baptism

[PJW]

Again you are choosing to ignore the possible root word. You ignored my challenge to list book, chapter and verses giving the method of baptism. That Greek word has bias built in by the authors preconceived concept of the meaning of the word. You have to go back to when the word was created not modern Greek. That word didn't exist in 1 AD. We are talking about Biblical Greek not modern Greek.

I am very familiar with exigesis and have used it. Especially in this context. Remember I started out as immersion only and my exegesis forced me into rejecting that. You seem to be using eisigesis yourself since you try so hard to put words in my mouth I never stated.

Why not use the Ethiopian's experience to solve this "riddle"?
They went "both into the water"...
Baptize means "immerse or fully whelm". (Strong's Concordance.)

 

[PJW]

Sorry, I got here late.
Sounds like you're discussing John 13:10
"Jesus said to them, He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean".
NASB

The person that is born again is already all clean. Jesus has washed him.
Only the feet need to be cleaned is referring to sin after baptism and the born again experience.
Then it is necessary to only ask for forgiveness: it's not necessary to be born again repeatedly.

Sorry if this was already said.

If you were "born again", of Godly seed, you cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
There is no sin after rebirth.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

If you were "born again", of Godly seed, you cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
There is no sin after rebirth.

I can hardly wait for those who believe they are without sin to brag about their sinless perfection when they stand before God.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Don't know where you are going with this, but wasn't that the reason Peter disconnected with the Gentiles?
The reason, you assert, Peter sinned?

you have me mixed up with someone else

I never mentioned Peter but I know someone else did

however, John the apostle talks about you and the rest of us in the following from I John 1

apparently anyone who says the have no sin is a liar

choose to say that does not apply to you and John, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, calls you a liar and states you do not have fellowship with Jesus and the Father

that's serious stuff and not my words


[FONT=&quot]5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.[/FONT]

 

[7seasrekeyed]

As I am aware that scripture provides the way to be "perfect", (2 Tim 3:17), it must be you having trouble adhering to the truth...which can set you free from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)

give it a rest already

you just twist words and skew verses

5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1

 

[LittleGirl]

If you were "born again", of Godly seed, you cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
There is no sin after rebirth.

Well, one is indeed born of Godly seed if he is born again.
Can one be born again of satan? No, because he already belongs to satan.

So are you telling me you're absolutely perfect and have never sinned after being born of above?
This is wonderful.

So you know God is your number one thought every morning and every evening.
You love nothing more than God.

You have no pictures or statues of Jesus anywhere in your home/office.
No crucifixese, medals, etc. Maybe a mass card someone sent? Careful...

You never take the name of God in vain --- well, we'll give you that one. I doubt anyone here really does.

You worship on Saturday? Oh. On Sunday? OK. We have to give you that one too. You never miss a week, right?
Do you go shopping on that day? Do any work? We're to keep the day purely holy,not just go to church. Do you do other things to do God's work on that day? I sure hope so...

You never get upset with your mother or father? You accept everything they ask you to do and ask you to believe?

Have you ever killed anyone? How about hate..have you ever hated anyone? That's like murder according to Jesus.

You married? You single? No difference. Have you ever looked upon a woman with lust? That's like adultery.

Did you ever steal? Maybe you stole some time from your children. Maybe from a wife, girlfriend, a friend. So much could be stolen besides material things. How about someone's reputation? Ever said anything bad about anybody?

Have you ever lied about a neighbor or friend, for whatever reason?

Coveting. That's a biggie. Wanting what you can't have. It could be food. Are you happy if God gives you no food?



So, is this what you mean?
If so, you've made John to be a liar...
You skipped over 1 John 1:9-10

If you notice 1 John 3:9 it says that anyone who knows and is born of God does not PRACTICE sin, and he cannot sin.
Do you hear a conflict there?
Practice sin means to make a habit of it.
Then John says we cannot sin.
But he just said in 1 John 1 that we DO sin. So which is it?
It's semantics...John means to make a practice of sin because we will sin.
His words, not mine.

If this is NOT what you mean, then please clarify.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you were "born again", of Godly seed, you cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
There is no sin after rebirth.

If what you say is true, then none of the apostles should have been admonishing Christians to "walk in the Spirit" and to "mortify the flesh". Everyone would have automatically been sinless and perfect. So it would appear that you are already a "perfected one" (and even Paul the apostle would not make that claim).

 

[PJW]

I can hardly wait for those who believe they are without sin to brag about their sinless perfection when they stand before God.

There won't be any bragging, but there will be plenty of thanksgiving.
There will be thanksgiving to God for making the way to kill the old man of flesh and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
A life gendered by His seed, that cannot bring forth evil fruit.

 

[PJW]

you have me mixed up with someone else
I never mentioned Peter but I know someone else did

That was my reply to post 228...by you.

however, John the apostle talks about you and the rest of us in the following from I John 1
apparently anyone who says the have no sin is a liar

Not "anyone", but those who walk in the darkness, (sin, as per Pro 4:19), are the liars.
The verses before and after your verse point out that ALL our sin/unrighteousness can be cleansed...if we walk in the light.
If your POV is right, then verses 7 and 9 are lies.
John is talking about two very different walks. Some of the verses reference those who walk in the darkness and the others reference those who walk in God-light.

Thanks to God's infinite mercy and grace, I have been enabled to confess my past sins and be washed by the blood of Christ for their remission.
All my past sin is gone.
I am now walking in the light, and free of service to sin, just as Jesus promised in John 8:32-34.

 

[PJW]

give it a rest already
you just twist words and skew verses
5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1

It is written..."The way of the wicked is as darkness:" (Pro 4:19)
Darkness equates to sin.
If all our sins can be cleansed, why can we not acknowledge God's wonderful mercy?
After the cleansing, it is up to us to remain in the light.
And thankfully, God enables it to happen!
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Look for the escapes![/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Well, one is indeed born of Godly seed if he is born again.
Can one be born again of satan? No, because he already belongs to satan.
So are you telling me you're absolutely perfect and have never sinned after being born of above?
This is wonderful.

That is correct, thanks be to God.

So you know God is your number one thought every morning and every evening.
You love nothing more than God.

Yup.
Isn't that what God demands?

You have no pictures or statues of Jesus anywhere in your home/office.
No crucifixes, medals, etc. Maybe a mass card someone sent? Careful.

None, as that would be idolatry.

You never take the name of God in vain --- well, we'll give you that one. I doubt anyone here really does.

Never.

You worship on Saturday? Oh. On Sunday? OK. We have to give you that one too. You never miss a week, right?
Do you go shopping on that day? Do any work? We're to keep the day purely holy,not just go to church. Do you do other things to do God's work on that day? I sure hope so...

I worship everyday, as I am in His rest everyday.

You never get upset with your mother or father? You accept everything they ask you to do and ask you to believe?

Both are long gone now, but if their request was a Godly one I would comply.

Have you ever killed anyone? How about hate..have you ever hated anyone? That's like murder according to Jesus.

I was once responsible for a death, but...as it is written..."For the wages of sin is death;" (Rom 6:23)
My wages, death, were paid to me when I was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:6)

You married? You single? No difference. Have you ever looked upon a woman with lust? That's like adultery.

Not since my conversion.

Did you ever steal? Maybe you stole some time from your children. Maybe from a wife, girlfriend, a friend. So much could be stolen besides material things. How about someone's reputation? Ever said anything bad about anybody?

No, and I have said nothing untrue.

Have you ever lied about a neighbor or friend, for whatever reason?

No, as God is my progenitor and I cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)

Coveting. That's a biggie. Wanting what you can't have. It could be food. Are you happy if God gives you no food?

No, as coveting is again, idolatry.
Neither do I commit any other sin even if allowable by the laws of this nation...porn, drugs, abortion, etc.
It is written..."Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

So, is this what you mean?
If so, you've made John to be a liar...
You skipped over 1 John 1:9-10

Not at all, as John writes of two DIFFERENT walks, one in the darkness and one in the light-God: I have been graciously allowed to walk in the light.

If you notice 1 John 3:9 it says that anyone who knows and is born of God does not PRACTICE sin, and he cannot sin.
Do you hear a conflict there?
Practice sin means to make a habit of it.
Then John says we cannot sin.
But he just said in 1 John 1 that we DO sin. So which is it?
It's semantics...John means to make a practice of sin because we will sin.
His words, not mine.

The word "practice" was added by the defenders of sin.
Can an oak tree bring forth onions?
Can a fig tree bring forth grapes?
Why do you think that God's seed can bring forth wickedness?
Aint happnin'.
I am glad of your interest in this topic, as most of the world is unaware of what being in Christ really entails.

 

[PJW]

If what you say is true, then none of the apostles should have been admonishing Christians to "walk in the Spirit" and to "mortify the flesh". Everyone would have automatically been sinless and perfect. So it would appear that you are already a "perfected one" (and even Paul the apostle would not make that claim).

Don't denigrate the exhortations of the Lord's apostles.
To let your guard down will be your second death.

BTW, didn't Paul write..."[FONT=&quot]Let us therefore, as many as be [/FONT]perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." (Philippians 3:15)
He knew perfect men.
[FONT=&quot]Paul also wrote..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Timothy 2:19 )
Paul also wrote..." Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)[/FONT]

 

[LittleGirl]

That is correct, thanks be to God.


Yup.
Isn't that what God demands?


None, as that would be idolatry.


Never.


I worship everyday, as I am in His rest everyday.


Both are long gone now, but if their request was a Godly one I would comply.


I was once responsible for a death, but...as it is written..."For the wages of sin is death;" (Rom 6:23)
My wages, death, were paid to me when I was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:6)


Not since my conversion.


No, and I have said nothing untrue.


No, as God is my progenitor and I cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)


No, as coveting is again, idolatry.
Neither do I commit any other sin even if allowable by the laws of this nation...porn, drugs, abortion, etc.
It is written..."Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)


Not at all, as John writes of two DIFFERENT walks, one in the darkness and one in the light-God: I have been graciously allowed to walk in the light.


The word "practice" was added by the defenders of sin.
Can an oak tree bring forth onions?
Can a fig tree bring forth grapes?
Why do you think that God's seed can bring forth wickedness?
Aint happnin'.
I am glad of your interest in this topic, as most of the world is unaware of what being in Christ really entails.

I'm new here.
I appreciate such a good reply.
I still don't understand....sorry.

Do you believe you were born with a sin nature?
Do you believe you still have one?

 

[LittleGirl]

That is correct, thanks be to God.


Yup.
Isn't that what God demands?


None, as that would be idolatry.


Never.


I worship everyday, as I am in His rest everyday.


Both are long gone now, but if their request was a Godly one I would comply.


I was once responsible for a death, but...as it is written..."For the wages of sin is death;" (Rom 6:23)
My wages, death, were paid to me when I was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:6)


Not since my conversion.


No, and I have said nothing untrue.


No, as God is my progenitor and I cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)


No, as coveting is again, idolatry.
Neither do I commit any other sin even if allowable by the laws of this nation...porn, drugs, abortion, etc.
It is written..."Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)


Not at all, as John writes of two DIFFERENT walks, one in the darkness and one in the light-God: I have been graciously allowed to walk in the light.


The word "practice" was added by the defenders of sin.
Can an oak tree bring forth onions?
Can a fig tree bring forth grapes?
Why do you think that God's seed can bring forth wickedness?
Aint happnin'.
I am glad of your interest in this topic, as most of the world is unaware of what being in Christ really entails.

I'll be looking up re the word Practice being added.
This is interesting.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Don't denigrate the exhortations of the Lord's apostles.

I would never denigrate the true apostles of the Lord, and Scripture says that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb. These twelve will sit on 12 thrones, ruling the 12 tribes of Israel in the future. But anyone claiming to be an apostle today is a charlatan. I trust you do not consider yourself an apostle, otherwise Christians would have to regard you as a charlatan.

To let your guard down will be your second death.

This sounds like a doctrine of devils. Those who have been born again are written in the Lamb's book of life, and will never face the second death (which is the Lake of Fire).

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That was my reply to post 228...by you.


Not "anyone", but those who walk in the darkness, (sin, as per Pro 4:19), are the liars.
The verses before and after your verse point out that ALL our sin/unrighteousness can be cleansed...if we walk in the light.
If your POV is right, then verses 7 and 9 are lies.
John is talking about two very different walks. Some of the verses reference those who walk in the darkness and the others reference those who walk in God-light.

Thanks to God's infinite mercy and grace, I have been enabled to confess my past sins and be washed by the blood of Christ for their remission.
All my past sin is gone.
I am now walking in the light, and free of service to sin, just as Jesus promised in John 8:32-34.

this is what the Holy Spirit says to you:

5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1

 

[7seasrekeyed]

the cult mindset will always find one thing and make a religion out of it while stating that no one but those in the cult have achieved whatever thing they deem they have made hallowed by their own efforts

you are not free in a cult

you are only free in Christ Jesus and He alone makes us free because He alone is truth

He is the Way (to God), the Truth (in and of all things) and the Life.

 

[LittleGirl]

don't forget matt 28.

water baptism is a command, we are to baptize all new disciples.

Just remember, Baptism in water will not wash one sin away,

Hi, First you said that water baptism is a command. All new disciples are to be baptized.
Because Jesus said so in Mathew 28.

Then you said water baptism does not wash one sin away.

Sounds like a contradiction.
Could you please explain?

 

[Ellsworth1943]

There won't be any bragging, but there will be plenty of thanksgiving.
There will be thanksgiving to God for making the way to kill the old man of flesh and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
A life gendered by His seed, that cannot bring forth evil fruit.

You say you became a Christian in 2004. Are you really telling us you have not sinned for 13 years now?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hi, First you said that water baptism is a command. All new disciples are to be baptized.
Because Jesus said so in Mathew 28.

Then you said water baptism does not wash one sin away.

Sounds like a contradiction.
Could you please explain?

I expect he will respond, but it is not too complicated. It is the blood of Christ which washes away our sins, and following that we are baptized as believers (and that is clearly a command). The error is in assuming that water can wash away sins, or sprinkling a baby can produce "baptismal regeneration".