For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

[SovereignGrace]

Bible says that one eating from the tree of life would make them live forever. So I suppose they have not ate from the tree ever.

When I use logic, that tree would transform them to be spiritual beings like Jesus after ressurection. Nothing biological can be immortal.

Animals did not have any such tree thats why they were always mortal.

It appears that maybe the Tree of Life, if they had eaten of its fruit, would have either gotten eternal life from it, or it was their continual eating of it that would have made them to live as long as they ate of it. Either way, when Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden and denied access to that Tree, we were also denied access to those as well.

I am not saying they had to have the Tree to sustain their lives, nor if they would have eaten from it, they would have lived forever. I said maybe. But we don't go by what ifs and maube's, but what the bible avers. Adam severed ties for all of us, and the Christ brought us back together with God.

 

[He_reigns]

It appears that maybe the Tree of Life, if they had eaten of its fruit, would have either gotten eternal life from it, or it was their continual eating of it that would have made them to live as long as they ate of it. Either way, when Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden and denied access to that Tree, we were also denied access to those as well.

I am not saying they had to have the Tree to sustain their lives, nor if they would have eaten from it, they would have lived forever. I said maybe. But we don't go by what ifs and maube's, but what the bible avers. Adam severed ties for all of us, and the Christ brought us back together with God.

Gen 3:22

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

 

[He_reigns]

No, seriously. Try again. Go back and read it. I really am messing with you when I call you an Arminian, just as you're messing with me by blaming me on what Calvin did. See why I'm doing that, and maybe we can get over the stupid stuff and have a real conversation.

I'm annoyed, frustrated, and angry over how often people go with point-to-Calvin, when they couldn't give a damn about Calvin himself. Truthfully, the vast majority of "Calvinists" haven't read more then five sentences from Calvin. The guy was miles above our head, more educated, and quite a bit impetuous. (Last one might be telling, because I tend to distrust people too much like me. lol)

We're really not Calvinists anymore than you are Arminian. So really, go back and reread that like that's what I meant, and you'll see... that's what I meant!

I will continue to play this game until people get over pretending it's about Calvin though.

Why are you using profanity in a post?

 

[SovereignGrace]

exactly,which is why I called Sovereign's post of,"the wages of sin is death" immature,because in our case unlike adam and eve we now can die both physically and spiritually,but the physical death occurs no matter a baby,sinning or not,spiritually a baby does not die because though it has sin(just learned in church babies do have sin just are not held accountable),babies and those who are unaccountable are attested for by God so the baby or others who cannot be held accountable (do not understand sin so cannot be held accountable)receive heaven due to God's attesting for them.(throwing out someone's claim that supposedly "God doesn't have any control over anyone's salvation,guess again God "Does"have control over one's salvation.

That post of mine was not immature, you just don't agree with it.

And for you to conflate what you said to me as being the Holy Spirit? Yah! Riiiiiiight!!

 

[oldethennew]

SG,
how would you know? and, besides that, maybe to some more than just one person,
your post did 'sound immature'!?!?!? why take 'offence,? a whole lot of us here, posting,
and reading, know, learned about all kinds of 'offences', along and along in our journey towards
our Father's calling us into His Kingdom...it's just another part of our journey to The Holy Land,
that we who are called, are thankful for, every day of our lives, 'world be damed'!

 

[preacher4truth]

SG,how would you know? and, besides that, maybe to some more than just one person, your post did 'sound immature'!?!?!?

Totally unnecessary post.

 

[joefizz]

That post of mine was not immature, you just don't agree with it.

And for you to conflate what you said to me as being the Holy Spirit? Yah! Riiiiiiight!!

I wouldn't expect you to understand about the holy spirit,yeah I still have things to learn which was why I said half was me and half was the holy spirit,but naturally if I don't know something from the bible the holy spirit brings to mind scriptures that I do know despite me not knowing precisely what those scriptures may mean,but is it any surprise that I "have faith" in God's word and not so often do I trust the words of people,once again no surprise,and yeah I'm no brainiac like some who go through multiple bibles or think on theological stuff(I don't bother with it typically)but I make room for the holy spirit,instead of shutting my heart closed with being sure of myself all the time or as I call it "being a wise guy" making remarks or using scripture the wrong way such as do did with the "wages of sin is death" scripture,using it likely to say that because of sin babies die which is preposterous so I called immature,you seem at times not to know when to hold your tongue,for you seek often to say something crass or snide even concerning scripture,I can tell you from experience that path is bad because you hurt others with such behavior,one must learn when joking ends and discussing scripture begins,I appreciate a laugh just as much as anyone but as according to Ecclesiastes Chp.3 there is "a time for everything".
For your vulgar comment provoked me to go to bat for children because you quoted that one scripture as a joke or you simply didn't know what it meant,because the "wages of sin is death" doesn't refer to that just because anyone has sin that they have the possibility of dieing,it is referring to persisting to "continue in sin" that one dies not necessarily physically but spiritually,for think on it,wages are payments for an action just like in a work place,so to receive such earnings one must "do something" to receive a wage,since a baby can't do something knowingly for such wages to be applied to them,they don't spiritually due to God's attesting for them but still can die in some physical way,for tell me whom is immortal but God and his angels,his son and holy spirit?
considering that Satan sinned against God multiple times and still persists to do so,how does he not die physically if your use of that one piece of scripture is to be true,for Satan would have passed away by now if sin means that one dies physically just from having sin,Satan not only has sin as well as sins ever presently yet doesn't die physically,how could this be possible?
think on it and consider how absurd,that one can apply the wages of sin to babies.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I wouldn't expect you to understand about the holy spirit,yeah I still have things to learn which was why I said half was me and half was the holy spirit,but naturally if I don't know something from the bible the holy spirit brings to mind scriptures that I do know despite me not knowing precisely what those scriptures may mean,but is it any surprise that I "have faith" in God's word and not so often do I trust the words of people,once again no surprise,and yeah I'm no brainiac like some who go through multiple bibles or think on theological stuff(I don't bother with it typically)but I make room for the holy spirit,instead of shutting my heart closed with being sure of myself all the time or as I call it "being a wise guy" making remarks or using scripture the wrong way such as do did with the "wages of sin is death" scripture,using it likely to say that because of sin babies die which is preposterous so I called immature,you seem at times not to know when to hold your tongue,for you seek often to say something crass or snide even concerning scripture,I can tell you from experience that path is bad because you hurt others with such behavior,one must learn when joking ends and discussing scripture begins,I appreciate a laugh just as much as anyone but as according to Ecclesiastes Chp.3 there is "a time for everything".
For your vulgar comment provoked me to go to bat for children because you quoted that one scripture as a joke or you simply didn't know what it meant,because the "wages of sin is death" doesn't refer to that just because anyone has sin that they have the possibility of dieing,it is referring to persisting to "continue in sin" that one dies not necessarily physically but spiritually,for think on it,wages are payments for an action just like in a work place,so to receive such earnings one must "do something" to receive a wage,since a baby can't do something knowingly for such wages to be applied to them,they don't spiritually due to God's attesting for them but still can die in some physical way,for tell me whom is immortal but God and his angels,his son and holy spirit?
considering that Satan sinned against God multiple times and still persists to do so,how does he not die physically if your use of that one piece of scripture is to be true,for Satan would have passed away by now if sin means that one dies physically just from having sin,Satan not only has sin as well as sins ever presently yet doesn't die physically,how could this be possible?
think on it and consider how absurd,that one can apply the wages of sin to babies.

Vulgar comment? Where?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Totally unnecessary post.

That's oaky. I have two more chunks of wood added to my burn pile now.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I do agree with much of what you posted here brother.

Well, I do think we do share more beliefs than we do not share. We both agree that we are saved by grace through faith, but we come at it from two different angles.

The main part where I still struggle to see you point is where you said we can not believe in universal atonement with out being a universalist.

Well, God has never tried to do anything. He either does it or He does not. He does not try to save anyone; He either saves them or He does not. I will answer the universalist portion of this quote below.

There are just too many scriptures that say Jesus died for the whole world and for all men's sin for me to disregard. I in no means think that all will be saved so I am not a universalist by any stretch. I just can't find any other meaning to those verses such as 1 John 2:2 and the many other verses that state that he died for all. 1 John 2:2 “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Here's where you need to further study the word 'propitiation'. It means to appease, satisfy, satiate God's wrath. Now, first off, it was God who was propitiated and not us. He was the One who was offended by our rebellion. 'Propitiation' also means to atone, as the NIV uses 'atoning sacrifice' in lieu of 'propitiation'. Now, if everybody's sins have been atoned, then there's no more God's wrath, because His wrath has been appeased, satisfied, satiated.

'Appease' also mean to reconcile, and reconcile means to make two enemies friends. Look at 2 Corinthians 5:19 when Paul wrote that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. Now, if God was in Christ reconciling the world, then the whole world, all ppl of all time w/o exception have now been made God's friends. None of those who are God's friends will die lost. Also, there's a 500 lb gorilla in that verse that needs addressed. Those who are being reconciled God does not count their sins against them. In other words, if this means that Christ is not holding ppl's sins against them, then they are 1) God's friends, and 2) their sins are not held against them. If this is universal in scope(meaning everybody of all time), then its universalism.

In my view, this is the gift of God (grace of God) to anyone who will accept it. He sends out an invitation to all, but we know that not all will accept that invitation. He knows who will and who won't accept him, but I do not believe that he predestined or made that choice for anyone. We become grafted in (elect) when we accept him into our lives. To the gentiles he says he grafted us in...to Israel he says they were cut out because of their unbelief...but if they abide not in their unbelief he is able to graft them back in again.(Romans 11)

If you deny God predestines anybody, then what about Ephesians 1:4 where it says we were chosen in Christ from BEFORE(not after we did something) the creation of the world?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Totally unnecessary post.

JoeFizz in his last post at me said this...

I wouldn't expect you to understand about the holy spirit.

I have been nothing but civil to the guy and then he called me 'wise guy', 'immature' and now 'I don't know anything about the Holy Spirit." That's why I took and burned his log in my burn pile.

 

[Jackson123]

You know what, I am a lot like you in some ways...I can be sarcastic and rude so I could set here and exchange jabs with you all day long. But what good is that going to do. I really am trying to censor myself and not just come off as a jerk...so God grant me the serenity...

I will say this, though, and then you can have it because I'm finished with it for the day....

No God is not a wimpy God...This shows how he set things up...He wants everyone to be saved but he is not forcing that upon anyone...He set this up from the beginning...When he gave Adam his command. It was Adam's choice to not obey God...Now we know God wasn't pleased with what Adam did...He called it sin, but he didn't step in and make Adam do what he said...just like he don't step in and make anyone accept him or follow his commands today. He set up "free will" or "free choice" or whatever you want to call it from the beginning and that theme continues all throughout the Bible. We could not save ourselves from sinning and that's why Jesus came...so that whosoever will believe upon him will be saved....It's a gift that we can accept or decline...But it's ultimately on us what decision we make...It's not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

Yep God want us to be Holy and we are not, that doesn't mean God is inept God or wimpy God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Meddico, you follow Arminius who was a Ramist and Infralapserianist. So you're a Dutch Remonstrandt.

(Since we're going to be outrageous in our attacks based on sheer arrogance and stupidity.)

A Ramist? What did he ram??

BOOM!!!!

 

[IamWhoIam]

Just so you know, lying about people and their beliefs isn't a good way to show love. Nor does it convince anyone you are loving.

As for crying for me? Many people have done that, and then gone on their merry way. I've cried over Old Yeller and ET. Doesn't mean all that much either. But when I cry and it means something, then I try to help. You simply attack, again and again. Going out of your way to find the opportunity to attack.

I judge by actions, not words. I see who you are. Who you are is someone angry enough to attack others who dare to disagree with you. And who keeps coming back, because once isn't enough.

(Pretty much why you're on ignore most the time. And, if you're wondering, generally only read what you say when others quote you.)

im sorry if you feel like people have cried for you yet gone their marry way that's not nice at all, but that is not me, like before I'm here now wanting to talk with you, and your story did touch my heart,,, at that time when I shedded the tears I didn't know what to say to you about the pain your heart was experiencing, I know you and your husband John have been through a lot, and I'm sorry life hasn't always been the most joyful, I know of that myself, life hasn't been so bliss for me either nor for a lot of people on earth.


I do apologize for saying the Calvinist belief is satanism, that wasn't nice of me to say, and I do apologize, "please" show me where I've been wrong and attacked again and again looking for opportunities to attack others, I dont see as I have attacked anyone that has disagreed with me, everyone has a view of things, I've debated over it of coarse, who has not debated over what they think is correct or not correct, you debate with others what is the difference between how I debate and you debate or anybody else that debates here at CC.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about keep coming back because once isn't enough?

Not that long ago, I did let things get under my skin and I put in a request to remove my account, after two days I realized I had not managed my own emotions very well and leaving wasn't what I wanted. I enjoy talking with others about God, scripture and just everyday things with others here. but one of admins honored my request and that account was deleted.

it is my belief that every person who has walked this earth has had to manage the basic 7 emotions in life.
Jesus was on earth in human form and managed these 7 emotions also, though Jesus managed them perfectly without sin.

These sevens emotions are not easy to manage it takes practiced to know when and how to properly express them rightly.

these are those seven basic emotions in my opinion, that there is a right and wrong way to express them.

Trust
Love
Joy
Anxiety
Grief
Fear
Angry

 

[IamWhoIam]

Thank you and I love and appreciate the both of you as well...

I have also read and seen many posts where I have been touched by Deplete's testimonies and some of her posts and threads...I guess, this area here is just one that we disagree butt heads on...and I hope I am using that word correctly because I'm definitely not referring to either one of us, her or me, as a butthead...lol

Hey sweetie, I know you are a strong woman and can handle yourself just fine, as I mentioned to you outside of CC, I kind of went into defense mode when I saw multible people giving you a hard time at once, I'm no different than anybody else who has a spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend when we see others giving someone we love a hard time it's like a knee jerk reaction, though I didn't want to start being nasty and mean to folks that is not right either two wrongs don't make a right.

So I resorted to what I've done before in times like that, to show love when my feelings are hurt and I wanted to divert that Harshness away from you and bring their attention unto me,,, I'm guilty of not being quick to think and slow to speak that is a work in progress seems like every day it's a challenge to say all the right things.

As you know all this already I wanted to share this so others may know why I chose the route of showing Love with songs etc. rather than being mean and ugly, that is not my nature to be mean and ugly, yes I can fall short of being the perfect gentlemen and saying everything perfectly correct all the time that alone is not easy to do at all.

have a good day, my sweetness.

 

[notuptome]

That's oaky. I have two more chunks of wood added to my burn pile now.

Wood hay and stubble will be consumed at the judgment seat of Christ.

1 Cor 3:11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Muzungu256]

Why are you using profanity in a post?

LOOOOOL...... its a bible word. im sure u have heard worse in your life......

btw can someone tell me how u can quote multiple parts from someone's post on this forum?????

 

[IamWhoIam]

LOOOOOL...... its a bible word. im sure u have heard worse in your life......

btw can someone tell me how u can quote multiple parts from someone's post on this forum?????

When create a respond to thread post, while you are in that reply to post, you will see on the far right a quote tab, you have to copy what you want to quote then place that Between the quoting marks, example like this

hey how are doing

good morning

have a nice day

hope this helps

 

[notuptome]

Hard to blame the Calvinist for lack of evangelism when there is so little evangelism even in historically evangelistic churches. Many pastors today lack faith in the power of Gods word to convert the hearts of men to Christ.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Gods hand is not slack concerning His promises He will accomplish that which He purposes.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[IamWhoIam]

These verses I learned of just a little while ago, in my opinion does highlight some of evangelizing part of the elect.


Colossians 3:12-15

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive any complaint you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which is the bond of perfect unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.