Not By Works

[loveme1]

2 Corinthians 5

1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7(For we walk by faith, not by sight 8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.



We are to labour so that we may be accepted of Him.

We all must appear before the judgement seat of Christ.


Paul was not highminded telling people that they Labour in vain.... not he said labour to be accepted of Him..


Statements like those not solely relying on the works of the cross are unsaved..

because those who truly rely on the work of the cross believe to the saving of their soul and led of the spirit which gives work to do... knowing it is the power of GOD.. and He wants to be worshipped in Spirit and Truth.

GOD wants us to Believe on His Son and have Everlasting life.


The same GOD that states those that Love Him Keep the Commandments.. and Affirmed and taught through the Testimony of the Messiah.


Anything not done in Faith of the Messiah is in vain... because there is only One Mediator.. One High Priest. One Bishop of our Souls... One Lord of Lord's and King of Kings.... so yes the Just live by Faith. Faith that worketh love.


Heavenly Father I share this for those willing... that your Truth may be shared against the heretics of the New Testament.. as happened with the Old Testament.

If it be good with you may they receive the Truth that sets them free.


Glory to the Almighty GOD and Our Messiah.

 

[Zmouth]

I'm pretty sure someone just called believing a "work" in here earlier today, or was it yesterday?

Faith is the substance of thing(s) hoped for; the evidence of thing(s) not seen.

Faith is not simply believing hoping something is true, that is merely believing, not faith. It is written in James 2:19, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." Yet it is written in Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please God" since "he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Hence it written, "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" 1 Peter 3:15

The substance of what you believe is the reason you have faith. Of course, that is the reason why those who claim that they are saved by faith alone can not answer the question regarding whether Noah who found grace in the eyes of the LORD was saved by his faith or by his works?

 

[Seohce]

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

 

[Seohce]

The truly converted, His sheep, do this, or are you goat herding???

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

I honestly wonder how those who believe others can lose their salvation know they themselves are still saved... I mean if it's so easy to be deceived, how do you know you're not? Under your belief system how do you know you have enough faith and or are believing/doing the right things? Doesn't seem like eternal security to me.

its easy for me to answer this because I trust Him to work out His good will in my life and cause me to walk in good works joyfully.

But this must, required stuff, just sounds like more Law to me. If the just shall live by faith how does that play a part in this belief system?

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

It is a mystery to me too?

They make faith/ belief a work. Neither are meritorious. Faith is being persuaded or convinced that what God says is true.

Faith is the opposite of work, since one can only have faith in the finished work of Jesus

through the abandonment of any attempt to justify oneself by works.

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Take it up with Jesus who inspired Paul to use such words...Galatians 1 and 3

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Hi Undergrace, I am in agreement with your biblical thoughts, but I can not understand why the salvation plus works people are not.

People will go on and on about their works; And all that the Grace plus nothing folks are saying is; Christians are saved "unto good works" (yes we have works), that God has prepared before hand that we should walk in them; but your works won't save you, and they won't keep you saved.

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." James4:6

Nobody say's "no works" but what we are saying is; it is Jesus works of righteousness not yours, that will save you and keep you saved. but you say; yes God saved me but now I need to work to keep my salvation. And again I will tell you it is God's sanctifying work in the life of the believer that keeps you saved. "you are saved, unto good works, not by them." A simple concept to understand but proud people will not except - "Faith in Christ plus nothing."

1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Romans5:1,2

What more can anyone say; "saved unto good works, not by them."

God bless

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

I'm pretty sure someone just called believing a "work" in here earlier today, or was it yesterday? Continuing in the faith is not so much the contention as the need or requirement to do other works. Those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, can they be lost? That is the other issue. Scripture points to "No." Workers for say "Yes."

My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can
snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to
Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and
the one who comes to Me I will never turn away.

John 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none
of all those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

Romans 38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Pertaining to point b: some say if salvation is lost it cannot be regained. We say if one loses their faith they were probably practicing a works' based religion, and were not saved to begin with.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Here it is: repenting and confessing is called a work here,
not belief, though truly it amounts to the same thing.
[/QU

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Yes. That theology becomes man-centric. We are always pointing to Christ, others to self.

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Let me again address this as many have...if one teaches the following they teach a works based salvation...

a. Faith plus works to gain, keep or maintain salvation
b. Salvation can be lost and must be regained by doing something
c. Jesus plus anything other than faith for salvation
etc.......

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Amen.....ALL glory belongs unto God dia Jesus......it is all their work.......and just like the baiting for us to boast what we have done.....not me.....he works through me and without him working through us....we are nothing!!

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Faith plus works for salvation = false gospel of a different kind, no power to save, double cursed and all who believe it and push it are deceived and fools <---Galatians 1 and 3

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Now your lying.....I never once said a person could deny Jesus and be saved.......All I did was reference PETER DENYING HIM THREE TIMES the night he was crucified and no where did it say Peter lost his salvation.....man....for claiming the truth your sure lie alot and twist what people say.....go pull my post where I said what you say I said or be found a bald faced liar....WE WILL ALL WAIT

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Yes...that's the way I took it too. Cain offered the "work of his hands" - what he had produced. Abel offered something innocent - a lamb.

It was the fact that God rejected Cain's sacrifice that he had the law of sin in him rise up and then he murdered his brother.

Both of them would have known that God provided a garment of an animal skin which needed to be sacrificed in order to get it's skin.

Abel came by faith in what God had done. Cain came with the fruit of his own labor. God said that Abel brought the more excellent sacrifice.

Hebrews 11:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.

God calls "self-effort in your own works" as evil. When ever we depend on what we do from ourselves for righteousness - we will be in trouble.

Abel did the righteous deed by faith in God's way - not like Cain who did it "his way".

Notice that both brothers were "seeking after God".....selah

1 John 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Amen to that...I stand amazed at how many push works in some form and or fashion and display a less than honest approach to what is stated by those who believe saved by grace dia faith eternally........

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Gotta love the one obsessed with "if you don't stop believing" and then says we're not saved by anything we do. Uh? LOL!

Jesus saves all that come to him, not just some...

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[Seohce]

Just to add some support to this...

God basically says to Cain, if you do well won't you won't be accepted too?

As we open up the story in Genesis 4 we see Cain means, "*I* have gotten..." This is works, what I have done, etc etc.

Genesis 4:1Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten[SUP]a[/SUP] a man with the help of the LORD.”

Notice she also says, "with the help of the Lord..." Lol, if that's not a perfect picture of works salvationism I don't know what is...the idea is we can do works (get on our own) "with the help of the Lord" after being converted.

Let's see how the plays out...

2And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. 3In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground,

Here we see Cain bringing the fruit of *his* work to the Lord...

4and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,

And Abel brings the fruit of the Lord's work. This is a perfect example of Christ being our only substitute.

5but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell.

Cain's offering isn't ACCEPTED.. and look at Cain's reaction: VERY UPSET.

Elder brother anyone?

6The LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7If you do well, will you not be accepted?[SUP]b[/SUP] And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”

And now we are going to blow up some theology boxes. First off the Lord says, if you don't do well won't you be ACCEPTED? If you think *YOUR* work makes you acceptable to the Lord you're flat out wrong. And the Lord also says, "If you do well..." Haha, so the Lord is saying here's what you DO​... You give to ME, what I gave to YOU. He gave us His love and now we give Him, HIS love back by loving one another. He gave us HIS forgiveness now we give Him, His forgiveness back by forgiving one another. And Cain *knew* what the Lord wanted because He was puzzled why Cain was angry when Cain knew what He wanted.

If you think the Lord wants what you "have gotten" and what you "have worked hard for"... good luck with that.

Because *PRIDE* leads to hating your brother.

You start comparing *YOUR WORKS* against your brothers... and ANGER wells up in your heart... and Scripture calls this MURDER. Lifting our works up is actually what the Lord calls *EVIL*.

And in case you think the names don't matter... look at the NAME that GRACE passed down into mankind through after Cain kills Abel... (The idea here was NOW WHAT... who's going to REDEEM mankind? If Cain isn't him and Cain killed Abel?

*SETH*.

25And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.”

Cain = "I have appointed."
Seth = "God has appointed." (Sheth is Hebrew is Substitute, the full idea here is God appointed a SUBSTITUE.
Abel = "Breath" or "Breathing Spirit"

So let's see how this plays out:

Cain *I have appointed* my works... killed Abel (Our breathing spirit).... but God appointed Seth as our Substitute.

New International Version 1984 John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.