Not By Works

[VCO]

How is one converted with no faith?

Let me explain first that GENINUNE FAITH or to genuinely BELIEVE, is NOT an intellectual acknowledgement that something is True.

The Demons in the demoniacs at GADARA, acknowledged who Jesus Christ was and fell on their knees before, calling HIM: "JESUS, SON of the MOST HIGH GOD." To many English speaking People, that constitutes BELIEVING, but it is NOT what the JEWS and the GREEKS mean by BELIEVING. They mean that you HAVE TO be willing to put your whole weight and TRUST from the heart, (the center of your whole being, your human spirit, not just your brain), on what you are claiming to BELIEVE. ANYTHING LESS, than that and a believing JEW would say you are LYING about really Believing that Jesus is MESSIAH. So the word BELIEVE translates poorly from Hebrew or Greek. Since we are talking about BELIEVE being outside and beyond the human intellect, where does that kind of FAITH come from?


Ephesians 2:4-10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love that he had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with Christ even thoughwe were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He also raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the coming ages he might display the immeasurable riches of his grace through his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift —
[SUP]9 [/SUP]not from works, so that no one can boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.


AND THAT FREE GIFT INCLUDES THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WILL NEVER LEAVE US, WHO PRODUCES IN US SAVING FAITH, BY BIRTHING OUR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, AND POURING GOD'S LOVE DIRECTLY INTO OUR HEARTS, AND everything else in our Christian Walk spawns out of that, finished Work of Salvation, which is by GRACE and MERCY.

GRACE is GOD giving us, what we can NEVER earn.
MERCY is GOD giving us, what we do NOT deserve.


Romans 5:5 (CSBBible)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


SEE IT, The FREE GIFT includes the HOLY SPIRIT, who empowers us to BELIEVE with the KIND OF FAITH that includes TOTAL TRUST AND LOVE FOR JESUS CHRIST. SO that kind of FAITH is NOT something we thought up with what lies between our ears.


John 14:15-17 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
{How is that possible, read the rest of the context, and you will find it is only possible by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.}
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.


Those who want to claim credit for part of gaining and keeping Salvation, are Robbing Christ of all the Glory for paying the total price for our SALVATION, and Robbing the Holy Spirit of the Glory HE deserves for putting SAVING FAITH AND GOD's LOVE in our Hearts.

 

[Hizikyah]

Deuteronomy 32:5, “A twisted and crooked generation has corrupted itself, Their blemish, they are not His children."

1 John 3:10, In this the children of Yah and the children of the devil are manifest: Everyone not doing righteousness is not of Yah, neither the one not loving his brother.”

3 John 1:11, “Beloved ones, do not imitate the evil, but the good. The one who is doing right is of Yah, but he who is doing evil has not seen Yah.”

1 John 2:3, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Psalm 119:151-152, “You are near, O יהוה, And all Your commands are truth. Of old I have known Your witnesses, That You have founded them forever.”

Psalm 37:1-5, “1 Do not fret because of evil-doers, Do not be envious of the workers of unrighteousness. 2 For they soon wither like grass, And fade like green plants. 3 Trust in יהוה, and do right; Dwell in the earth, and feed on faithfullness. 4 And delight yourself in יהוה, And let Him give you the desires of your heart. 5 Commit your way to יהוה, And trust in Him, and He does it.”

Isayah 1:17, “Learn to do what is good. Seek justice. Correct the oppressor. Defend the rights of the fatherless. Plead the widow’s cause.”


Deuteronomy 12:8, “You shall not do according to all that we are doing here today, everyone doing whatever is right in his own eyes."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 89:1-8, “I sing of the loving-commitment of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]forever; With my mouth I make known Your trustworthiness To all generations. 2, For I said, “Loving-commitment is built up forever; You establish Your trustworthiness in the heavens.” 3, You said, “I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My servant Dawiḏ: 4, I establish your seed forever, And shall build up your throne to all generations.’ ” Selah. 5, And the heavens praise Your wonders, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Your trustworthiness, too, In the assembly of the set-apart ones. 6, For who in the heavens is comparable to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? Who among the sons of the mighty is like YHWH?" 7, Yah is greatly feared In the company of the set-apart ones, And awesome above all those around Him. 8, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Strength of hosts, Who is mighty like You, O Yah? And Your trustworthiness is all around You."[/FONT]



​

 

[dcontroversal]

You say the person who believes is saved (as opposed to the person who works), but when I say it, 'believing' suddenly becomes a self righteous work of the damnable works gospel. And I know you mean 'believing' as in present tense right now believing because I think you have said our believing comes from God and, therefore, we can never stop believing. Or you think even if we stop believing we are still saved, but that's H-Grace doctrine and I think you said you do not subscribe to H-Grace doctrine.

Listen pal....your whole premise is false.....it is the root of your false belief that you can LOSE IT OR FORFEIT IT AND MUST KEEP YOURSELF SAVED....if you are too dense to understand that, then by all means pass right over every post I make and quit misrepresneting what we say and quit spreading your deception.....at the end of the day you elevate your power and ability to KEEP YOURSELF SAVED over Jesus and his ability to keep you saved and to keep HIS PROMISES!

 

[mailmandan]

Let me explain first that GENINUNE FAITH or to genuinely BELIEVE, is NOT an intellectual acknowledgement that something is True.

The Demons in the demoniacs at GADARA, acknowledged who Jesus Christ was and fell on their knees before, calling HIM: "JESUS, SON of the MOST HIGH GOD." To many English speaking People, that constitutes BELIEVING, but it is NOT what the JEWS and the GREEKS mean by BELIEVING. They mean that you HAVE TO be willing to put your whole weight and TRUST from the heart, (the center of your whole being, your human spirit, not just your brain), on what you are claiming to BELIEVE.

Amen! In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Those who want to claim credit for part of gaining and keeping Salvation, are Robbing Christ of all the Glory for paying the total price for our SALVATION, and Robbing the Holy Spirit of the Glory HE deserves for putting SAVING FAITH AND GOD's LOVE in our Hearts.

Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save BELIEVERS (Romans 3:24-26). No supplements needed.

 

[dcontroversal]

Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....

A true believer CANNOT lose salvation.....end of story...the rest of your foolisheness is covered under numerous examples found in scripture!

 

[dcontroversal]

It's funny how several here continue to claim they! do! not! maintain! their! salvation!, yet, if THEY! do! not! keep! believing!, they lose their salvation.

Uh huh.

Amen....while nit understanding that the root of their false ideology is corrupt to begin with.....

 

[dcontroversal]

You can define the difference between faith and works, Justification and sanctification but they can't be separated in our walk with Jesus.

Sure they can....Paul concluded a man was justified before God by faith withoit works <<- that is a seperation!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes. Notice also in his false gospel he is making the man the one responsible for this transformation, and if he doesn't do this, he is off to hell, though once saved. This is seen in his straw man "they do not have to change into different people" which is filled with implications the person must change. By the way, this is God's doing, not ours, 2 Corinthians 5:17; Romans 12:1ff &c.

First it was;

1) If you stop believing, off to hell you go.

2) Then it became if you stop believing "and do something stupid," it is off to hell you go.

3) Now it is if the person doesn't transform themselves, it is off to hell they go.

The list is growing, and it's focus is never on the accomplishment of Christ, it is incessantly on man.

Exactly why it is obvious that he pushes a dogma not found in scripture.....

 

[Hizikyah]

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

 

[dcontroversal]

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

You can push your law abiding dogma all you want.....none of the verses you HANG your belief on teach that works or adherance to the law saves a flea....the very law was designed to prove man's guilt and as a schoolmaster POINTS TO THE ONLY CURE....FAITH INTO THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST FOR ETERNAL SALVATION!

 

[Hizikyah]

You can push your law abiding dogma all you want.....none of the verses you HANG your belief on teach that works or adherance to the law saves a flea....the very law was designed to prove man's guilt and as a schoolmaster POINTS TO THE ONLY CURE....FAITH INTO THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST FOR ETERNAL SALVATION!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.

Rom 331, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.” [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. and I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]


John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]



John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 - poimén)."

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek word pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, the life in faith is the source of the works.

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commands and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on their works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Only genuine believers follow His words/do the things He says/watch over the Word of God.

Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yes, REWARD every man according to his works. Also see 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Man is saved through FAITH, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Do you believe that man is justified by works of the law or by faith in Jesus Christ?

 

[Hizikyah]

The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek word pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, the life in faith is the source of the works.

So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commands and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on their works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

Only genuine believers follow His words/do the things He says/watch over the Word of God.

Yes, REWARD every man according to his works. Also see 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Man is saved through FAITH, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Do you believe that man is justified by works of the law or by faith in Jesus Christ?

Great post! halleluYah!!!

I believe we are called to "shamah" hear and obey, I believe the meaning of faith to Yahshua was to hear and obey not justto believe.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַע - shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Faith without obedience is no faith at all according to the first and original definition and meaning of the Hebrew word faith…



Hebrews11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him."

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by faith (H#530 faith/faithfulness)."

faith is word #H530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness

faith H#530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.

Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament) #530. אֱמוּנָה
emunah (53c); from 539; firmness, steadfastness, fidelity

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."



James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."



James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"



James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Faith + no works = dead

Works + no faith = dead



Faith + Works


Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."


Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

 

[dcontroversal]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.

Rom 331, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.” [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. and I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]


John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]



John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 - poimén)."

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Nice twist of the word in Revelation which is applicable unto the lost and not the saved......good luck with your law of working for salvation...

 

[TruthTalk]

Originally Posted by preacher4truth

First it was;

1) If you stop believing, off to hell you go.

2) Then it became if you stop believing "and do something stupid," it is off to hell you go.

3) Now it is if the person doesn't transform themselves, it is off to hell they go.

The list is growing, and it's focus is never on the accomplishment of Christ, it is incessantly on man.

Exactly why it is obvious that he pushes a dogma not found in scripture.....

Neither is once saved always saved, (osas) found in scripture. It is a lie that is repeated over and over, that is used to promote a works based salvation. A legalistic faith that say's okay now you are saved, but you also need to add your wonderful works to keep you saved, or you will lose your salvation.

I asked my Christian friend who is a Jew, why do Jewish Christian's parade their old testament law and traditions in front of their Christianity. And he said you just answered your own question. They are putting the old before the new which is wrong.

"But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises." Hebrews8:6

Jesus is the much more excellent covenant. If you see legalism in your church or fellowship that you attend, run for the door. Their legalistic works based religion will rob you of your freedom and "Joy in The Lord."

"But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble." James4:6

And John the Baptist said, "I must decrease and He must increase." John3:30

God's grace plus nothing, True Gospel

 

[VCO]

Nice twist of the word in Revelation which is applicable unto the lost and not the saved......good luck with your law of working for salvation...

YEAH, they are JUDGED GUILTY and Sent to the LAKE OF FIRE for Eternity.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.


James 2:10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.


AND THAT IS WHAT THOSE BOOKS OF WORKS WILL REVEAL.


Matthew 7:13-14 (CSBBible)
[SUP]13[/SUP] "Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.


TRUSTING IN YOURSELF TO KEEP YOUR SALVATION IS DEFINITELY GOING THROUGH THE WIDE GATE.

FEW FIND THAT TOTAL TRUST IN JESUS, WHICH IS ENTERING THE NARROW GATE.


John 6:39 (HCSB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] This is the will of Him who sent Me: that I should lose none of those He has given Me but should raise them up on the last day.

 

[Zi]

Can't anyone talk plainly?
I didn't ask for a sermon. I asked what the man meant by what he said.

Thanks anyway..

Let me explain first that GENINUNE FAITH or to genuinely BELIEVE, is NOT an intellectual acknowledgement that something is True.

The Demons in the demoniacs at GADARA, acknowledged who Jesus Christ was and fell on their knees before, calling HIM: "JESUS, SON of the MOST HIGH GOD." To many English speaking People, that constitutes BELIEVING, but it is NOT what the JEWS and the GREEKS mean by BELIEVING. They mean that you HAVE TO be willing to put your whole weight and TRUST from the heart, (the center of your whole being, your human spirit, not just your brain), on what you are claiming to BELIEVE. ANYTHING LESS, than that and a believing JEW would say you are LYING about really Believing that Jesus is MESSIAH. So the word BELIEVE translates poorly from Hebrew or Greek. Since we are talking about BELIEVE being outside and beyond the human intellect, where does that kind of FAITH come from?


Ephesians 2:4-10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love that he had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with Christ even thoughwe were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He also raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the coming ages he might display the immeasurable riches of his grace through his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift —
[SUP]9 [/SUP]not from works, so that no one can boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.


AND THAT FREE GIFT INCLUDES THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WILL NEVER LEAVE US, WHO PRODUCES IN US SAVING FAITH, BY BIRTHING OUR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, AND POURING GOD'S LOVE DIRECTLY INTO OUR HEARTS, AND everything else in our Christian Walk spawns out of that, finished Work of Salvation, which is by GRACE and MERCY.

GRACE is GOD giving us, what we can NEVER earn.
MERCY is GOD giving us, what we do NOT deserve.


Romans 5:5 (CSBBible)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


SEE IT, The FREE GIFT includes the HOLY SPIRIT, who empowers us to BELIEVE with the KIND OF FAITH that includes TOTAL TRUST AND LOVE FOR JESUS CHRIST. SO that kind of FAITH is NOT something we thought up with what lies between our ears.


John 14:15-17 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
{How is that possible, read the rest of the context, and you will find it is only possible by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.}
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.


Those who want to claim credit for part of gaining and keeping Salvation, are Robbing Christ of all the Glory for paying the total price for our SALVATION, and Robbing the Holy Spirit of the Glory HE deserves for putting SAVING FAITH AND GOD's LOVE in our Hearts.

 

[Zi]

Obviously not me. Why can't you just answer without being snarky

I don't know, you tell me. Who caused you to believe, you, or God? Who caused you to be saved, you, or God?

 

[Zi]

Why? Because you can only see judgement? Not that it's possible to love yourself without being self-centered?

By the way, Zi, your "Love yourself so fiercely that no one dare love you half-heartedly" in your avatar reminds me perfectly of those mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:2.

it speaks to low self-esteem in my case. Human opinion really doesn't matter to me

 

[preacher4truth]

Why? Because you can only see judgement? Not that it's possible to love yourself without being self-centered?

The quote is arrogant, self centered, and descriptive of the age and culture. IOW 2 Timothy 3:2 in action.

It speaks to low self-esteem in my case.

So you want high self esteem. That's 2 Timothy 3:2. I don't buy the lie of low self esteem. Note Matthew 5:3. You seem to have a view of self which differs from biblical Christianity.

Human opinion really doesn't matter to me

Obviously it does hence your quote and all it implies.