[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”[/FONT]
Which of Jesus' teachings were applicable only to the Jews?
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There is no conflict.
If there appears to be, go with what Jesus said imo. Peter said many will be twisting Paul's letters and boy was he right! All the false doctrines we got are twisted from Paul's writings starting from Ephesians 2:8-9 to make obeying Jesus optional and a work. Butchering through the book of Romans also comes to mind. Hard to tell sometimes if its just laziness not checking the OT quotes from Paul or if its just not caring.
Paul was an apostle to the gentiles so he dealt alot with the topics surrounding judaizers and church order and structure. Interestingly, while the not of works from Paul is noted and very very closely held, when it comes to 1 corinthians 14:34-36 (or 1 tim 2:12). then it doesnt really matter, who cares right? Its probably something under the law. Probably means something different in the greek, i dunno. Lets ask the experts and bible pundits.
If there appears to be, go with what Jesus said imo. Peter said many will be twisting Paul's letters and boy was he right! All the false doctrines we got are twisted from Paul's writings starting from Ephesians 2:8-9 to make obeying Jesus optional and a work. Butchering through the book of Romans also comes to mind. Hard to tell sometimes if its just laziness not checking the OT quotes from Paul or if its just not caring.
Paul was an apostle to the gentiles so he dealt alot with the topics surrounding judaizers and church order and structure. Interestingly, while the not of works from Paul is noted and very very closely held, when it comes to 1 corinthians 14:34-36 (or 1 tim 2:12). then it doesnt really matter, who cares right? Its probably something under the law. Probably means something different in the greek, i dunno. Lets ask the experts and bible pundits.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 15:24, “And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’yl.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Yisra’yl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 15:24, “And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’yl.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Yisra’yl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]
God's Word prevails, and as such, Jesus is the one who taught the apostle Paul, therefore it is not a case of Jesus versus Paul. What Paul taught Jesus affirms because Jesus is the one who taught it to him, and he, Paul, wrote it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The only reason there might seem to be a conflict, and has been stated numerous times though people prefer to defame, is simply a matter of a shift in covenant. One becoming obsolete and a new one being implemented. That Jesus said certain things that pertained to specific individuals cannot be refuted, it is obvious. Even more so when you consider that He said to do things that in no way reflect the reality of what we have in the New Testament.
It is not a contradiction so much so as going from one covenant to another. Sin has been dealt with in another matter and forgiveness too obtained through another means, in essence. Forgiveness granted through Christ, and His bloodshed as opposed to animal sacrifices and confession. Those things a shadow. So much of people's misconceptions and misapplications are due to not considering, truly, what Jesus accomplished through His sufferings for our sake. They seek what He has already granted, trying to find and earn something He has already graciously provided without merit on our own.
It is not a contradiction so much so as going from one covenant to another. Sin has been dealt with in another matter and forgiveness too obtained through another means, in essence. Forgiveness granted through Christ, and His bloodshed as opposed to animal sacrifices and confession. Those things a shadow. So much of people's misconceptions and misapplications are due to not considering, truly, what Jesus accomplished through His sufferings for our sake. They seek what He has already granted, trying to find and earn something He has already graciously provided without merit on our own.
When you carefully examine the teachings of Paul and the other apostles, they DO NOT NECESSARILY REPEAT what Christ has already taught. However, (a) they BUILD UPON the teachings of Christ, and (b) they expand those teachings and provide further light. But that is all under Divine revelation. The evangelists (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) and the apostles were both prophets and apostles, and the words they said and wrote were given by Divine inspiration. Even when it seemingly appears that Paul is giving his *opinion* it is not really his opinion. And that is why Peter equates ALL OF PAUL'S EPISTLES with Scripture.
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15,16).
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15,16).
You still dont get how a testament works? Still pushing the same weird view?
Do you got ANY scripture for this? ANY verse?
What about this verse:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Notice how it says teach ALL THAT I HAVE(past tense) COMMANDED YOU, how is that possible in your twisted doctrine? It should read: Teach all that I will say through Paul, not what I told you in the past, thats old covenant!
I demand an answer this is really really important!
Do you got ANY scripture for this? ANY verse?
What about this verse:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Notice how it says teach ALL THAT I HAVE(past tense) COMMANDED YOU, how is that possible in your twisted doctrine? It should read: Teach all that I will say through Paul, not what I told you in the past, thats old covenant!
I demand an answer this is really really important!
Of course they are valid. I suppose we must come to an understanding of in what way are they valid. I think this comes down to context, and again, covenant. I will give one example. Forgive others or your heavenly Father won't forgive you. It sounds very legalistic, and works-orientated, does it not? Does this sound like grace to you? Does it sound like it, salvation, is a free gift or a wage due?
If my forgiveness relies upon me forgiving others then Jesus isn't my savior, I am. That sounds blasphemous, but think about it. Did Jesus die on the cross and resurrect unto my justification and forgiveness through the remission of my sins (through His bloodshed) or have I obtained forgiveness through my willingness to forgive others? If my forgiveness is dependent upon my actions instead of the actions of our Lord, then salvation no longer hinges upon faith in Christ, but my heart towards others.
There is a dilemma here, and I solve this dilemma with an understanding of the new covenant versus the old covenant. They sought forgiveness, we have forgiveness.
Please share your understanding with me, let us grow together. There doesn't need to be any infighting, just consider my position. It is not blasphemous, it simply resolves the apparent contradiction.
If my forgiveness relies upon me forgiving others then Jesus isn't my savior, I am. That sounds blasphemous, but think about it. Did Jesus die on the cross and resurrect unto my justification and forgiveness through the remission of my sins (through His bloodshed) or have I obtained forgiveness through my willingness to forgive others? If my forgiveness is dependent upon my actions instead of the actions of our Lord, then salvation no longer hinges upon faith in Christ, but my heart towards others.
There is a dilemma here, and I solve this dilemma with an understanding of the new covenant versus the old covenant. They sought forgiveness, we have forgiveness.
Please share your understanding with me, let us grow together. There doesn't need to be any infighting, just consider my position. It is not blasphemous, it simply resolves the apparent contradiction.
If people could just understand that the New Covenant pertains to the remission of sins and not the definition of sin, Paul I a lot easier to understand. He fought the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people who rejected Jesus his whole life. They were still preaching their "Doctrines and Commandments of men" they called the "Law of Moses" which still included the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Word or Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins.
Paul speaks to these "Works of the Law" in Romans and Gal. Todays Mainstream Church preaches that these "Works" are the entire Law structure of God. But that is not true. This Levitical Priesthood was "Added" to God's Commandments, ordinances and Laws that Abraham lived in. This Levitical Priesthood was added 430 years after Abraham, therefore Abraham was justified "Apart from the Law" as it is written.
Once you understand that the New Covenant was the fulfillment of this "Priesthood" as mentioned in Heb. 7-10, and not the elimination or change in the definition of sin as set forth by God, you will understand Paul a whole lot better.
Good topic, great thread
Paul speaks to these "Works of the Law" in Romans and Gal. Todays Mainstream Church preaches that these "Works" are the entire Law structure of God. But that is not true. This Levitical Priesthood was "Added" to God's Commandments, ordinances and Laws that Abraham lived in. This Levitical Priesthood was added 430 years after Abraham, therefore Abraham was justified "Apart from the Law" as it is written.
Once you understand that the New Covenant was the fulfillment of this "Priesthood" as mentioned in Heb. 7-10, and not the elimination or change in the definition of sin as set forth by God, you will understand Paul a whole lot better.
Good topic, great thread
May Yah bless you and guide us all! So the way I see it Yah has always been merciful, to saygrace only came in the NT would be to say He changed, yet Scripture says He does not, and this is out of His mouth;
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
and Yahshua says HIs words are life and will last forever;
John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
and He is very clear about what He requirees of us;
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
and finally with the verses in mind, how could anything He said be done away, cast aside, or made obselete post Sacrifice?
and even if one still has this view, we can look to the final Revelation given to mankind, and it's not "the Revelation of John" its:
Rev 1:1, "Revelation of יהושע Messiah, which YHWH gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,"
1:1, "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,"
in this final message He says;
Revelation 3:15-16, “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I would that you were cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am going to vomit you out of My mouth."
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."
Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”
Revelation 22:7, “See, I am coming speedily! Blessed is he who obeys the words of the prophecy of this book.”
Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."
So even if His words were made obselete at His Sacrifice (they were not) this is post Sacrifice and the FINAL message. Also I will be adding a second post to this reply, but I want it seperate because to me it's important.
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
and Yahshua says HIs words are life and will last forever;
John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
and He is very clear about what He requirees of us;
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
and finally with the verses in mind, how could anything He said be done away, cast aside, or made obselete post Sacrifice?
and even if one still has this view, we can look to the final Revelation given to mankind, and it's not "the Revelation of John" its:
Rev 1:1, "Revelation of יהושע Messiah, which YHWH gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,"
1:1, "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,"
in this final message He says;
Revelation 3:15-16, “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I would that you were cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am going to vomit you out of My mouth."
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."
Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”
Revelation 22:7, “See, I am coming speedily! Blessed is he who obeys the words of the prophecy of this book.”
Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."
So even if His words were made obselete at His Sacrifice (they were not) this is post Sacrifice and the FINAL message. Also I will be adding a second post to this reply, but I want it seperate because to me it's important.
Yahshua/Jesus was prophesied as THE Prophet we MUST shama;
John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
*Mosheh wrote:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}
Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”
and His words line up perfectly with this;
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
*Mosheh wrote:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}
Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”
and His words line up perfectly with this;
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
7
well it seems to me you are looking for something to find fault with
thinking I am insinuating the op is anti-Jewish is absolute nonsense
if I thought he was? I would simply have said so. I'm not that politically correct
thing is, you and I have had this discussion before, wherein you state you or someone else is correctly dividing the word
so, it seems to me, again, you are looking for something
we both know we do not agree on what the other believes
prob best to just leave it at that IMO
thinking I am insinuating the op is anti-Jewish is absolute nonsense
if I thought he was? I would simply have said so. I'm not that politically correct
thing is, you and I have had this discussion before, wherein you state you or someone else is correctly dividing the word
so, it seems to me, again, you are looking for something
we both know we do not agree on what the other believes
prob best to just leave it at that IMO
7
If people could just understand that the New Covenant pertains to the remission of sins and not the definition of sin, Paul I a lot easier to understand. He fought the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people who rejected Jesus his whole life. They were still preaching their "Doctrines and Commandments of men" they called the "Law of Moses" which still included the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Word or Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins.
Paul speaks to these "Works of the Law" in Romans and Gal. Todays Mainstream Church preaches that these "Works" are the entire Law structure of God. But that is not true. This Levitical Priesthood was "Added" to God's Commandments, ordinances and Laws that Abraham lived in. This Levitical Priesthood was added 430 years after Abraham, therefore Abraham was justified "Apart from the Law" as it is written.
Once you understand that the New Covenant was the fulfillment of this "Priesthood" as mentioned in Heb. 7-10, and not the elimination or change in the definition of sin as set forth by God, you will understand Paul a whole lot better.
Good topic, great thread
Paul speaks to these "Works of the Law" in Romans and Gal. Todays Mainstream Church preaches that these "Works" are the entire Law structure of God. But that is not true. This Levitical Priesthood was "Added" to God's Commandments, ordinances and Laws that Abraham lived in. This Levitical Priesthood was added 430 years after Abraham, therefore Abraham was justified "Apart from the Law" as it is written.
Once you understand that the New Covenant was the fulfillment of this "Priesthood" as mentioned in Heb. 7-10, and not the elimination or change in the definition of sin as set forth by God, you will understand Paul a whole lot better.
Good topic, great thread
as someone who has pointed out that salvation has ALWAYS been by faith a good number of times now, don't hold your breath for acknowledgement from someone saying old and new covenants
there are a good half dozen...I believe 7 covenants...and some believe more
that doesn't play on their list of the Bible's greatest hits
I absolutely believe the importance of righteousness, scripture is clear on this. I believe everything Jesus said, especially in regards to loving others as He loved us (and still loves us). I don't take issue with Jesus' commandments and his expounding upon the commandments of God. As you know, the Law is holy, righteous and good. God's word says that if there were a law that could have been given to impart life it would've been done through the Law (Gal 3:21). Yet as we also know, that is not the case, while it is these things it was unable to make us so (in practicality).
This then opens up the discussion of, how did God resolve this and make it so that we could walk in righteousness?
My issue mostly when people quote Jesus is a misapplication of His words in contrast with new covenant realities. Its as if a person tells you to go sacrifice an animal for your sin when Jesus is the once and for all sacrifice for sin. Your mind goes, "Definitely not!", as you know that your forgiveness is through Christ's sacrifice and not an animals (which was a shadow).
When people start telling others very legalistic notions of earning their forgiveness and base it upon the words of Jesus, this I stand against because it tramples underfoot the Son of God by not acknowledging His sacrifice (and that which was accomplished through it). Mainly the forgiveness of sins, the remission of our sin.
It is not as if I disregard His words, when you think about what I brought up earlier about forgiveness the emphasis is on hypocrisy, is it not? How can I not forgive others their trespasses when the Father has forgiven mine? What a hypocrite I would be. That is the new covenant response, forgive as the Father has forgiven you for Christ's sake. You are forgiven therefore forgive. Not forgive so that you may be forgiven. Do you see the apparent contradiction in these two stances? So to me, I see it as a lesson in hypocrisy.
This then opens up the discussion of, how did God resolve this and make it so that we could walk in righteousness?
My issue mostly when people quote Jesus is a misapplication of His words in contrast with new covenant realities. Its as if a person tells you to go sacrifice an animal for your sin when Jesus is the once and for all sacrifice for sin. Your mind goes, "Definitely not!", as you know that your forgiveness is through Christ's sacrifice and not an animals (which was a shadow).
When people start telling others very legalistic notions of earning their forgiveness and base it upon the words of Jesus, this I stand against because it tramples underfoot the Son of God by not acknowledging His sacrifice (and that which was accomplished through it). Mainly the forgiveness of sins, the remission of our sin.
It is not as if I disregard His words, when you think about what I brought up earlier about forgiveness the emphasis is on hypocrisy, is it not? How can I not forgive others their trespasses when the Father has forgiven mine? What a hypocrite I would be. That is the new covenant response, forgive as the Father has forgiven you for Christ's sake. You are forgiven therefore forgive. Not forgive so that you may be forgiven. Do you see the apparent contradiction in these two stances? So to me, I see it as a lesson in hypocrisy.
as someone who has pointed out that salvation has ALWAYS been by faith a good number of times now, don't hold your breath for acknowledgement from someone saying old and new covenants
there are a good half dozen...I believe 7 covenants...and some believe more
that doesn't play on their list of the Bible's greatest hits[/QUOTE
Ya, I know most can not accept.
there are a good half dozen...I believe 7 covenants...and some believe more
that doesn't play on their list of the Bible's greatest hits
[/QUOTEYa, I know most can not accept.
7
oh yes
'people'
but no one here. try to understand what people you do not agree with are actually saying and it has nothing to do with earning salvation or works salvation or whatever hobby horse you want to ride into the discussion
you are deviating from the op by inserting the usual rhetoric about how anyone who does not agree with certain things you perceive as correct, must, by default, believe in working, or earning or working to earn or keep, their salvation
it's like throwing out bait for a discussion that has been had multiple times to the exhaustion of all
let it go already. no one is saying anything close to works salvation
'people'
but no one here. try to understand what people you do not agree with are actually saying and it has nothing to do with earning salvation or works salvation or whatever hobby horse you want to ride into the discussion
you are deviating from the op by inserting the usual rhetoric about how anyone who does not agree with certain things you perceive as correct, must, by default, believe in working, or earning or working to earn or keep, their salvation
it's like throwing out bait for a discussion that has been had multiple times to the exhaustion of all
let it go already. no one is saying anything close to works salvation
Yeah so I pretty muchagree with everything, I may have worder it differently, and may slighty differ in view, but overall I agree, I want to reply 2 things here;
Im sure you already know this but still, He changes our heart and strengths us;
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore, if anyone is in Messiah, he is a renewed creature – the old matters have passed away, see, all matters have become renewed!”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 25:8-10, “Good and upright is [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. All the paths of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.” [/FONT]
I think you are implying what I believe, it's a lesson not to be a hypocrite, we are to be after His likeness, and He walks and judges rightly, as we should.
Im sure you already know this but still, He changes our heart and strengths us;
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore, if anyone is in Messiah, he is a renewed creature – the old matters have passed away, see, all matters have become renewed!”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 25:8-10, “Good and upright is [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. All the paths of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.” [/FONT]
I think you are implying what I believe, it's a lesson not to be a hypocrite, we are to be after His likeness, and He walks and judges rightly, as we should.