For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

[John146]

I don't think anything is random, if so, something could catch God offguard.

Why use the phrase, "catch God off guard"? If events are happening as they will and God sees all...nothing catches God off guard. Does God work in and through these events? Absolutely! Has God ordained every thing to happen as they will? That's not the God of the Bible.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why use the phrase, "catch God off guard"? If events are happening as they will and God sees all...nothing catches God off guard. Does God work in and through these events? Absolutely! Has God ordained every thing to happen as they will? That's not the God of the Bible.

There's nothing that happens He doesn't have complete control over. Even the wicked events, He didn't stop them from happening, even though He could have.

He uses primary and secondary causes to fulfill His will.

 

[trofimus]

Look at the Assyrian king. God stirred him and his ppl up and they throttled Israel. He then destroyed them as he went a wee bit too far. He freely attacked Israel, as his heart was evil. God used his wicked heart to be a judgment against Israel and their rebellion against Him.

But God always knew that the king will do exactly this or that, so it was always certain. Where do you see that free move from your example?

 

[SovereignGrace]

But God always knew that the king will do exactly this or that, so it was always certain. Where do you see that free move from your example?

No one coerced him to do his wickedness. God didn't go against that king's will, as it was evil to begin with. He stirred him up, but never changed his will to attack Israel.

 

[SovereignGrace]

But God always knew that the king will do exactly this or that, so it was always certain. Where do you see that free move from your example?

Let me try to give you an example. I am sure ppl can shoot holes in it, but I will try to better explain my thought(s) here.

You have someone that truly hates you. I go to them and get him stirred up to attack you. I didn't make him hate you, as that hatred was already there. All I did was get him lathered up to go and attack you. God's ppl were into full blown idolotry, so He stirred up the Assyrian King's heart to attack them. He sent them as an judgment against them.

 

[trofimus]

Let me try to give you an example. I am sure ppl can shoot holes in it, but I will try to better explain my thought(s) here.

You have someone that truly hates you. I go to them and get him stirred up to attack you. I didn't make him hate you, as that hatred was already there. All I did was get him lathered up to go and attack you. God's ppl were into full blown idolotry, so He stirred up the Assyrian King's heart to attack them. He sent them as an judgment against them.

I am trying to get what you mean by that "free move inside a cell", regarding the king. Till now, it seems to me that its only "not being forced to do what is certain to be done".

Or could the king be better and behave better?

 

[Jackson123]

In your belief system, salvation is reduced to a possibility, not an actuality. That's sad, so sad to see.

Here's what I mean. Two ppl who are both lost, both spiritually dead, hear the gospel, one is saved and the other isn't. In your belief system, the one who was saved was because they did something, and the other one didn't. Forget the fact that both are in the same spiritual state. Both are dead as in a spiritual corpse, but in your view, both were able to do something, and the one who chooses to do that something is the one saved. The reason why the one remained lost is because they didn't do something.

So, in your belief system, the cross put all ppl on equal footing, meaning if they do something, they will be saved. So, in your belief system, it was the cross + what they did that garnered their salvation for them. That's a false gospel, another gospel.

The cross + anything is not the gospel, but another gospel.

I believe God love both, and God give both the ability to chose because God love both, than up to them to believe or not.

Your believe system is God love one of them and hate the other. God love is all over in the bible

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am trying to get what you mean by that "free move inside a cell", regarding the king. Till now, it seems to me that its only "not being forced to do what is certain to be done".

The lost are lost and can not choose the Christ, because they are bound in sin. All that the lost do is sin. Even if they do good deeds, being sinners, its reckoned as sin. Even the plowing of the wicked is sin. When they go to the bars, chase the girls/guys, sleep around, curse, &c., they freely do it. No one coerces them to do these sins, seeing their hearts are wicked. If they have the choice of going to church or somewhere else, they'll chose somewhere else.

A while back I had two new tires put on my work car. The boy who changed them talked about loving to fight roosters. I used to love to do that years ago, so I spoke to him about that, trying to get him to feel comfortable to be around me. The lost seem to be leery of christians. He even told me how wrong it was to approve of same-sex marriage. Right before I left, I paid him and invited him to visit my church. He thanked me or said something like that as he bolted out of that garage. He freely declined my invitation. Why? His will is bound by sin and can not be freed by himself. At the same time, he freely rejected an offer to come to church and hear the word of God. God didn't have to force him to say no, he freely said it himself.

Or could the king be better and behave better?

Well, ppl can reform themselves to a certain extent, but can't improve their spiritual state.

 

[Jackson123]

Brother, lost ppl don't possess a free will. Apostle Paul easily refutes free will ideology.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance.You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.[Romans 6:15-18]

The lost are slaves to sin. Slaves can't free themselves but must be freed by someone else. In steps the Christ. In came the Christ to save His ppl from their sins. Not everyone whoever lived is considered God's ppl.

In the above passage, it says when they obeyed from the heart, that's the key. The heart is completely wicked, beyond a cure, and no one can know it. So, its not this heart that obeys Him, but the new heart He gives[Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26]that obeys Him. Remember, it is those who are born of Him, who love Him.[1 John 4:7] So, the new birth happens first, and Jesus compares it being like the wind when He conversed with Nicodemus in John 3. No one can stop the wind from blowing, no one can stop the Spirit from giving life to whosoever(there's that pesky little word again) He will.

Slave have a free Will, whether he drink or go to toilet etc. The bos not totaly dictate all they action. Slave free to Widhi g to be free, If not because of the cross, It is impossible for Slave to be free, cross give the Slave the opportunity to be free. Use your free Will to accept the invitation

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe God love both, and God give both the ability to chose because God love both, than up to them to believe or not.

Your believe system is God love one of them and hate the other. God love is all over in the bible

God so loves the world...His wrath abides upon the disobedient ones. You can't have wrath w/o having hate. Reconcile these two verses, John 3:16 & John 3:36.

 

[notuptome]

God so loves the world...His wrath abides upon the disobedient ones. You can't have wrath w/o having hate. Reconcile these two verses, John 3:16 & John 3:36.

Gods wrath is appointed upon sin not the soul. If the soul refuses to forsake sin and cleave to God then the soul will be cast into eternal condemnation because Gods wrath abides on sin.

Allah not Jehovah hates men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SovereignGrace]

Slave have a free Will, whether he drink or go to toilet etc. The bos not totaly dictate all they action. Slave free to Widhi g to be free, If not because of the cross, It is impossible for Slave to be free, cross give the Slave the opportunity to be free. Use your free Will to accept the invitation

Going to the toilet isn't free will, but a necessity. Drinking water isn't free will, but a necessity. Just because you make choices to wear a black belt and brown shoes(a fashion faux pas) doesn't mean you have free will.

Slaves do NOT have a free will. No one can come to Me, unless, My Father draws Him. That's not free will at all.

 

[Jackson123]

If you believe that God knew everything what will happen before the creation of the Universe, what do you mean by free will?

You are free to chose what kind of food you Eat to day don't you

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are free to chose what kind of food you Eat to day don't you

But that doesn't mean you have free will.

 

[Jackson123]

Going to the toilet isn't free will, but a necessity. Drinking water isn't free will, but a necessity. Just because you make choices to wear a black belt and brown shoes(a fashion faux pas) doesn't mean you have free will.

Slaves do NOT have a free will. No one can come to Me, unless, My Father draws Him. That's not free will at all.

The Father draw or saved because one believe in Jesus

 

[trofimus]

The lost are lost and can not choose the Christ, because they are bound in sin. All that the lost do is sin. Even if they do good deeds, being sinners, its reckoned as sin. Even the plowing of the wicked is sin. When they go to the bars, chase the girls/guys, sleep around, curse, &c., they freely do it. No one coerces them to do these sins, seeing their hearts are wicked. If they have the choice of going to church or somewhere else, they'll chose somewhere else.

A while back I had two new tires put on my work car. The boy who changed them talked about loving to fight roosters. I used to love to do that years ago, so I spoke to him about that, trying to get him to feel comfortable to be around me. The lost seem to be leery of christians. He even told me how wrong it was to approve of same-sex marriage. Right before I left, I paid him and invited him to visit my church. He thanked me or said something like that as he bolted out of that garage. He freely declined my invitation. Why? His will is bound by sin and can not be freed by himself. At the same time, he freely rejected an offer to come to church and hear the word of God. God didn't have to force him to say no, he freely said it himself.



Well, ppl can reform themselves to a certain extent, but can't improve their spiritual state.

I am talking more about details, Not just sin, salvation etc.

I will ask more clearly - is it certain/predestined that you will get the thought you now got or that your hair will move in the air as it did?

If everything is certain, from subatomic particles to every our small inner movement, what is that free moving inside the cell, specifically?

 

[SovereignGrace]

The Father draw or saved because one believe in Jesus

Brother, you are continually placing the effect before the cause. If one believes, they're saved and have no need of being saved, seeing they are ALREADY saved.

In your example Lazarus came forth and because he came forth, the Christ gave him a new physical life.

#Sheesh

 

[notuptome]

Pr 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

David thought evangelism was important.

Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Angels went forth and spread the great evangel to shepherds abiding in their fields that Christ was come.

Seems like we ought to have apart in Gods great plan.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

In your belief system, salvation is reduced to a possibility, not an actuality. That's sad, so sad to see.

Here's what I mean. Two ppl who are both lost, both spiritually dead, hear the gospel, one is saved and the other isn't. In your belief system, the one who was saved was because they did something, and the other one didn't. Forget the fact that both are in the same spiritual state. Both are dead as in a spiritual corpse, but in your view, both were able to do something, and the one who chooses to do that something is the one saved. The reason why the one remained lost is because they didn't do something.

So, in your belief system, the cross put all ppl on equal footing, meaning if they do something, they will be saved. So, in your belief system, it was the cross + what they did that garnered their salvation for them. That's a false gospel, another gospel.

The cross + anything is not the gospel, but another gospel.

john 3:16 basically say cross + believing Jesus die so whosoever beieve Will save

save + believe

 

[Jackson123]

God so loves the world...His wrath abides upon the disobedient ones. You can't have wrath w/o having hate. Reconcile these two verses, John 3:16 & John 3:36.

exactly wrapt or punishment do not mean hate, in the contrary punishment mean love.

God love the world but ppl have a free Will, to chose to Eat the fruit of knowledge or not, to kill or to love, Bespcause of love God do not want the weak killer by the strong, to prevent this happen, God make punishment system.

all law product by God base oN Love ( matt 22:36-40)