Not By Works

[joefizz]

You are suffering from the term absolutes, or perfection, or it must be this or nothing.
And also you are confusing Holy and defiled with possible future defilement denies current
holiness.

We are holy when we have confessed our sin and been cleansed through the blood of Christ.

It does not mean we will sin and be defiled again or we will not, it means we are clean.
Some cannot accept this simple reality of holiness and cleansing.

Jesus is saying to you and me, sin with communion with Him is not inevitable. What I hear
is yes it is, so stop trying to believe you can walk with Christ and accept we are fallen and
lost, and it is all futile. But that is the world speaking not Jesus.

Now salvation is not about the righteous walk but the relationship, a living caring, breathing
relationship founded in Holiness. It is the fruit of this that brings the walk and overcoming,
that pumps in love and transformation, that orders emotions and responses.

So many are in unbelief, and closed minded. Peter rebelled and denied Jesus. What was Jesus's
prayer? Not that he repented but that he did not lose faith. It is faith and trust, knowing as
repentant sinners God will walk with us, through our frailty, with a great deal of patience and love,
working through each issue slowly.

Sin is a distraction, an excuse, action caused by frustration, hurt and a lack of knowing Gods
intention. We can use sin to hide from the hurts of failure, our hope of aspiring to love and then
be rejected is very hard. But do you love Jesus? Not a little, but with everything you are?

Then you should be able to risk this and start to praise and burn like a light for Him.
Sin is always the selfish soothing for disappointment, something taken rather than earnt,
revenge against some action or slight not deserved.

You need to see spiritual wisdom, the source of our life is God, the part of the vine which
is the Body of Christ, the thing that gives us all that we have. Amen.

a small note - sin never lingers in the background, fear of disappointment does.
Sin are actions, either forgiven and dealt with or unresolved or else not there.

once again not accurate,sin is not just physical actions,for just as Jesus said "what one taketh in doth not defile what cometh out from the heart defileth for the heart is deceitful and out from it proceedeth,murderers,adulterers,fornicators this that which defileth a man"
so once again sin comes out from "US" it's not an action you keep from to be rid of it is things of the imagination of the heart that are unrighteous,you see so long as we are in the flesh we are afflicted by sin not until "After" Judgement day and all those who are faithful to God are received through Jesus,will have glorified bodies,then and only then will we who are faithful be without sin,holy,and pure.
You seem to just skip to you having a glorified body being holy and pure,which is nonsense,you speak as if one that has accepted Jesus so why can't you just accept your place as a Sinner,whom is not to be spouting that you are holy or pure instead you ought to be focusing on teaching and sharing what you actually know of God's word,not trying to delude yourself and others,any one of us could do the same mocking God proclaiming we are holy and pure,but those who know better and have accepted our place as "Servant" to God,simply will not do this for we "Fear" God and "have faith" in his word not our own "wishful thinking".

 

[Magenta]

Please tell me where in the world do the word's "Jesus Spray" come from. Have I lived a sheltered life or; are these word's that PeterJen's has just made up in his mind. If this is a common phrase please tell me; who on earth of would even dare mention the Son of God in such terms, just sayin'

It's just one of many in his arsenal of derogatory comments meant to convey his disdain and condemnation.

 

[joefizz]

................ View attachment 174519


View attachment 174520


View attachment 174521

Correct "All" is "Vanity" Miss lady!

 

[TruthTalk]

It's just one of many in his arsenal of derogatory comments meant to convey his disdain and condemnation.

Thank you Magenta, his judgmental attitude is just one of many reasons why I chose to banished him to CC Ignoredom.

 

[joefizz]

You all are sinners.

I however, am sinless perfection.

Because I have coffee and chocolate... View attachment 174613


LOL

Strange how one can't understand how ridiculous that sounds because,to be "Holy" one must be sinless yet this same person peter says he does sin,thereby making a contradiction yet somehow he believes he is not,belief is one thing but making no sense is another.

 

[PeterJens]

It's just one of many in his arsenal of derogatory comments meant to convey his disdain and condemnation.

View attachment 174614

Magenta - You guys are so confused, you do not even know what you are saying.

I am suggesting dealing with Christ as if he is a cleansing spray is wrong.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is like an anti-sin spray? Because it appears to me
that is the crazy idea you are suggesting is ok.

Else you are condemning me over something I did not mean or say.

How is it you claim to have the higher ground and see fit to condemn me?
I see you own behaviour speaks for itself, and how lost in these concepts you truly are.

 

[joefizz]

Thank you Magenta, his judgmental attitude is just one of many reasons why I chose to banished him to CC Ignoredom.

actually ignore doesn't do any good after all if a person knows they are on ignore then they may just take advantage and spout out even more,having no technical person to correct them,so still no ignore from me.

 

[PeterJens]

In my opinion, people worship the cross too much. They should instead be worshipping the One who died upon it... "Look to the cross." "Hold tight to the cross".. NOOOO... Look to JESUS. Hold tight to Jesus. The cross is just two big planks of wood fashioned together. It isn't an idol, or shouldn't be, anyway. Trust in God's love, not in a wooden cross with no power to take away sins, love people or give salvation to those who seek it. GOD has the power, the cross does not. JMO

Blue - You have a good heart. The reason why people refer to the cross so much, is
as a verbal pointer to Christ dying on the cross is a measure of the infinite nature of
love He shows through this one action, determined from eternity to save us.

So these believers are worshipping Jesus in their words, they are honouring that which
He cares about most deeply, that love might be born into the hearts of men.

I think these expressions show how one believers way of expressing worship and love
can be miss-understood by another. It is why we need grace, patience and love to
spend time listening and getting to know people before we jump to the wrong conclusions.

 

[PeterJens]

once again not accurate,sin is not just physical actions,for just as Jesus said "what one taketh in doth not defile what cometh out from the heart defileth for the heart is deceitful and out from it proceedeth,murderers,adulterers,fornicators this that which defileth a man"
so once again sin comes out from "US" it's not an action you keep from to be rid of it is things of the imagination of the heart that are unrighteous,you see so long as we are in the flesh we are afflicted by sin not until "After" Judgement day and all those who are faithful to God are received through Jesus,will have glorified bodies,then and only then will we who are faithful be without sin,holy,and pure.
You seem to just skip to you having a glorified body being holy and pure,which is nonsense,you speak as if one that has accepted Jesus so why can't you just accept your place as a Sinner,whom is not to be spouting that you are holy or pure instead you ought to be focusing on teaching and sharing what you actually know of God's word,not trying to delude yourself and others,any one of us could do the same mocking God proclaiming we are holy and pure,but those who know better and have accepted our place as "Servant" to God,simply will not do this for we "Fear" God and "have faith" in his word not our own "wishful thinking".

Thankyou for the effort.

We are Gods Holy people. How else can we lift Holy Hands in worship to our King.
How can Paul encourage Timothy to live a pure, holy life.

How can Peter repeat Gods command, "Be Holy because I am Holy."

And sin are actions. Actions of speech, actions of imagination, actions of our body.
And these actions come from our hearts and defile us.

I suggest however you are constructing your theology and ideas you are not reading
scripture properly. What is sad is you are trying to rebuke me about the wrong things,
and I am just following scripture. The fact you condemn yourself as an unforgiven sinner
is your own problem before God, because God will forgive and cleanse you through Jesus
if you believe Him to do this.

You believe the physical body is innately evil and sinful, like the gnostics.
This ofcourse contradicts scripture. Listen to John

Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
rev 22:11

If no one is ever holy, then a holy person does not actually exist.

If you cannot be pure, why does Jesus say
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." Matt 5:8

If there are no pure in heart, or a possibility of this, why did Jesus say they will
see God, because no one will ever be there.

Now it is easy to draw the conclusions you have drawn because they come from
this world.

 

[joefizz]

Magenta - I do not need to establish being loving, humble pure and holy, God has made me
like this. Has not God also made you like this as you walk with Him?

This is a typical example of the problem we have in our perception of being born again and our
walk.

Most people I know are excessively humble and self depricating. I know some very talented people
who have been crushed by life, and devalue all they contribute. It is a privilege to know them, and
to offer my praise, thanks and support to help them see the blessing they really are.

We often do not give people time or space, just to be, and share and know they are valued.
Education sometimes robs people of their value, because it says unless you are powerful, recognised
you do not matter. Jesus says the opposite. You matter to the creator, He will come and talk with
you. What a King and Lord we have. The King came to my house today, and says He will come
everyday I am alive. Great glory to this King who saved us.

And because He came, He made me Holy. Thankyou Jesus.

Does God come to your house, and has His presence made it Holy? God does not devalue you,
He has said you are worthy of His time and energy, to believe and trust Him, my friends, my brothers
and sisters.

God hath made no man holy or pure only Jesus who came as a man was sinless,through him we are cleansed,and strengthened through him,we are not made holy or pure through Jesus,cleansed yes holy no,this is where you keep "Lieing" or ignorantly making a false claim of yourself,you are not holy I am not holy,if you continue down this path of ignorance it will only lead you to the fallen lucifer as master,despite your claims of being for Jesus,many claim to know Jesus yet proudly declare things about themselves,I have seen this behaviour before,especially in the sin sick who do not want correction nor do they truly love Jesus,if you truly love Jesus then stop trying to act as if you are any comparison to him you are not holy if you can understand this then you will grow in Christ Jesus,because whether you realize it or not claiming you are holy and pure is the same as boasting with a proud look which is abominable to God.

 

[TruthTalk]

actually ignore doesn't do any good after all if a person knows they are on ignore then they may just take advantage and spout out even more,having no technical person to correct them,so still no ignore from me.

I disagree, when someone is on ignore my life becomes more peaceful, ignore works for me.

 

[joefizz]

Thankyou for the effort.

We are Gods Holy people. How else can we lift Holy Hands in worship to our King.
How can Paul encourage Timothy to live a pure, holy life.

How can Peter repeat Gods command, "Be Holy because I am Holy."

And sin are actions. Actions of speech, actions of imagination, actions of our body.
And these actions come from our hearts and defile us.

I suggest however you are constructing your theology and ideas you are not reading
scripture properly. What is sad is you are trying to rebuke me about the wrong things,
and I am just following scripture. The fact you condemn yourself as an unforgiven sinner
is your own problem before God, because God will forgive and cleanse you through Jesus
if you believe Him to do this.

You believe the physical body is innately evil and sinful, like the gnostics.
This ofcourse contradicts scripture. Listen to John

Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
rev 22:11

If no one is ever holy, then a holy person does not actually exist.

If you cannot be pure, why does Jesus say
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." Matt 5:8

If there are no pure in heart, or a possibility of this, why did Jesus say they will
see God, because no one will ever be there.

Now it is easy to draw the conclusions you have drawn because they come from
this world.

My conclusions are not of this world my conclusions are that of the holy spirit clearly God wants you to understand that we are not as Jesus,your bits of scripture like Revelation 22:11 it speaks on labels of people,that each person has for themself,because imagine if John had told people all that he witnessed,many would have been against what he was saying,and further do wrong,instead the sayings of the bible were to speak,Jesus wasn't saying there actually were any men or women who were holy,more of simply speaking to leave them be regarding John,because if he spoke the things he saw people would believe on him and not upon God,so as that they wouldn't have faith upon God and in Jesus's promise.
The other scripture in matthew I already spoke on,children are pure in heart not Men or Women.

 

[PeterJens]

actually ignore doesn't do any good after all if a person knows they are on ignore then they may just take advantage and spout out even more,having no technical person to correct them,so still no ignore from me.

Joe, I agree with you. This is a place for discussion and exploring ideas and positions.

What I find interesting is how protective people are about their "religious" concepts.
Touch one in the wrong way, and it is like a bomb going off.

Jesus spray. A provocative use of comparisons to explain an error of belief.

Ticket to heaven. A con-trick. Walking forgiven, pure and clean.

Because the reaction is so strong, throw them out of church, heretic, blasphemer,
possessed person, inspired by satan, whispered to by demons, it is little wonder
people to not investigate and question. In old days you were literally killed, which
Luther would have been by the Pope.

My bent is to actually get people thinking and looking, seeing in the light, and
knowing Jesus loving them as they are, and through this to transformation.

I have yet to find a man or woman of God who has not blessed me, so I have
no fear of meeting and sharing with such as these. And the enemies and false
teachers, God bless them, God will always use them within His purposes and the
fruit of what they sow will always come to bare.

So fear not, for Gods word is eternal and His truths once truly grasped never change.
And I have changed my understanding of these things many times, so I am not surprised
when people wonder at what I share, because I probably do as well.

How is it God blesses the evil and the good and allows evil to happen to the righteous which
He uses to bring glory to His son and the truths of His Kingdom.

Because in all things we are to rejoice, because nothing can stop His will working out.
Even the evil experiences people have, He turns them to counselling, to knowing pain
and suffering, yet love still bringing life, showing the slavery of sin and the liberation
of the Holy Spirit working in the believers heart. Amen, such glory to the King.

 

[joefizz]

I disagree, when someone is on ignore my life becomes more peaceful, ignore works for me.

each to their own.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Thank you. However, I am speaking of the ones who literally worship the cross as if it has magical powers.. It doesn't.. The man upon it was "magical", or more accurately, all powerful. I know it's a symbol of His sacrifice for us, but some people take it too far, and put more emphasis upon the cross, rather than the one who died upon it. So I'm NOT "jumping to conclusions". I know people who would actually probably die if you touched any of the wooden crosses that they have in their house.. lol

Blue- you have a good heart. The reason why people refer to the cross so much, is
as a verbal pointer to Christ dying on the cross is a measure of the infinite nature of
love He shows through this one action, determined from eternity to save us.

So these believers are worshipping Jesus in their words, they are honouring that which
He cares about most deeply, that love might be born into the hearts of men.

I think these expressions show how one believers way of expressing worship and love
can be miss-understood by another. It is why we need grace, patience and love to
spend time listening and getting to know people before we jump to the wrong conclusions.

 

[PeterJens]

My conclusions are not of this world my conclusions are that of the holy spirit clearly God wants you to understand that we are not as Jesus,your bits of scripture like Revelation 22:11 it speaks on labels of people,that each person has for themself,because imagine if John had told people all that he witnessed,many would have been against what he was saying,and further do wrong,instead the sayings of the bible were to speak,Jesus wasn't saying there actually were any men or women who were holy,more of simply speaking to leave them be regarding John,because if he spoke the things he saw people would believe on him and not upon God,so as that they wouldn't have faith upon God and in Jesus's promise.
The other scripture in matthew I already spoke on,children are pure in heart not Men or Women.

My friend, your interpretation is one view.
All I can testify to is the Lord makes us the holy temples of the Holy Spirit.
How can this be if we are not Holy, washed and clean.

Our perception of holiness and purity are not Gods. Can you see what God
calls clean, who are we to say is not clean?

Yet you already are prepared to do this. It is easier to do, because it removes
obligation or disappointment, and gives us this dull grey hopelessness that dwells
in our hearts, depression and all is hopeless, just a slow decline into the abyse
of the rapture and the beast coming to dominate enforcing the evil NWO.

My life is actually a discovery of Christs love setting people free, of new relationships,
of joy breaking out where hurt and rejection used to rule. Listen to the words of worship
we sing, they are full of forgiveness and healing that His blood gives us.

 

[VCO]

Magenta - You guys are so confused, you do not even know what you are saying.

I am suggesting dealing with Christ as if he is a cleansing spray is wrong.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is like an anti-sin spray? Because it appears to me
that is the crazy idea you are suggesting is ok.

Else you are condemning me over something I did not mean or say.

How is it you claim to have the higher ground and see fit to condemn me?
I see you own behaviour speaks for itself, and how lost in these concepts you truly are.

WHAT PART OF CLEANSED IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB do you not understand?


Hebrews 9:22 (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Revelation 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Acts 11:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But the voice answered me again from heaven, 'What God has cleansed you must not call common.'

2 Peter 1:8-11 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.




Hebrews 1:2-3 (YLT)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might--through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,


What part of Christ's Cleansing Blood do you object to? ? ?

 

[Magenta]

Magenta - You guys are so confused, you do not even know what you are saying.

I am suggesting dealing with Christ as if he is a cleansing spray is wrong.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is like an anti-sin spray? Because it appears to me
that is the crazy idea you are suggesting is ok.

Else you are condemning me over something I did not mean or say.

How is it you claim to have the higher ground and see fit to condemn me?
I see you own behaviour speaks for itself, and how lost in these concepts you truly are.

It is you who are confused, to think I suggest Jesus spray as some kind of solution, when they are your words used to condemn others with your continual lack of understanding, while you parade your superiority around. The crazy is all yours, and you can have it, along with the blindness evinced to your own folly and repetitious false accusations.

 

[PeterJens]

What part of Christ's Cleansing Blood do you object to? ? ?

We have a concept confusion here.

On idea is you cover up problems by just putting over a covering and imagining it has gone away.
The other is Jesus's blood dealing with confessed and repented of sin, which are removed
and cleansed.

I am suggesting there is a difference between the two.
One is fake the other real.

The fake for me is unconfessed and unrepentented of sin which is held and continued in
rebellion against the King.

Some peoples theology makes no distinction between the two and condemns the second
principle and claims it is unnecessary and implies disbelief in the ability of God to remove
the penalty of unconfessed and unrepented of sin, which is 100% unbiblical.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen

We are saved because we walk with Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.

It strikes me each day as you repeat my points they are like arrows you hate
but each day they dig deeper into the hypocracy of a sinful walk.

The cross brought love to our hearts, if love does not dwell there then the cross
means nothing to us. Do you know the DC?

When you see the cross, do your knees buckle and you head bow to the King of Kings,
or do you stride forward in arrogance assuming you are justified to enter heaven with
the pass key, no matter how you have behaved today and the state of your heart.

Too many deluded believers have preached and believed this, to find themselves washed
into the pit, because they believed in the shell and not the heart of Christ.

No one can walk with Jesus unless they are saved first which is a one time eternal event based upon faith....your working for anti-Jesus dogma cannot save a flea.......