Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

The fact that you compare the sealing of the Spirit with a bowl of lasagna and then state that you must keep yourself saved while disregarding the words and promises of Jesus = no value with any view you post.....and your last line reeks of ignorance to the max......We are born of incorruptible seed....and that which is born of God does not sin..

Your view blasphemes the Holy Spirit, states that the seed can be corrupted and denies the inspired words of JOHN....and I see your working for buddies like your falsehoods and anti-God cake taking heresies

Phart's theology will alway's "stink" because he interpret's the bible as he see's fit to do. Corinthians chapter 7 is all about the Corinthian church repenting of their many sin's and Paul commending them. Pharts theology is wrong top to bottom.

2 Point's: Gnosticism has not regained popularity in the church under a new name, and any repentance or purifying ourself is a work of the Holy Spirit, not a work to "Keep ourself saved"

Quote:
"Now when the apostle says, "let us cleanse ourselves", this does not suppose that men have a power to cleanse themselves from the pollution of their nature, or the defilement of their actions; for this is God's work alone, as appears from his promises to cleanse his people from their sins; from the end of Christ's shedding his blood, and the efficacy of it; from the sanctifying influences of the Spirit;

Besides, the apostle is not here speaking either of the justification of these persons, in which sense they were already cleansed, and that thoroughly, from all their sins and iniquities; nor of the inward work of sanctification."

"Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." 2Corinthians7:1

"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?" 2Corinthians6:19

"Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" 1Corinthians3:16

Welcome back migo, I see the plane have a safe landing.......

Attribute: 2 Corinthians 7:1 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

 

[loveme1]

AMEN...and we are not afraid to call JESUS JESUS........

You are the man that teaches in church with a 9 on his hip.. preferring to use a name derived closer to the Messiah's Hebrew name is hardly a fear..

 

[VCO]

AMEN...and NO man can love God unless born from above because the love of God is spiritual and a process of growth and maturity.......

The Source of LOVE is GOD HIMSELF:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out
in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


1 John 4:8 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

 

[loveme1]

The Source of LOVE is GOD HIMSELF:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out
in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


1 John 4:8 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

John 3



16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[He_reigns]

Sabbath has always ben Saturday and always will be. Christians Worshiping on Sunday ARE NOT TRYING TO KEEP THE SABBATH BY CHANGING THE DAY. WE ARE WORSHIPING CHRIST ON A SUNDAY BECAUSE HE IS OUR RISEN LORD AND HE ROSE ON A SUNDAY. TRUE WORSHIP IS WHAT IS GOING ON IN ONE'S HEART, NOT WHERE AND WHEN YOU SITTING IN A PARTICULAR BUILDING, THEREFORE I TRULY WORSHIP HIM SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

Romans 14:5-6 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

My personal experience has been that the Sabbath Keepers get very exercised about our worshiping on Sunday, and falsely accuse us of Changing the Day of the Sabbath, almost ever time. We don't even think of Sunday as a form of keeping the Sabbath. That false idea is purely in the Suspicious Minds of Sabbath Keepers, in my opinion. It does not bother me if they want worship on Saturday, but when they say, and most do, insisting that I and all other Sunday Worshipers are not Right with God because we do not keep the Sabbath, I will refute that idea as False Teaching.

Please show me book, chapter and verse in the Bible that the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday. History shows us Constantine made a law and changed the day in AD 321 and the Roman Papacy confirmed this change at the council of Laodicea and affirmed the decision in AD 364.

This is not about returning to the law its about being a student of church history that you seem to ignore. Now show us all anywhere in the Bible the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday.

Just because history disagrees with your tradition and rules, does not mean history is wrong.

 

[Studyman]

No matter how he slices, dices, embellishes, twists, purees, mixes and or denies the facts....he espouses and pushes a false I keep myself saved working for dogma.....the fact he can lose it, forfeit it and MUST keep himself sealed and saved denies the work of Christ, the work of the Holy Spirit, denies the very verbiage of the bible, empowers self over Jesus and is the same version of "I WILL" found applied unto Lucifer before he fell and was cast put......and will have the same results when he is found in the "MANY" that boast about what they have done before the throne.....tragically I might add......!

Of course I respectfully disagree with this statement. For one, there is not one piece of evidence in the entire Bible that suggests satan ever tried to deceive someone into "obeying God". It tricks people into disobeying while believing they are serving Him. And it uses God's Words to do this as illustrated by the story of Eve.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These believed in Jesus, declared His name in everything they did. The called JESUS, JESUS. But they were rejected because of their works just the same.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Here is Jesus showing us another "Work" that is necessary for Salvation. Something we must do in order to be saved. This is Jesus speaking here, not me or some religious franchise owner.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Here is Jesus once again declaring works that are necessary for Salvation. His Word's, not mine.

Matt. 1038 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.:

Here is another "work" that is necessary for Salvation.

Once again, it is not me who opposes your statement, it is the Jesus of the Bible.

There used to be a Levitical Priesthood which was a separate law given to one tribe of Israel that was to used for the justification and remission of sins. This Levitical Priesthood (LP) had ceremonial, sacrificial "Deeds and Works" that were performed by the Levite Priests for the justification of sins. This LP was "ADDED" until the Seed should come. But the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people of Jesus' time didn't believe. They rejected Jesus as their Messiah and continued to perform the "Law of Moses" as it pertained to the remission of sins.

Paul is explaining to the Gentiles in Rom. 3 about these LP "works or Deeds of the Law" for remission and justification of sins.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The LP is no longer here since we are in the new covenant. Jesus is our High Priest. Now we are justified by Grace through Faith, not by the LP Ceremonial, sacrificial "Works or deeds of the Law" for justification and remission of sins.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Why is this important?

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Our works show who our faith is in. Are we faithful to a tradition soaked church that teaches for doctrines the commandments of men? Or are we faithful to God by submitting ourselves to His Righteousness and not our own.

There is one way for us to know for sure if we have been deceived or not.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


Did Jesus honor His Father with obedience, law keeping, Sabbath keeping? Yes He did, there can be no denying that.

Did Jesus forgive sins by "Works or Deeds" of the Levitical Priesthood? No He did not. He forgave those whose works showed their faith.

Matt. 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (Her works of faith)
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

I hope you might consider these words, though I know what it means to Mainstream Doctrine.

Great thread, thanks for posting

 

[He_reigns]

I attend a non-denominational church that worships on Sunday because that's when Christ rose from the dead and they also understand that the weekly Sabbath day was always Saturday and keeping the Sabbath day with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13), was part of a covenant with Israel that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)

Please show us book, chapter and verse anywhere in the Bible what you say about changing the day is true.
Where in the new covenant in the Bible was the day changed?

It is for people like you to admit the day was changed by the RCC and not the Bible.

I worshiped God today on the way to work. God cares less about the day and about spirit and truth and heart condition.

 

[He_reigns]

you are also entitled to believe what you wish, but we are not saved by works or law or Sabbath keeping, but by grace only.

This is not about Sabbath/ Saturday keeping it is about traditions you adhere to not found anywhere in the Bible, but changed by by Constantine and the RCC.

Now get spitting mad and let your heads explode, and come after all of us, but you are being led to worship on a day, changed by people you really disagree with and not found anywhere in the Bible or the New Covenant. That does not change the truth, it just challenges your version of your truth, your traditions and your pride.

When I see this I am reminded how many people simply have someone else's knowledge of the Bible that they were told and taught, not what the Bible actually states.

 

[gb9]

1st John 3 v. 22- and whatever we ask we receive from Him because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

v 23- and this is His commandment that we that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us.

context people, context. please stop abusing the Word this way. ii is intentional deception.

 

[loveme1]

1st John 3 v. 22- and whatever we ask we receive from Him because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

v 23- and this is His commandment that we that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us.

context people, context. please stop abusing the Word this way. ii is intentional deception.

Those verses affirm what is being shared... part of not in place of...

 

[He_reigns]

Straw man argument. You are obviously obsessed with the Sabbath and are determined to turn keeping the Sabbath into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant. I hear your same arguments from SDA's all the time.

Which same Commandments in LOVE still apply to the Church?

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

Show us in the Bible that says Church is now on Sunday because Jesus was raised on that day.
You cannot and you wont, because it is not there.

I am not a sabbath keeper either, I got to service on many different days of the week. I think its hilarious that phart pointed out you all follow a tradition and accuse others of doing the very same thing you do, but you do it on Sunday. Alarming to me is the fact you do not even understand how the day was changed and that ought to make you cringe more than fighting people for telling you the truth in the Bible.

Nobody worshiped on Sunday in the Bible. Not one person ! not even Jesus!

Now again, show us in the Bible that Sunday is the "right" day to worship.

 

[He_reigns]

What I'm against is for people in such groups as the SDA church who turn keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant. There is an elderly man on my mail route who has tried to convince me that I MUST (or else) keep the weekly Sabbath on Saturday and often brags that he does. He has encouraged me to tell my employer that I cannot work on Saturday in order to keep the Sabbath day holy and even implied that those who don't will not make it to heaven.

I have never once heard this man share the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) but he sure likes to talk about keeping the Saturday Sabbath day and those who worship God on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast. He is constantly slamming the Roman Catholic church for changing the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, but I understand the Sabbath day with all it's rules and regulations was Saturday and was part of a covenant with Israel that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant. Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

You can read some of the bizarre claims of the SDA church here - Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

But here you are demanding people do it on Sunday. That is the whole hypocrisy that phart just exposed.

 

[gb9]

Those verses affirm what is being shared... part of not in place of...

people love to quote 1st John about keeping the commandments , but stop short of stating what John is referring to.

and hmmmmm no mention in the Sabbath. was John as false teacher because he did not refer to the Sabbath at what would have been the perfect time to mention it, while has talking about commands and all.........

 

[loveme1]

people love to quote 1st John about keeping the commandments , but stop short of stating what John is referring to.

and hmmmmm no mention in the Sabbath. was John as false teacher because he did not refer to the Sabbath at what would have been the perfect time to mention it, while has talking about commands and all.........

here is something warming..

1 John 2

26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[gb9]

This is not about Sabbath/ Saturday keeping it is about traditions you adhere to not found anywhere in the Bible, but changed by by Constantine and the RCC.

Now get spitting mad and let your heads explode, and come after all of us, but you are being led to worship on a day, changed by people you really disagree with and not found anywhere in the Bible or the New Covenant. That does not change the truth, it just challenges your version of your truth, your traditions and your pride.

When I see this I am reminded how many people simply have someone else's knowledge of the Bible that they were told and taught, not what the Bible actually states.

let me help you with your history lessons- the whole world was never under the Old Covenant or the Torah. only Israel.
what do you think the word proselyte was used to describe gentiles who converted to Judaism ? why would they have to convert to something they were already a part of?

 

[loveme1]

Read through and you will learn that the saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus... written after Paul's writings... Paul taught us to Keep GOD's Law.. granted he is hard understood to those who know not the law.. but one must build their tabernacle upon the Words of Christ.. believe Him... and the power of GOD will enlighten you.. but unbelief in the Words that give Everlasting life and you will not grow in Grace and knowledge...

 

[loveme1]

Peace and love you all. All glory to Heavenly Father and our Lord and Saviour.

 

[Studyman]

Originally Posted by mailmandan

Straw man argument. You are obviously obsessed with the Sabbath and are determined to turn keeping the Sabbath into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant. I hear your same arguments from SDA's all the time.

Which same Commandments in LOVE still apply to the Church?

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15

Jesus is Lord of God's Sabbaths. How can you reject His Sabbaths?

2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21

Who is this image of a long haired men's hair shampoo model Mainstream Christianity created and calls Jesus? Is that not against the very first Commandment?

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not against them. Therefore we should not listen to men who judge us for obeying the same Commandments Jesus and His Apostles walked in.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

All has not been fulfilled, we still have His 2nd coming, The millennial rule and the great throne judgment. All portrayed in God's Salvation plan called His Feasts.

These are all for us, not against us. Our death, which is by the "law" is what Jesus nailed to the cross. Not His Fathers righteousness.

I'm not part of any SDA or any other religious franchise in this country. But still, how can you possibly preach that God's Holy Sabbath that were "made for man", is now "against" man and nailed to the cross.

How do you justify this preaching?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are entitled to believe as you wish but Loving GOD is part of the New Covenant.

So you think Mailmandan does not believe loving god is part of the new covenant?

Wow. Just wow. Where do you get these ideas? You certainly do not get them from the people you are accusing. They do not say such things, they believe the opposite of these things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are also entitled to believe what you wish, but we are not saved by works or law or Sabbath keeping, but by grace only.

Did she ever admit that she believes we must work to maintain salvation ir if she does not believe it yet? If not. She is unreliable anyway, she can not even back up her own belief.