Not By Works
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I think I have a better handle now on this works versus grace subject after going through the hurricane and seeing our house kept safe, yet all around us trees went down.
Metaphorically, we have returned to the garden of Eden. There Adam and Eve had everythings supplied to them, and they fellowshipped with the Lord on a daily basis. It wasn't until the shining one...false light....came and tempted them both to want knowledge rather than truth...that trouble came to them, and they became self sufficient.
I remember a post by phart I think it was, speaking of being persecuted by the brethren...but it isn't those who work that will be persecuted, but those who trust the Lord in all things.
Jealousy is the evil that will rise in this day. And I see the start of it now..
Get on board and trust the Lord for daily bread. For all things.
Metaphorically, we have returned to the garden of Eden. There Adam and Eve had everythings supplied to them, and they fellowshipped with the Lord on a daily basis. It wasn't until the shining one...false light....came and tempted them both to want knowledge rather than truth...that trouble came to them, and they became self sufficient.
I remember a post by phart I think it was, speaking of being persecuted by the brethren...but it isn't those who work that will be persecuted, but those who trust the Lord in all things.
Jealousy is the evil that will rise in this day. And I see the start of it now..
Get on board and trust the Lord for daily bread. For all things.
Psalm 37:1-5, “1 Do not fret because of evil-doers, Do not be envious of the workers of unrighteousness. 2 For they soon wither like grass, And fade like green plants. 3 Trust in יהוה, and do right; Dwell in the earth, and feed on faithfullness. 4 And delight yourself in יהוה, And let Him give you the desires of your heart. 5 Commit your way to יהוה, And trust in Him, and He does it.”
Question for you Preacher, and this maybe a little off topic; Do you have knowledge of Anabaptists or the Plymouth Brethren at all. The Church that I was involved with in Chiang Mai, Thailand was called, "The Chiang Mai Baptist Group" about 10 to 15 believer's worshiped on Sunday Morning; Pastor Jack is a humble Christian with an Anabaptist theological background and we would occasionally have one or two Plymouth Brethren join our Sunday Worship. Pastor Jack and his Thai wife were founders and minister's of an orphanage in Chiang Mai.
I asked Pastor Jack why he chose the term "Group of" rather than "Church of" and his answer was because we have not been established long enough to use the title Church. And regarding the Plymouth Brethren who would attend our group they do not worship in a Church building as well, am I right. Looking for all of your vast knowledge concerning Christian theology....
A sincere question because my wife and I are making plans to visit family in Thailand God willing within the next few months, maybe by Christmas. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Truth
I asked Pastor Jack why he chose the term "Group of" rather than "Church of" and his answer was because we have not been established long enough to use the title Church. And regarding the Plymouth Brethren who would attend our group they do not worship in a Church building as well, am I right. Looking for all of your vast knowledge concerning Christian theology....
A sincere question because my wife and I are making plans to visit family in Thailand God willing within the next few months, maybe by Christmas. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Truth
As far as I am concerned if the person relies solely upon the work of Christ and being robed in His righteousness for salvation, that, since it is good enough for God, it's most definitely good enough for me!
P
I do believe that. That's why I continue to believe. He's the only way I can be saved. I can only continue to believe and be saved because of his power. He doesn't do my believing for me. He didn't when I first got saved. And he doesn't now. That's my responsibility. But I can only believe because he gives the gracious gift of faith--the ability to even know the gospel is true--to do that believing. That's why I can't boast in my believing. I can't do that on my own. I have to choose to rely on Christ to continually show me the gospel is true so I can then continue to trust in that truth.
So do you. It seems you (sometimes) also believe that one must abide to remain saved, if I'm not mistaken. It's just that you think every believer will always abide.
I don't think you disagree with the requirement to continue to believe to be saved. You just think that all believers without exception will always believe as if God does our believing for us. God did not do my believing for me when I first got saved. He provided the power (the faith, the confidence) for me to choose to believe, but he did not do the believing required to be saved for me. Nor does he now somehow do that believing for me this many years later. He provides the supernatural ability to know the gospel is true, but he does not do my believing/trusting for me.
You have not successfully shown from Hebrews itself how the plain words of Hebrews 10 don't really mean what they plainly say--you just keep saying they 'don't really' mean what they say. The words are so plain it's impossible to strain out a way for those plain words to not mean what they say by claiming other more vague passage of scripture makes them not mean what they plainly say. My use of scripture does not nullify the scriptures you use. But your interpretation of various isolated scripture DOES nullify the scriptures I use. My argument does not cause contradiction in the scriptures. Your's does.
All you have to do is show us the passage of scripture that describes the 'work' of believing as a work of the damnable works gospel and this thread can be closed. But you won't do that because you can't do that. There is no verse that explains or even hints at faith being on the works side of Paul's 'works vs. faith for justification' argument. But you continue to insist that people accept your non-Biblical teaching that the 'work' of faith is indeed a damnable work of the 'works save' gospel.
You can not insist people believe something that the Bible does not teach, and which the Bible plainly teaches exactly the OPPOSITE about--that faith is in stark and utter contrast to works of the law in regard to what can and can not justify. You especially can not do that to a Berean. Faith is not a work that can not justify. It DOES justify, but for some reason the church has decided that even the work of believing is a damnable work that can not justify. How absurd. But that is where the church is now.
Show me where the Bible is clear that my believing, my trusting in Christ for salvation, constitutes a works based religion. Be honest. You know it isn't there. You've gone off into an absurd, misguided teaching presently making it's way through the church and you have to find the courage to admit it simply isn't in or supported by the Bible. If it was supported by the Bible, you'd post the passage(s) that show it is. But as it is, you can't. They don't exist.
So do you. It seems you (sometimes) also believe that one must abide to remain saved, if I'm not mistaken. It's just that you think every believer will always abide.
I don't think you disagree with the requirement to continue to believe to be saved. You just think that all believers without exception will always believe as if God does our believing for us. God did not do my believing for me when I first got saved. He provided the power (the faith, the confidence) for me to choose to believe, but he did not do the believing required to be saved for me. Nor does he now somehow do that believing for me this many years later. He provides the supernatural ability to know the gospel is true, but he does not do my believing/trusting for me.
You have not successfully shown from Hebrews itself how the plain words of Hebrews 10 don't really mean what they plainly say--you just keep saying they 'don't really' mean what they say. The words are so plain it's impossible to strain out a way for those plain words to not mean what they say by claiming other more vague passage of scripture makes them not mean what they plainly say. My use of scripture does not nullify the scriptures you use. But your interpretation of various isolated scripture DOES nullify the scriptures I use. My argument does not cause contradiction in the scriptures. Your's does.
All you have to do is show us the passage of scripture that describes the 'work' of believing as a work of the damnable works gospel and this thread can be closed. But you won't do that because you can't do that. There is no verse that explains or even hints at faith being on the works side of Paul's 'works vs. faith for justification' argument. But you continue to insist that people accept your non-Biblical teaching that the 'work' of faith is indeed a damnable work of the 'works save' gospel.
You can not insist people believe something that the Bible does not teach, and which the Bible plainly teaches exactly the OPPOSITE about--that faith is in stark and utter contrast to works of the law in regard to what can and can not justify. You especially can not do that to a Berean. Faith is not a work that can not justify. It DOES justify, but for some reason the church has decided that even the work of believing is a damnable work that can not justify. How absurd. But that is where the church is now.
Show me where the Bible is clear that my believing, my trusting in Christ for salvation, constitutes a works based religion. Be honest. You know it isn't there. You've gone off into an absurd, misguided teaching presently making it's way through the church and you have to find the courage to admit it simply isn't in or supported by the Bible. If it was supported by the Bible, you'd post the passage(s) that show it is. But as it is, you can't. They don't exist.
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Yeah, I can relate to that. I had to buy a 4 cup coffee pot to cut down on my coffee intake, lol. But sadly it only fills less than two cups of my coffee mug. Making the coffee is priority number one after I get out of bed. I buy coffee from a local Coffee Roaster store, and they use a new Roasting method, where they roast the beans with hot air. It supposedly preserves more of the coffee bean flavor than the drum oven roasting method. All I know is it sure tastes better than the coffee that I used to buy at the grocery store.
