Not By Works

[PHart]

YEP, you are right, THAT IS PURE HERESY. If you can BELIEVE, that was part of the FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.

[/INDENT][/COLOR]

The reason a person continuing to believe is not them trying to earn their own salvation is because God graciously provides as a free gift the faith needed for any person to trust in Jesus. Paul made it plainly clear that 'believing' is NOT on the side of works in his famous 'works vs. faith for justification' treatise. Believing resides all by itself on the opposite side of works as to that which does NOT constitute earning one's justification/salvation.

It's interesting how bad teaching in the church has made it so people can't see his plain words in Romans 4:5. Instead we have this different gospel that over and over has to step in and tell you that the scriptures 'don't really mean what they say', and that you need special OSAS esoteric understanding to make the plain words of scripture mean something else. That's what got me off the fence about OSAS. What a joke to tell people the Bible doesn't really mean what it says. I was ashamed that I had been doing that.

That's why I call the doctrines of OSAS the 'not really' doctrines of OSAS.

 

[PeterJens]

Did you check it out?

Also, look into gnosticism as well.

p4t - the dualism of the gnostics is best represented by those who talk about an eternal
spirit born from on High dwelling in a flesh body doomed to be destroyed.

The H-grace group used this analogy to a similar degree as the gnostics, with similar
consequences.

Saying you gain insight into the gospel through the Holy Spirit is not gnostic.
Jesus talked of the teachers of the law being blind, deaf and dumb, claiming to see
could not. It strikes me you are coming at things from a different theological background,
but equally are trying to change the goal posts, though not succeeding very well.

 

[Deacon_D]

If I were a preacher and didn’t preach Acts 2:38 or let it be the only baptism I would be worried.

 

[Deacon_D]

My failing to succeed is proof that the priests of old are still as they were blind,deaf, and dumb to the Word.

 

[Deacon_D]

So, do you preach it exactly as Peter did inActs 2:38?

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus is more than capable and willing to keep his promises to those who believe. He makes no promises to those who stop believing. Are you afraid of this truth? Are you afraid you will stop believing and be lost? Don't be. Jesus is there to help you keep believing if you want to keep believing but you are doubting, perhaps because of a difficult trial or temptation or besetting sin. He's there to help you keep believing so that you can be saved on the Day of his appearing.

What you don't understand is the simple fact that follows....what you push and peddle like a street organ player with a dancing monkey is not truth.....your false view negates ALL THE PROMISES and POWER OF CHIRST and elevates your working for, self saved rigmarole above Jesus.....one simple principle proves your error...

Jesus begins our faith
Jesus finishes our faith
Jesus completes our faith

Your view makes the above a lie, negates the promise and power of Jesus to finish and complete....No...your gospel has no truth to it and you peddle a lie!

 

[dcontroversal]

with all that " knowledge ", one would think that they would understand that the Bible, the written Word, lays things out clearly.

they should not cloud things by attempting to change them.

like this- the Biblical definitions of sin, missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good, and not doing so.

this levels the playing field, and puts us all on the same level. but, maybe they want to be " above ", and twist Scripture in the attempt to do so. ( and fail ).

Again...one must be enlightened to the truth of biblical salvation and then actually be saved to rightly divide.....the point is obvious...his false, I must keep myself saved dogma speaks for itself......!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yep. All this dumbing down of the Bible has facilitated the notion on how "simple" it is. This is generally advocated by "simpletons" themselves.

It amazes me that a preacher can preach an entire chapter in say 20 minutes. They get little to nothing out of it, serve it up to the people, and then tell the people "See how simple that is?!" That is a commentary on them, not the Word.

And this note as well concerning PHart and his speaking of "walking in grace." His gospel isn't even about grace, it's a gospel of works that rarely focuses on or even glorifies Christ - its main focus and talking point is man and what he can do, and how he can undo the work of Almighty God.

That is a false gospel to its very core.

How can you discern if the Holy Spirit is behind your Gospel message? The message will glorify Christ, not man; John 16:14.

Amen to that.....I remember 1 Psalm we studied....197 verses just to cover verse 1........

 

[dcontroversal]

If anyone has not seen the morning news there are at least 50 dead and 400 wounded in a sniper attack in Las Vegas at an Outdoor Country and Western Concert. Pray for the victims wounded and the families of all casualties.

MORE SIGNS OF THE TIMES:


2 Timothy 3:1-5 (GWT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You must understand this: In the last days there will be violent periods of time. {That word "violent" can also be translated VICIOUS.}
[SUP]2 [/SUP] People will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and lack normal affection for their families. They will refuse to make peace with anyone. They will be slanderous, lack self-control, be brutal, and have no love for what is good.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will be traitors. They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them. Stay away from such people.

2 Timothy 3:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Evil people and impostors will become worse, deceiving and being deceived.

What has changed that may be a contributing factor to the ever increasing violent murder rate?

I think it started downhill when public executions were taken out the public eye.

Exodus 21:14 (NCV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But if someone plans and murders another person on purpose, put him to death, even if he has run to my altar for safety.

And one of the characteristics of the HINDERMOST of the nations before she falls is leader against leader and violence in the land.....

 

[dcontroversal]

The reason a person continuing to believe is not them trying to earn their own salvation is because God graciously provides as a free gift the faith needed for any person to trust in Jesus. Paul made it plainly clear that 'believing' is NOT on the side of works in his famous 'works vs. faith for justification' treatise. Believing resides all by itself on the opposite side of works as to that which does NOT constitute earning one's justification/salvation.

It's interesting how bad teaching in the church has made it so people can't see his plain words in Romans 4:5. Instead we have this different gospel that over and over has to step in and tell you that the scriptures 'don't really mean what they say', and that you need special OSAS esoteric understanding to make the plain words of scripture mean something else. That's what got me off the fence about OSAS. What a joke to tell people the Bible doesn't really mean what it says. I was ashamed that I had been doing that.

That's why I call the doctrines of OSAS the 'not really' doctrines of OSAS.

The reason a person is eternally secure is because the God of heaven BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES THE GOOD WORK OF FAITH HE BEGAN......

but in your case....you must help because your god does not keep his word nor have the power and ability to keep his promise to begin, finish and complete the work in you..

amazing how you can devalue and degrade the wonderful work of Jesus on one's behalf.......

 

[Deacon_D]

Do you the reject Peter in Acts 2:38?

 

[TruthTalk]

It's interesting how bad teaching in the church has made it so people can't see his plain words in Romans 4:5. Instead we have this different gospel that over and over has to step in and tell you that the scriptures 'don't really mean what they say', and that you need special OSAS esoteric understanding to make the plain words of scripture mean something else. That's what got me off the fence about OSAS. What a joke to tell people the Bible doesn't really mean what it says. I was ashamed that I had been doing that.

That's why I call the doctrines of OSAS the 'not really' doctrines of OSAS.

Notice to forum: "There is no "Doctrine of OSAS." OSAS is a straw man argument that people like Phart like to use to confuse the issue which is; "you can "lose" your salvation." He lights the Strawman on fire and throws him out into the arena of discussion hoping that his opposition will run out and try to put the fire of his lame Strawman argument out.

Phart is trying to convince you that your "eternal security" is based on what you do, (works) and not what God will do. This is a legalistic dogma that will cause you grief and despair in your Christian life.

There is no "OSAS Doctrine", in the bible, it is only in the imagination of Phart's mind

There is a doctrine of the eternal security of the believer.

 

[MattforJesus]

I have made a mistake,and I admit it.

It is true works have nothing to do with our salvation.

When I go to work,or work in the yard,mowing,and raking leaves,or work on crafting a table,or work on a crossword puzzle,or work on my vehicle,those works have nothing to do with my salvation.

So it is true works have nothing to do with our salvation.

It is nice to finally see the light.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

No love,no faith,because faith works by love.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity,love in action,is greater than faith.No love,no faith.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Without charity we are nothing.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

But charity does not think an evil thought,and hates sin,and does not want sin,and abstains from sin by the Spirit,and only goes by their needs,not their wants,and helps the poor and needy with their needs.

Do not comply.No Love,and a little leaven leavens the whole lump,for it is not part time,but all the time,and it is not love only to a select few,but love towards all people,even our enemies.

No love,no faith.

 

[TruthTalk]

I have made a mistake,and I admit it.

It is true works have nothing to do with our salvation. (Sarcasm)

When I go to work,or work in the yard,mowing,and raking leaves,or work on crafting a table,or work on a crossword puzzle,or work on my vehicle,those works have nothing to do with my salvation.

So it is true works have nothing to do with our salvation.

It is nice to finally see the light.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

No love,no faith,because faith works by love.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity,love in action,is greater than faith.No love,no faith.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Without charity we are nothing.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

But charity does not think an evil thought,and hates sin,and does not want sin,and abstains from sin by the Spirit,and only goes by their needs,not their wants,and helps the poor and needy with their needs.

Do not comply.No Love,and a little leaven leavens the whole lump,for it is not part time,but all the time,and it is not love only to a select few,but love towards all people,even our enemies.

No love,no faith.

Your view of the bible is myopic and you cannot see the forest through the tree's. You put a wall of verse's in front of our face and begin your criticism with sarcasm.
Sorry I'm not buying what you are selling.

Wrong interpretation, wrong application.

 

[TruthTalk]

Do you the reject Peter in Acts 2:38?

Acts:2:38
"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized (our side), in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (God's side).

Repent and be baptized, "our side", forgiveness of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, "God's side." I'm not sure who your statement is directed to because there are no, "quotations on your post" but I hope this helps.

God bless

 

[Deacon_D]

Acts:2:38
"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized (our side), in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (God's side).

Repent and be baptized, "our side", forgiveness of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, "God's side." I'm not sure who your statement is directed to because there are no, "quotations on your post" but I hope this helps.

God bless

I don’t see our side of God’s side in that verse anywhere.

 

[oldethennew]

have ya'll ever given a thought to how a lot of the readers feel when reading
your redundant nonsense???

most continue to read, hoping for insight and enlightenment, instead of competitive
jargon for who can sound the most informed!?!?

many don't know, but lots of people can 'read between the lines', and not only that,
but have access to Godly Discernment! duhoh,..

 

[Deacon_D]

have ya'll ever given a thought to how a lot of the readers feel when reading
your redundant nonsense???

most continue to read, hoping for insight and enlightenment, instead of competitive
jargon for who can sound the most informed!?!?

many don't know, but lots of people can 'read between the lines', and not only that,
but have access to Godly Discernment! duhoh,..

Tut, tut now we must be civil or we’ll show the world what kind of Christian we are.

 

[TruthTalk]

I don’t see our side of God’s side in that verse anywhere.

Acts:2:38
"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized (our part), in the name of Jesus Christ for (God's part).

Okay here it is again,

(Our part, what the believer does) - "Repent, and each of you be baptized"
(God's part), "the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

God bless

 

[Deacon_D]

Acts:2:38
"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized (our part), in the name of Jesus Christ for (God's part).

Okay here it is again,

(Our part, what the believer does) - "Repent, and each of you be baptized"
(God's part), "the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

God bless

Is that what Peter mean tow as he telling us what we needed to do and our blessings for doing it?