Where does Jesus Speak about the Millennium?

[oldhermit]

Interesting that so far nothing found in the gospels or the letters written by Paul, Peter or James on such an important topic.

There are many different brands of millennialism. Millennial theories are a dime a dozen and have always existed in a constant state of constant evolution. The one consistent feature of millennialism is that it is always is a state of change. Millennial theories are as varied as the individuals within the organizations they represent and are as equally contradictory of one another. There are Evangelical Fundamentalists who comprise the majority of the ecumenical groups and are represented by both premillennial and postmillennial advocates. There is also Seventh Day Adventist millennialism, and Watchtower millennialism. Even the Catholic Church once held to a form of millennial eschatology. Their position as of now is that premillennial views “cannot safely be taught,” although they do not dogmatically defend this view. As a hermeneutic, millennialism is a particularly literalistic approach to the reading of scripture, especially in the areas of prophesy. Millennialism is an abuse of revealed representations and robs revealed symbols of their spiritual significance. As an eschatology, it is a collection of theoretical events that surround the second coming of Jesus. These events are created out of a literalization of highly figurative language and the misapplication of OT prophesies.

A member here on CC who goes by HeRoseFromTheDead once made a rather astute observation that I thought was very good. He said, "Preterism actually promotes historical understanding against which prophecies can be examined. Futurism promotes fanciful projections of prophecy into the future that can't be examined against anything. One is based on historical witness; the other is based on imagination as if prophecy is self-defining."

 

[Willie-T]

There are many different brands of millennialism. Millennial theories are a dime a dozen and have always existed in a constant state of constant evolution. The one consistent feature of millennialism is that it is always is a state of change. Millennial theories are as varied as the individuals within the organizations they represent and are as equally contradictory of one another. There are Evangelical Fundamentalists who comprise the majority of the ecumenical groups and are represented by both premillennial and postmillennial advocates. There is also Seventh Day Adventist millennialism, and Watchtower millennialism. Even the Catholic Church once held to a form of millennial eschatology. Their position as of now is that premillennial views “cannot safely be taught,” although they do not dogmatically defend this view. As a hermeneutic, millennialism is a particularly literalistic approach to the reading of scripture, especially in the areas of prophesy. Millennialism is an abuse of revealed representations and robs revealed symbols of their spiritual significance. As an eschatology, it is a collection of theoretical events that surround the second coming of Jesus. These events are created out of a literalization of highly figurative language and the misapplication of OT prophesies.

A member here on CC who goes by HeRoseFromTheDead once made a rather astute observation that I thought was very good. He said, "Preterism actually promotes historical understanding against which prophecies can be examined. Futurism promotes fanciful projections of prophecy into the future that can't be examined against anything. One is based on historical witness; the other is based on imagination as if prophecy is self-defining."

That is good.

 

[oldhermit]

That is good.

If I could change one thing about his statement it would be his last comment. Rather that saying "as if prophecy is self-defining," I would have said as if prophesy was subject to human interpretation.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Interesting that so far nothing found in the gospels or the letters written by Paul, Peter or James on such an important topic.

Do you know why? God prefers not to repeat Himself. Study the prophets from Isaiah to Malachi, and discover the Millennium in dozens of passages. It will be worth the effort.

 

[Willie-T]

Do you know why? God prefers not to repeat Himself. Study the prophets from Isaiah to Malachi, and discover the Millennium in dozens of passages. It will be worth the effort.

How about showing just a few, since you already know right where to find those passages?

 

[posthuman]

maybe it's off topic, tho i suspect it's not too far off at all, but i have a question about this:

He remembers his covenant forever,
the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations
(Psalm 105:8) ​

does that mean "tough luck" for the 1,001[SUP]st[/SUP] generation, God forgets His word at that point . . .
. . . or is "1,000" an idiomatic expression?
'cause if it isn't what happened to "forever" ??

 

[Locutus]

Judaic Hyperbole Bones - not meant to be taken literally.

 

[posthuman]

Judaic Hyperbole Bones - not meant to be taken literally.

almost makes ya figure 'Hebraisms' are employed throughout the whole scripture dunnit?

 

[oldhermit]

maybe it's off topic, tho i suspect it's not too far off at all, but i have a question about this:

He remembers his covenant forever,
the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations
(Psalm 105:8) ​

does that mean "tough luck" for the 1,001[SUP]st[/SUP] generation, God forgets His word at that point . . .
. . . or is "1,000" an idiomatic expression?
'cause if it isn't what happened to "forever" ??

Although the number 1000 is used many time is scripture as a literal number, when it is used symbolically it represents the aggregate of a whole, usually indicating a very large number. Strong's Concordance suggests that when used metaphorically, χίλια offers the idea of nothing excluded or left out. For example:
a. Psalms 50:10 the Psalmist says, “For every beast of the forest is Mine, the cattle on a thousand hills.” Here, the number is used to express a whole - “every beast of the field.” If we accept the number 1000 as a literal number this would limit God's ownership of “every beast of the field,” only the cattle on a 1000 hills would belong to the Lord. The revelation of this Psalm is that ALL the cattle on ALL the hills belong to the Lord, just as he said, “every beast of the field.”
b. Psalms 105:8, “He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.” Here, the use of 1000 generations is modified by “for ever.” This does not suggest that God abandons his covenant after 1000 generations. God always remembers his covenant unto ALL generations.
c. In Deuteronomy 7:9 we are told, “Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments.” Does this mean that God's lovingkindness only extends to a 1000 generations? No, God is eternally faithful and his lovingkindness NEVER fails.
d. 1 Chronicles 16:15, “Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;” Same as Deut. 7:9 – ALL generations.
e. Job 9:3, “If he (man) will contend with him (God), he cannot answer him one of a thousand.” Does this suggest that man may be able to answer God in 1001 times? No. This simply conveys the absolute futility of man's wisdom when confronted by the wisdom of God. Man will never be able to answer God.
In relation to time, 1000 suggests a completed appointed time, or a full period of time that represents a culmination of events and always seems to suggest a long period of time. The 1000 years of verses five and six represent the rule and reign of Christians beyond the threshold of time. The reign of Christ is an eternal reign unlimited by any temporal designation. However, it is NOT the reign of Christ that is under consideration in this text, it is the reign of Christians.

 

[oldhermit]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Millennial theory is the result of not allowing scripture to determine its own use of language and not allowing God alone to assign meaning to revealed symbols.[/FONT]

 

[willybob]

Its the church age that was to come after Pentecost. The kingdom of God that Jesus, John the baptizer, and the apostle John said was at hand...John also said he was the companion in tribulation to the saints of his day that had already begun> Rev 1-3b,9....

The idea of a futuristic mill-kingdom is not found anywhere in scripture. It was invented by a Jesuit theologian in the 1580s named Francisco Ribera. Primarily to take the heat off the Pope during the reformation as being the world's antichrist...After that his 500 page work lay dormant for some 270 years until revived in the late 1700s by another Jesuit named Emanuel Lancunza..Then it was translated into English by Scottish presbyter Edwin Irving in 1827, and its been end-times fantasy mania ever since...one of the biggest money making industries along with the signs and wonder mania. Both began at Powers Court with Irving and the new Catholic Apostles club...John Darby attended some of those meetings in the early 1830 before Irving died......this info can be easily researched on the net, and one can put their finger on when all of this began........be blessed

 

[willybob]

the number "a" 1000 is symbolic for the perfection of God's obedient covenant keepers for "a" thousand generations foud 3 times in the OT. we can easily see that there are not literally one thousand generations, because there has only been approx. 150 generations since Adam...a thousand is one of the many symbolic terms signified (symbolic code) found in the book of revelation...most all the numbers in that book have symbolic meaning, for instance; the 2 witnesses are the saints during the church age, when 2 or more are gathered in HIS name for the gospels sake, whereas Jesus is in their mist........be blessed

 

[willybob]

in the preface to the book of Revelation (verses 1-10), we are told in the first verse that the language is symbolic...Always good to read the preface of any book before making assumptions of what might be read thereafter.....be blessed

 

[Ahwatukee]

Millennial theory is the result of not allowing scripture to determine its own use of language and not allowing God alone to assign meaning to revealed symbols.

Good day Oldhermit,

The on-going problem is expositors interpreting the thousand years as being symbolic. There is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to interpret the thousand years as anything but a literal thousand years. The fact that the thousand years is consistently mentioned six times from Rev.20:1-7 demonstrates that it should be taken at face value as being a literal thousand years.

That said, there is not reason to go outside of Revelation in order to find out the meaning of "a thousand years." Expositors continue to cite Psalms 50:10 and apply that meaning to the thousand years in Revelation, which is just a misapplication of scripture.

They do the same thing with the number of 144,000, referring to it as an unknowable number, yet this is the exact number that John heard and is even broken down into 12,000 per each tribe. In addition, the number remains consistent in Rev.14.

In Rev.20:1-7 we are told that Satan is thrown into and restricted in the Abyss for a thousand years. A thousand years is also the same time period that the great tribulation saints will rule with Christ on the earth during that time. We are also told that Satan is released at the end of that thousand years. And lastly, that the rest of the unrighteous dead are resurrected after the thousand years are finished.

There is no reason to seek out another interpretation for the meaning the thousand years mentioned.

 

[Locutus]

So in other words Ahtaboy you can't find the "millennium" anywhere but the book of revelation - and the topic is:


I'm not asking about John's revelation.

Where in the gospels or letters is the millennium addressed?

 

[BillG]

Hi everyone. Just wanted to give my thoughts and I hope I don't come accross as dismissive concerning this post and to anyone who has posted here.

All of the above is beyond me. I've researched myself concerning this and pre-trib, post-trib, pre millennial and post millennial and so on.

It does my head in so much so I lost it up my backside.

I agree it is good to discuss such things but for me it really isn't a hill to die on, if we try to prove what we believe concerning such matters then we can miss the bigger picture.

The bigger picture being the hill Jesus died on, when he said "It is finished"
Reconciled to the Father, sins forgiven for those who place their faith in him.

Jesus gave 2 new commandments and took it further, love your enemies.

I focus on that myself now. So regardless whilst we are on this earth just let's be like Jesus and leave it up him

 

[oldhermit]

Good day Oldhermit,

The on-going problem is expositors interpreting the thousand years as being symbolic. There is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to interpret the thousand years as anything but a literal thousand years. The fact that the thousand years is consistently mentioned six times from Rev.20:1-7 demonstrates that it should be taken at face value as being a literal thousand years.

That said, there is not reason to go outside of Revelation in order to find out the meaning of "a thousand years." Expositors continue to cite Psalms 50:10 and apply that meaning to the thousand years in Revelation, which is just a misapplication of scripture.

They do the same thing with the number of 144,000, referring to it as an unknowable number, yet this is the exact number that John heard and is even broken down into 12,000 per each tribe. In addition, the number remains consistent in Rev.14.

In Rev.20:1-7 we are told that Satan is thrown into and restricted in the Abyss for a thousand years. A thousand years is also the same time period that the great tribulation saints will rule with Christ on the earth during that time. We are also told that Satan is released at the end of that thousand years. And lastly, that the rest of the unrighteous dead are resurrected after the thousand years are finished.

There is no reason to seek out another interpretation for the meaning the thousand years mentioned.

When people refuse to allow scripture to interpret its own use of symbols this leave everyone free to attach whatever meaning they want to to these symbols. This is why there such confusion of interpretation and such inconsistency in millennial theories. I used to be a millennialist and am quite aware of all the theories.

 

[Zi]

He's called the King and said to rule.. it wouldn't be a revelation had it been discussed before hand..

So in other words Ahtaboy you can't find the "millennium" anywhere but the book of revelation - and the topic is:


I'm not asking about John's revelation.

Where in the gospels or letters is the millennium addressed?

 

[Willie-T]

The one thing that almost anyone knows who has studied Revelation, at all, is that almost every symbolic reference in the book comes straight out of the old testament. If you don't know the OT, you are staggering around in the dark, trying to figure out John's Apocalypse.

 

[Ahwatukee]

When people refuse to allow scripture to interpret its own use of symbols this leave everyone free to attach whatever meaning they want to to these symbols. This is why there such confusion of interpretation and such inconsistency in millennial theories. I used to be a millennialist and am quite aware of all the theories.

You missed the point. There is no symbolism regarding the reference of a thousand years. The thousand years in revelation has no need of outside application as to its meaning. It is very clear and up front in its meaning of a literal thousand years. The confusion only comes when expositors attempt to apply a symbolic meaning to the time given.

What is it in the context that is leading you to look for anything other than what the scripture states?