Should the rich support the poor?

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Depleted

Guest
When I say system,I was just using a figure of speech but I digress,when you say family should take care of those who have become disabled,that would be a good thing and I think that Is what families are doing now and some people are still signing up and getting benefits that they don't qualify for as Willie-T speaks about,some of those people should be working but how do we make the call of If they are qualified or not?

BTW,I'm sure you are legitimate but how would someone like Willie-T know this unless you looked the part and you bought hamburger and beans,lol.
I find the easiest way is to treat people like people and actually talk to them. No one we've ever helped "looked the part." They were the part.

-- Back when we were "normal people," one of John's jobs was to install a heater in a couple's home. Most the time, when heating mechanics install a new heater, the people are somewhere between relieved they'd have heat, and upset at how much the heater cost. This couple treated John like a rock star -- thanking in profusely, feeding him, bringing him coffee, and thanking him over and over again. He's a friendly guy, so they talked, (while he worked.) They were that excited because they had no heater the winter before. (It was autumn.) They had no heat, because he used to unload meat for the grocery store, (good pay!), but slipped on the ice on the platform and into a meat hooker. It went right through his hip. His wife was already using a walker, so no more income. That was several years earlier. They still had their house in a nice middle-class neighborhood, but no heat. The heater died. The state gave him the traditional workmen's comp -- $5000 to last him a lifetime. Eventually, (because whose to say if lacking a hip bone really stops people from being able to work?) Social Security gave them minimum -- which, at the time was $700 a month. (In today's standards, that's $1260 a month. And minimum because workman's comp, so the state was supposed to take care of him.) The county gave them the heater. John heard all this while installing that heater. We did something about it.

-- A family joined our church. Mom, Dad, three kids, and she was pregnant with a fourth. She was also in her 40s. She asked for prayers because it was a difficult pregnancy. She was supposed to stay in bed the entire nine months, but again -- three kids. I double-dog dare you to stay in bed for two days with three kids in the house. lol

-- Another couple had a collicky baby -- their first child. They didn't look the part. They were the part. Nothing wrong financially. They were about at the levels you expect of new parents, which tends to mean worrying about the baby more than considering going out and relaxing for a while.

-- One woman was in a wheelchair. She could walk with crutches, but our church had ten steps that feel like Mt. Everest if you're that wobbly anyway. And she had a daughter. We talked enough to become friends. Disabled like that her whole life. (Matter of fact, we found out she was classmates with John's brother. He was disabled too.) So she and her daughter were living on the minimum for Social Security too. Christmas was coming. Her daughter was getting the usual for Christmas -- underwear and socks. She was upset.

-- On this site is a woman whose husband is becoming aggressive. Most people tell her to get out and seek counseling. She's already told us they live in a van on a relative's property. Her husband desperately needed a job last year about this time, didn't get it, so they lost their home.

-- A young man on this site, had the money to go to law school in America two years ago, but something happened. He then had to use that money to give his mom and younger siblings a home. And he busted his butt to get work. He was a tutor and did computer work. Money ran out earlier this year. His mother and younger siblings are in a parsonage for now. He's making do, by sleeping on friend's sofas or floors at night and looking for work in the day time. Can't seem to save to get his family back together.

-- A young woman from India asked for prayers several months ago. Her family was making ends meet, until her father was diagnosed with cancer. Treatment cost 65 a week. (No idea what that is, or how that translates into our money.) It's also a providence or two away from where they live. I remember her because she asked for prayer, and I really wish I had enough to send to her as an answer to prayer, but I don't.

It's really not all that hard to figure out who needs what. It's doing something about it that takes effort.

From what I see in this thread, it's not doing something about it that's the problem. It's all those lazy saps' fault. And, once established it's not MY fault, I am no longer in need of looking for ways to help or for who to help.
 
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I ain't going to be no one's slave. I'll leech off the gov't and bleed it dry, bone dry.

That's 1/2 my family's attitude.
And, judging from your attitude, probably the reason few in your family talk to you.

Truthfully, I know what went wrong in your state. Byrd!

At a national level, he was similar to LBJ -- let us assume these particular people are too stupid to take care of themselves, so we'll take care of them. Many bought into it, and it's become a culture. It's a generation or two later, and the oligarchy has made sure no one was allowed to talk against their control, so the only thing that is left is to scold people who don't know they were used.

I knew I could choose to get an education to land a job worthwhile because I was raised in a culture that taught me that. Had I never known that, no idea what I would have done when I grew up.

And, add to that, as things turned out, even that education wasn't enough to save me from needing the government to take care of me.

After all, very rare to find Christians that would help. Too many are telling me it's all my fault because I am a lazy schlep. I got that loud and clear. Me and your family are lazy. No need to repeat. Loud. And. Clear.
 
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The reason why many of these women are raising kids by themselves is they hop from man to man like a rabbit. No decent man will hitch their wagon to women of that ilk. That's why they always have men of the baser sort, as that's all that will have them.

Sorry, but that's the cold, hard, sad truth.
Sure, and both Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
And, judging from your attitude, probably the reason few in your family talk to you.

Truthfully, I know what went wrong in your state. Byrd!

At a national level, he was similar to LBJ -- let us assume these particular people are too stupid to take care of themselves, so we'll take care of them. Many bought into it, and it's become a culture. It's a generation or two later, and the oligarchy has made sure no one was allowed to talk against their control, so the only thing that is left is to scold people who don't know they were used.

I knew I could choose to get an education to land a job worthwhile because I was raised in a culture that taught me that. Had I never known that, no idea what I would have done when I grew up.

And, add to that, as things turned out, even that education wasn't enough to save me from needing the government to take care of me.

After all, very rare to find Christians that would help. Too many are telling me it's all my fault because I am a lazy schlep. I got that loud and clear. Me and your family are lazy. No need to repeat. Loud. And. Clear.
have you never met anyone cheating the system for extra free time and to support their drug habbits....

ive seen these lazy people myself


and i would never accuse you of being one of them


but ya.... there are leeches

who are proud to get "free money" others work for
 
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Depleted

Guest
Excellent question,I wonder how people get to stereotyping others
It is true that some people do milk the system. My estimation? (And I've studied this on a very personal level.) About 10%.

And do notice, every one they actually see is that 10%. They don't notice the quiet ones in front of them in the checkout line. The ones sorting their food items from their non-food items. (Toilet paper, deodorant, cleaning products. Food stamps only pay for food.) They don't notice the change purses coming out. (Who has change purses anymore?) They don't notice the fish being handed back, simply because you can make more meals out of a pound of burger than you can a pound of fish, and the person couldn't afford both. They didn't notice that box of cornflakes certainly wasn't Kellogg's, and it ends up it doesn't matter. Toast for breakfast, or let's just skip breakfast here and there. They don't notice longing looks at such silly things as a bottle of vitamins. A bottle of vitamins might keep me healthier, but just once, I'd like to live like a rich person, so I'm going for that bag of chips. It's cheaper. And they have no idea that bottle of vinegar is for cleaning, because it's "food" and much cheaper than a bottle of spray cleaner.

And they don't notice the granny bag full of nine pounds of meat -- enough to feed two for 31 days -- being hauled onto the bus because that store across the city was cheaper than the one closest to home. Cheaper even after the bus trip.

It's easy to notice the ones that cheat. It's easier to not notice the ones who don't.

Sort of like handicap parking spaces. Unless a wheelchair is required the second you get out of the car, people will assume you're cheating there too.
 

Corbinscam

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2016
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It is odd, but I have noticed that people who choose to live on the dole, also tend to tell you of the several "alphabet" disorders they have. (ADD, ADHD, OCD, etc.) It's a pretty consistent combination. I think it develops into a mindset of helpless dependency.
I agree with this. Not because I think letter disorders ruin a person (I have a few...not ocd.....but a couple lol) but because I think society at large sees them as disabilities and creates people with the idea that they're incapable of living a successful life with them....Which is absolute crap. They're something I have not who I am.
 
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Depleted

Guest
Well, I sure hope they are trying to get a handle on it.
Which way do you think this should go? More inspectors to spy on people, or maybe you report the cheaters?

For every cheater, that's that much less people who really need the help who won't get it.

One of two things happen if you do what you're supposed to do -- you get someone who doesn't "deserve" it off the dole, or you take the time to find out what's really happening.

My neighbor goes shopping every week in an upscale car. She lives in an upscale house too. She moved in, a young woman with a husband and their two little kids 20 years ago. Bought the house at fixer-upper prices, and then they gutted it and made it truly spectacular.

If that's what you want to see, that's the end of the story. But if you get to know her, you learn the rest. Her husband died several years ago. His Social Security check pays the mortgage each month. The rest is on her. You can see her walking down the street to a neighbor's house with her bucket, mop, and broom. She still smokes, even after her stent. She was rooting for me to become an exsmoker, as much as I root for her.

There is a tradition in our neighborhood of one neighbor becoming "mayor." Not the elected position that gets you a nice office in City Hall. The one who looks out for everyone in the neighborhood. She got that job somehow. (Personality. lol) She was the one promoting the new barber shop on the corner. ("Really nice guys.") She's the one who waters plants in front of people's homes if they go to the shore all summer. She's the one who got neighbors helping us when she found out what happened to John. And she's the one who rings the doorbell if someone has a problem. (She came with a neighbor two days ago. He didn't speak English and I don't speak Italian, so she translated. He was worried about his SIL who lives three doors down. He doesn't have a key to her house, so he wanted to go through ours to try her back door. Didn't have to. They discovered SIL walking up the block while asking. Stuff like that.)

And that upscale car? Her daughter's. They shop together. (It's nice seeing the next generation playing around her steps now. No idea how we got this old this fast. And let's just skip I'm older than she is even. lol)

No idea if she gets food stamps or not. Doesn't matter. I'm just glad she's part of the neighborhood.

But, frankly, I can guess at a lot of things going on behind the scenes that most don't consider unless they've had to live like that.

It may well be true they are scamming the system. Why not find out?
 
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Jennie-Mae

Guest
I can't address all of what you're saying, depleted, but you make some good points that I didn't think of.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Some interesting verses for Bleeding Hearts who think poor people MUST be "championed" just because of their economic status.

"You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you shall judge your neighbor fairly." (Leviticus 19:15).

We may not mechanically assume that the poor man's cause is right. "The first to plead his case seems just, until another comes and examines him," (Proverbs 18:17).

The issue in justice is not, Which one is the underdog? but, Which one is right? And the standard of justice is not relative wealth or poverty, but the abiding law of God.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Some interesting verses for Bleeding Hearts who think poor people MUST be "championed" just because of their economic status.

"You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you shall judge your neighbor fairly." (Leviticus 19:15).

We may not mechanically assume that the poor man's cause is right. "The first to plead his case seems just, until another comes and examines him," (Proverbs 18:17).

The issue in justice is not, Which one is the underdog? but, Which one is right? And the standard of justice is not relative wealth or poverty, but the abiding law of God.
some more interesting verses


Acts 20:35 - I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.


Luke Chapter 21


1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.



should those with wealth be MADE to give what they have recieved away?

i dont see why



but if we have been given much...it does seem pretty messed up to not use any of the wealth we accumulate for anything other than our own desires


Proverbs 21:13 - Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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You seem to have "injected" something into the conversation that Willie did not say. Wille said 'someone' [ at the grocery store ] - who seems to be able to buy things that he ( Willie ) cannot afford to buy - paying for two carts full of things that most people would not think someone who is "poverty-stricken" would be able to afford - with government assistance money -- leaving in a luxury car that most people would not think someone who is "poverty-stricken" would be able to afford.

And, you seem to think that you - among [ many ? ] others - fall under this description...???

Does Willie's description describe you?

Who exactly is 'us'?
I've had discussions with Willie-T before and I have come to a conclusion,By The Way,Yes my nationality Is African American.:)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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I've had discussions with Willie-T before and I have come to a conclusion,By The Way,Yes my nationality Is African American.:)
And that conclusion is...........?

(Be careful of your answer, because I just may well tell you exactly who it was that taught me to see it.)
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
some more interesting verses


Acts 20:35 - I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.


Luke Chapter 21


1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.



should those with wealth be MADE to give what they have recieved away?

i dont see why



but if we have been given much...it does seem pretty messed up to not use any of the wealth we accumulate for anything other than our own desires


Proverbs 21:13 - Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
not at all like thats what you are implying willie

just saying


charity is something that will come from people being led by the Holy spirit


but to enforce %s and take away initiative
and have a third (untrustworthy) party choose how to use this mandatory "charity" .... seems like a far less effective idea in most cases
 

jenniferand2

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2016
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Considering extra taxes on the rich, (a greater % than the rest of us pay) how do you stand on this issue?

Some hold that the Christian is not motivated by considerations of law, but by love instead. I think this is to place an unbiblical distinction between law and love, a distinction opposed by the Apostles. "Love," said Paul, "is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:10). "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments," John wrote (1 John 5:3).

The standard of love is, Biblically, nothing other than the law of God. If we are disobedient to the law of God, it has to be said we do not love; conversely, if we do not love, we are breaking the law, which commands us to love.

If, in the name of "love for the poor," I transgress God's law by supporting legal plunder (excessive taxation) of my rich neighbor to fund a poverty program, am I really loving that neighbor, regardless of my profession of love? For isn't love always concerned to fulfill the law of God? Where that concern is absent, does "equal" love really exist? Is there love for that neighbor when I support his taxes being raised when he has not freely chosen to donate to that poverty program?

How say ye on such as this?
let me touch on this a little bit.... I am not ashamed to say that in times I have had a form of assistance or another due to my health problems. I do not like relying on having these services as I am a very independent person.. Now as far as taxes go when i worked my part time job a few years ago before I got hurt i was paying out the nose in social sec taxes and other taxes so probably ten percent of my check was gone before i even got it in my hand. that being said a 20 hour work week would give me something like 120 bucks maybe.. So if your going to do a one size fits all kind of tax for people that may not work as some people do not get to work full time.. the taxes going in brackets based on income is a good thing I think do I think people who are rich should have to be over taxed because they make more not really some people have busted their tails going to college for several years to make that money.Then you have the people who just make butt loads of money for really not doing much well those people I guess you would have to put in the category of people who have got of their butts and made something of themselves.. So i say keeping a tax bracket is good but over taxing people because they accomplished things in life I do not agree with. The bible says we should love our neighbors like we love God so anyone with half of a godly heart that makes tons of money a year would not let people starve or go with out why because the have the Lord in their heart and they do unto others. So if your Godly person and help that is amazing. If you not a godly person and help out people who are poor great.. I find that most people except people who have no soul will help one another in need. Look at all that is going on with the huricaines in Texas and Florida people are flocking together to help one another and guess what it is not a must do thing.
I guess my point is that people who make decent money and have a heart would help out anyways. But to tax the death out of them because they busted their butts and got a degree in something to make something of them selves is wrong. I understand that rich people can afford the higher taxes etc. But it is a principle they should be able to enjoy their money they work hard for and if they want to donate it great and if not that is their right..
Their needs to be more incentive to get people off the system who are sitting around soaking it up because they know they can.. Seeing how I have been in this situation I will give you some info here.. People living on the system if they get off and work a min wage job will half to pay a percentage of daycare costs if they have kids they have to pay for gas etc to get to job... by the time they get paid they have crap left for money because day care and gas took a ll their pay. So they system is set up that if you make one dollar over x amount of dollars you get no help at all or so little help it doe not make you going out to get a job worth it..... Most people will not get off the system because they can not afford to sustain themselves on working pay. So they sit on their butts and stay dirt poor..
If you make it so people who work to get off the system did not lose certain things the second they start work then more people would be getting off their butts to work. but the fear of losing the safety they have even if it is barley livable is more real then getting a job and flying on their own. It is a fear factor and it is real..... the system needs to be set up like it was in the first days it started welfare was assistance for working people who needed extra help.. now granted their are people who need it because of health reasons...... so they are a different story but the moochers will never get off because they are afraid of losing what little security they have...

point made the system is a mess and rich people should not be taxed to death to pay for moochers... there should be a tax bracket for sure but not to the point that it kills people or takes all their hard earned money.. Anything people want to donate after that the more power to them. I think you would find that most people rich or poor would want to help their struggling neighbors if they could and their neighbors truly needed it..
 

jenniferand2

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2016
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i also think we need to look at other countries who have systems that seem to work alot better and try to implement some of them here.. Canada has free medical how does that hinder their people. Denmark has no tuition for college i think how does that hinder their people etc....


p.s. it does not help we have so many political crooks in this country who make more money then a saudi oil field makes but then they ***** about the government programs being over used... hello maybe you should quit pocketing so much dang money jerk wads
 

jenniferand2

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2016
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ture story we have a judge here in rochester who thinks it is a game to sit around get drunk drive around not caring about who she kills. She just spent three weeks in jail has been dissmissed with pay from her job and is still laughing in the face of all the people getting drunk taking trips to to the east. all the while sitting back laughing collecting her 175 000 dollar a year salary they tax payers pay her.....
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Canada has free medical
Canada does not have free medical. We pay a monthly fee whether we need medical care or not. That is not free! The cost to me currently is seventy five dollars a month. Not long ago it was less than half that. And now we have a two tiered system, much to the chagrin of many.
 
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Seed,
This brings out immediate prejudice in me. Does it in you? (Guess who I see as a low-life, and who I see as a working man doing a good job?)

 

Corbinscam

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2016
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And why do people pull the "you're a racist" crap? I know as many white lazy people as I do any other race. I'm related to a ton of them. It isn't about race. It's about people expecting a hand out when they aren't willing to work at all and are totally capable of it.