Should the rich support the poor?

[gb9]

Support as in "fully" and the poor make no attempt to do anything to better/support themselves?

NO

Support as in offer assistance/helping hand up?

YES

this is the key. there is a big difference between helping someone who needs it and just supporting someone who does nothing.

 

[Willie-T]

this is the key. there is a big difference between helping someone who needs it and just supporting someone who does nothing.

And, when the government gets involved, instituting a "program" that requires the taxes of private citizens to operate and function, it becomes a total "support" system that breeds complacent dependency.

 

[Willie-T]

​Hi Willie,

Well they would be missing out on the sale of the produce they might have made if they were not commanded to leave the corners of the field for the stranger the widow and the orphan so they could take freely and not starve. In that way they paid more because they lost the sale of the produce they might have made. The tithe is only 10% so they lost 90% in income because they had to help out the poor.




Not for the poor. If they make nothing they don’t pay the tithe. So that would include the stranger, the widow and the orphan. They paid 0% tithe.


Another thing to consider is that those who were able were suppose to lend to their brother in the Lord. And if the 7th year of debt forgiveness was close, he was to loan him the money, knowing he would never get the full amount back.


And there was also the Year of Jubilee where all debt was forgiven.


We are to help the poor, especially the wealthy who have abundant blessings from God. James told the rich to be rich in good works.


I also believe that God has so blessed America so that we can help the poor countries that are starving to death and have no water wells and die of thirst.


I don’t believe we should give hand outs to those who can work and refuse to. But we have people who can’t work because of disabilities, sickness and disease.


I don’t know what the rich are paying now, but the top 1% use to pay less tax percentage wise than anyone else. Maybe they’ve already corrected that, I don’t know.


But there will never be a flat tax here in America.


Those who work and struggle to make ends meet should be exempt from paying taxes. Why would we want to hinder them and cause the to struggle more than they already are.


And it sounds nice that we should willing help and not be forced. But man’s heart isn’t prone to doing that willingly. I think that’s why God commanded His chosen nation to help the poor.

I'm afraid you have too much "Bleeding Heart Liberalism" in you for us to ever fully agree on this. Your final paragraph shows a leaning toward forced control that I just don't see in Jesus.

 

[Willie-T]

We've still got a lot of power outages right around us. We are OK, ourselves.

I have a powerful generator that could be used by people needing it... but it still sits in our garage. Why? Because I will not offer it to several neighbors who have demonstrated carelessness and irresponsibility in the past. And one neighbor I did offer it to felt that my requirement that he ONLY use Ethanol Free gasoline in it, was too restrictive.... since it costs more to purchase that fuel.

The generator cost well over $1,000, and I just paid $100 to have it overhauled. Am I supposed to loan it out just because someone else chose to, perhaps, buy cigarettes, several new Smart Phones, and this year's automobile instead of also spending his money on his own generator?

I think not.

 

[notmyown]

i thought the rich already support the poor to some extent, and willingly.

start a business, hire some people, voilà?

that said, i think a flat tax, with exceptions at the bottom of the ladder, and including corporations, makes sense.
but then, i'm no economist!

 

[Willie-T]

i thought the rich already support the poor to some extent, and willingly.

start a business, hire some people, voilà?

that said, i think a flat tax, with exceptions at the bottom of the ladder, and including corporations, makes sense.
but then, i'm no economist!

Actually, without rich people (like PRESIDENT Trump) creating jobs..... sometimes several thousand of them.... there would be very few jobs for the rest of us to draw a paycheck from.

 

[notmyown]

Actually, without rich people (like PRESIDENT Trump) creating jobs..... sometimes several thousand of them.... there would be very few jobs for the rest of us to draw a paycheck from.

i find i much prefer the idea of private sector jobs to the government creating them.

with my flat tax fantasy, i'd get rid of loads of loopholes. but then, i'm no economist. lol

 

[JosephsDreams]

We've still got a lot of power outages right around us. We are OK, ourselves.

I have a powerful generator that could be used by people needing it... but it still sits in our garage. Why? Because I will not offer it to several neighbors who have demonstrated carelessness and irresponsibility in the past. And one neighbor I did offer it to felt that my requirement that he ONLY use Ethanol Free gasoline in it, was too restrictive.... since it costs more to purchase that fuel.

The generator cost well over $1,000, and I just paid $100 to have it overhauled. Am I supposed to loan it out just because someone else chose to, perhaps, buy cigarettes, several new Smart Phones, and this year's automobile instead of also spending his money on his own generator?



I think not.

Reminds me if a old Twilight Zone episode where the first half was set in a small town and the talk was of the Cold War and a possible nuclear attack. Most believed it would never happen. Some thought it could. Only one family prepared for it, stocking the basement with food, installing thick steel doors, etc.

So sure enough the second half is about a announcement by the government that a nuclear attack is imminent.
Of course all the neifghbirs want to join the family in the basement.

The husband/dad wants to help but he can't. If he does it will be overcrowded and there will not be enough food or even room to sleep. He tells them you all had had same chance to prepare that I did.

He closes the steel door and shuts them out. The kids and wife/mom are in or near tears.

The episode ends like that. Rod Sterling was a great writer. He got people thinking.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Rich people have a morale obligation to help out the poor. They should bd free to choose how they want to do it. For that matter the same goes for the middle class too.

The Government ideally should be a adjunct.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

this is the key. there is a big difference between helping someone who needs it and just supporting someone who does nothing.

I know GOD sees a person's heart,but how would man know who sincerely needs help and who Is milking the system.

 

[Willie-T]

Reminds me if a old Twilight Zone episode where the first half was set in a small town and the talk was of the Cold War and a possible nuclear attack. Most believed it would never happen. Some thought it could. Only one family prepared for it, stocking the basement with food, installing thick steel doors, etc.

So sure enough the second half is about a announcement by the government that a nuclear attack is imminent.
Of course all the neifghbirs want to join the family in the basement.

The husband/dad wants to help but he can't. If he does it will be overcrowded and there will not be enough food or even room to sleep. He tells them you all had had same chance to prepare that I did.

He closes the steel door and shuts them out. The kids and wife/mom are in or near tears.

The episode ends like that. Rod Sterling was a great writer. He got people thinking.

Noah probably felt a little like this.

 

[Willie-T]

I know GOD sees a person's heart,but how would man know who sincerely needs help and who Is milking the system.

I get some hints when I am in line behind someone at the grocery store, and they pay with a Welfare Card.... then they wheel their two carts with beer and steaks out to their new Cadillac......... while I pay for my hamburger and beans with money I worked for..... and then go load it into our 1999 Mercury.

 

[Depleted]

i thought the rich already support the poor to some extent, and willingly.

start a business, hire some people, voilà?

that said, i think a flat tax, with exceptions at the bottom of the ladder, and including corporations, makes sense.
but then, i'm no economist!

We (John and I) do not fit under the poverty level, however we do fit under "no need to file income tax" levels.

That low, but we're still expected, (and rightfully so), to pay real estate taxes. It's the hidden taxes that bother me.

-- Gas isn't really $2.69 a gallon. Get rid of the taxes around here, (and I'm in Philly, where even the city taxes gas), and it would be under $2 a gallon.

-- My cellphone cost $10 a month, but I pay $15 because of taxes.

-- Internet and landline supposedly cost $60 a month. The bill is $88. (And they want me to buy cable too? Nah!)

-- Sweetened drinks cost an extra 1.5% per ounce. (Which is why we need a car -- to get out of this city to buy diet soda. lol)

Toilet paper is taxed! Tell me TP is NOT a necessity!

Given all that, even though I don't have to pay income tax at a federal level, I suspect I still pay 10% anyway.

Make the tax a flat rate, and even the poor people can afford it. After all, we're still paying plenty of taxes anyway.

And the rich? 10% of a million dollars is a lot more than 10% of $30,000. They already are paying more taxes.

 

[Depleted]

Rich people have a morale obligation to help out the poor. They should bd free to choose how they want to do it. For that matter the same goes for the middle class too.

The Government ideally should be a adjunct.

Poor people have a moral obligation to help the poor.

 

[Depleted]

I know GOD sees a person's heart,but how would man know who sincerely needs help and who Is milking the system.

You can't milk a system, if there is no system to milk!

You're kind of missing the point here. Who says a system is needed?

Actually, if you read the Law, God had a great system. Do you know what should happen to the disabled, widow or orphan? Family takes them in and they had to help out. They were called "slaves." An evil word today, but back then when John and I first became disabled either Dad or one of my siblings were supposed to take us in. And, where as we cannot do a 40 hours work week, we can help with the housework and meals. I'd rather be a slave to family then worthless and a money pit to the government.

Back in the days when Israel was observing the real law, we would have come up with ways to add income to the family. I'm good at crocheting and gardening. I'm also pretty good at baking. I could sell what I made, give 90% to the family pot and keep 10% for myself.

Seven years later, we had the choice of whether we could afford to go back on our own again, (with that 10% saved in those seven years), or to stay on.

As for milking the system? May I safely assume you have family? If so, are they stupid enough to let you milk them for seven whole years? We might be able to pull the wool over their eyes once or twice, but it is usually safe to assume family catches us first. lol

Seems to me, if Christians work this out to going back to the Bible the only thing that should shock them beyond measure is to realize they owe family enough to bring them in and take care of them when the chips are down. And, in reverse the ones being brought in and cared for owe taking care of the family that gave them a home.

I know my family. Two out of six could afford to take us in. Unfortunately, I know my family. None of them are Christians, so we living with them would be just as tough as them living with us. On the other hand, it beats living off of the US government! (And, dagnabit! We paid into that program for 50 years, so we're not simply taking without first giving. The government that now takes care of us has managed to take most of the money we did have, because of their rules.)

 

[Depleted]

Noah probably felt a little like this.

A lot like that! There is a slim chance of surviving nuclear war. There was no chance of surviving a global flood.

 

[Depleted]

I get some hints when I am in line behind someone at the grocery store, and they pay with a Welfare Card.... then they wheel their two carts with beer and steaks out to their new Cadillac......... while I pay for my hamburger and beans with money I worked for..... and then go load it into our 1999 Mercury.

Have you ever really seen that?

 

[Willie-T]

Have you ever really seen that?

Other than the fact that I can't be sure it was this year's Cadillac, OH YEAH...... several times.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am a lab tech and have worked in the medical field for almost 17 years now. I have become so desensitized its sad. The ppl I help to abuse our tax dollars is sickening. They come in with this federally funded debit card...err medical card...and the ER docs stumble over themselves like Chevy Chase when he imitated President Ford on SNL. They get admitted and get treated like royalty.

I work there and have a copay of $100 if I visit the ER. Back in June, I almost cut the tip off my left thumb off and after three xrays and 8 stitches, I am still having to pay over $500 after my insurance paid their part. Someone said medicare wasn't going to pay for certain MRI's and CT's.

There is ZERO incentive to work now. We get punished for working.

True story. This happened before my wife and I started dating. My father-in-law was once off work with heart issues. He had a temporary defibillator on his neck and my mother-in-law called to see if they could get food stamps. They asked her if they owned their home. She said yes, and they told her to sell it and live off that $ and after its gone, talk to them about getting food stamps. She said, "where are we going to live if we sell our house?!?!"

No incentive to work. Be a bum and you can live like royalty. Also, you can have a prescription card with a $1-$2 dollar copay on the meds you can then sell to neer-do-wells.

 

[hornetguy]

Have you ever really seen that?

My wife observed exactly that happening just 2 or 3 days ago, when she was in the store. Two different patrons of the store, one with (she told me the brand name, I forgot it) a very expensive purse..$300 range, a cart loaded down with junk food, grocery bill of over $200... paid with the Lone Star card, or whatever they call it. She noticed the lady loading all that up in a really nice suv... don't remember the brand or model.

The issue that we see all the time is women with 5 or 6 kids, saying she's single, getting all the benefits, kids getting free school meals, and free school supplies, while her common law husband, who she's been living with for 25 years works a full time job doing some type of construction, frequently being paid in cash, under the table.

That has become the norm in some of the ethnic communities.... but conservatives are evil because we don't want to keep getting bled dry to support these leeches. I suppose we're just heartless.