predestines us for salvation, conforms us to be christ like, and justified us. Who can condem us? What can sepratate us from the love of Christ? Rom. 8:28-39. We have much to be thankful for and God is more than worthey of our praise!

Stay strong in Christ everyone!

 

[Jackson123]

Hey everyone.

Limited attonment or specific attonment is a finished work. Those who have Christ attonment have a definite place in Heaven. Their sins are paid for by their substitute, Christ. They can't be punished for sins that are attoned for or Christ work on the cross would be ineffective. If you come to understand limited attoment you'll see even more how much Christ loves us, and just how much He does to give us salvation.

We are draw to Christ by The Father. John 6:44.
He works believe into us. John 6:28-29, Philippians1:29, 2nd Tim. 2:25.
God predestines us for salvation, conforms us to be christ like, and justified us. Who can condem us? What can sepratate us from the love of Christ? Rom. 8:28-39. We have much to be thankful for and God is more than worthey of our praise!

Stay strong in Christ everyone!

so you believe after accepting Jesus the future sin are forgiven?

why Jesus instruct His diciple to love other like love yourself? Anyway, they sin was attoned, No matter what you do you go to heaven

How about If they refused to obey, instead of love other, kill other? Can they punish for sin that are attoned for?

 

[Muzungu256]

so this is a calvinism thread ok............ lets beat this doctrine again.

calvinists are cold-hearted people who are very into big words and systematic theology, but they are consistent in what they believe. they think that God rejects someone who comes to Him if he isnt elect.

no calvinists are great biblical christians, some of the most influential people in the reformation was calvinists and believed in that doctrine, they were warm-hearted bible believers. they believe God rejects no one who comes to Him, because if they come to Him, they are elect.

there are the two sides.

 

[Innerfire89]

so you believe after accepting Jesus the future sin are forgiven?

why Jesus instruct His diciple to love other like love yourself? Anyway, they sin was attoned, No matter what you do you go to heaven

How about If they refused to obey, instead of love other, kill other? Can they punish for sin that are attoned for?

If they refuse to obey Christ then Christ is not their lord. A tree is known by its fruit.

 

[Jackson123]

If they refuse to obey Christ then Christ is not their lord. A tree is known by its fruit.

Than they sins are not attoned

 

[Innerfire89]

Is this a "back door" approach to the justification of OSAS?

Sounds like it..........if so.......meh.......

I prefer the term presrevance of the saints. Those who have Christ working within them will preserve because Christ doesn't make lemons.

 

[Nehemiah6]

... they believe God rejects no one who comes to Him, because if they come to Him, they are elect.

If that's what they believe, then they should repudiate and reject the Westminster Confession of Faith (but they do not). That (and all Reformed confessions of faith) stipulate that God has decreed the non-elect to damnation. Let the reader read and understand from the London Reformed Baptist Confession:

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )


2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )


3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

Although they misquote Bible verses in this regard, the plain meaning is that God decrees some (actually billions) to eternal damnation. This is even more clearly brought out in the Westminster Confession.

 

[Innerfire89]

Than they sins are not attoned

Yup. We are changed by Christ, we want to obey. That's christ living In us.

 

[Innerfire89]

If that's what they believe, then they should repudiate and reject the Westminster Confession of Faith (but they do not). That (and all Reformed confessions of faith) stipulate that God has decreed the non-elect to damnation. Let the reader read and understand from the London Reformed Baptist Confession:

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )


2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )


3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

Although they misquote Bible verses in this regard, the plain meaning is that God decrees some (actually billions) to eternal damnation. This is even more clearly brought out in the Westminster Confession.

No where does it say the nonelect come to christ for salvation. The non elect are predistined to be punshised for the sins of their own doing.

The non elect can't turn to Christ for salvation because it takes divine intervention to do so. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 10:25-26 "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I am do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
Now we come to the first point if TULIP Total depravity.

 

[p_rehbein]

Changing the name doesn't change the flaw

I prefer the term presrevance of the saints. Those who have Christ working within them will preserve because Christ doesn't make lemons.

 

[Nehemiah6]

No where does it say the nonelect come to christ for salvation. The non elect are predistined to be punshised for the sins of their own doing.

There you go. You just confirmed that you are a dyed-in-the-wool Five Point Calvinist, and even though you are dead wrong, you are at least consistent. So when you preach the Gospel you do make it clear to your audience that some of you are damned no matter what? Is that correct?

Even Spurgeon could not be a consistent Calvinist because he knew deep down that there was something wrong with that doctrine. Let us know if you find a sermon by Spurgeon where he plainly tells his hearers that some of you (perhaps the majority ) are already damned and the Gospel will do you no good.

We know that all mankind is under condemnation, but we also know from Scripture that all men can be saved if they will repent and believe the Gospel. God predestines NO ONE to Hell.

 

[Nehemiah6]

CALVINIST SPURGEON PREACHES UNLIMITED ATONEMENT -- "A Call to the Unconverted"

MY hearer, are you a believer, or not? According to your answer to that question must be the style in which I shall address you tonight. I would ask you as a great favor to your own soul this evening to divest yourself of the thought that you are sitting in a chapel and hearing a minister who is preaching to a large congregation. Imagine you are sitting in your own house, in your own chair—and think that I am standing by you, with your hand in mine and am speaking personally to you and to you, alone.

For that is how I desire to preach this night to each of my hearers—one by one. I want you, then, in the sight of God, to answer me this all-important and solemn question before I begin—are you in Christ, or are you not? Have you fled for refuge to Him who is the only hope for sinners? Or are you yet a stranger to the commonwealth of Israel, ignorant of God and of His holy gospel?

Come—be honest with your own heart and let your conscience say yes, or no—for one of these two things you are tonight—you are either under the wrath of God, or you are delivered from it! You are tonight either an heir of wrath or an inheritor of the kingdom of grace. Which of these two? Make no “ifs” or “ahs” in your answer.

Answer straight forward to your own soul. And if there is any doubt whatever about it, I beseech you rest not till that doubt is resolved!...

But my hearers, I am solemnly convinced that a large proportion of this assembly dare not say so. And you tonight, (for I am speaking personally to you), remember you are one of those who dare not say this, for you are a stranger to the grace of God. You dare not lie before God and your own conscience, therefore you do honestly say, “I know I was never regenerated. I am now what I always was and that is the most I can say.” Now with you I have to deal. I charge you by Him who shall judge the quick and the dead, before whom you and I must soon appear, listen to the words I speak, for they may be the last warning you shall ever hear!

Please note that not once did Spurgeon say "There is no hope for some (or most) of you". If fact he encouraged his entire audience to give heed to his warning and repent.

 

[Jackson123]

No where does it say the nonelect come to christ for salvation. The non elect are predistined to be punshised for the sins of their own doing.

The non elect can't turn to Christ for salvation because it takes divine intervention to do so. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 10:25-26 "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I am do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
Now we come to the first point if TULIP Total depravity.

No one can come to me unless the Father WHO sent me draw him.

We do not know the reason Father sent to Jesus. It is by Random?

why Father sent A and not B, there must be a reason.

so far the bible say, WHO love the Lord and fellow men are doing the Will of God

I do not know the criteria for a men to be qualifide to be sent by Father, but I do not believe It is random.

A Lot of verses say that God is fair, I believe He have fair standart qualification.

 

[Innerfire89]

There you go. You just confirmed that you are a dyed-in-the-wool Five Point Calvinist, and even though you are dead wrong, you are at least consistent. So when you preach the Gospel you do make it clear to your audience that some of you are damned no matter what? Is that correct?

Even Spurgeon could not be a consistent Calvinist because he knew deep down that there was something wrong with that doctrine. Let us know if you find a sermon by Spurgeon where he plainly tells his hearers that some of you (perhaps the majority ) are already damned and the Gospel will do you no good.

We know that all mankind is under condemnation, but we also know from Scripture that all men can be saved if they will repent and believe the Gospel. God predestines NO ONE to Hell.

The nonelect aren't concerned with accepting Christ or going to hell, it's the elect we preach the gosful for so they come to faith.

But who can repent when they are spiritually dead? Like I stated already, the Father must draw us to the Son, God works faith in us, mankind is lost in sin and hopeless without God's divine intervention. Why can't God predistine people to hell? They are guilty and deserve punishment.

 

[Gabriel2020]

The out pouring of the holy spirit was for a reason, so that every person that heard his voice as would know him and except Jesus Christ. If you harden your heart to his calling, it no ones fault but your own. Every body gets a chance.