Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Im asking, you are always accusing of mis deeds, possibly I misunderstood you the other day, that is why I asked the question again and you just poted the same response, when I saw you post this I wanted to ask. I have another question to clarify because I want to make sure Im understanding you;

When you say;



The spirit being reborn, Do you believe this has already happened, it happens when one believes, it happens atthe return of Yahshua, or some other time?

The bible is clear....it happens instantaneous at the moment of faith and this bears out based upon the following truths

a. The natural man cannot understand the word of God and or spiritually discern it. NO ONE could understand the word if not born from above. Comparing spiritual with spiritual

b. The born again spirit cries ABBA FATHER.....could not happen if not born again

c. The words of JESUS to his disciples....The SPIRIT is indeed willing but the flesh weak....could not be true if not already born again.

Just to name three off the top of my head.....there are others as well......these three should suffice.....

 

[Hizikyah]

The bible is clear....it happens instantaneous at the moment of faith and this bears out based upon the following truths

a. The natural man cannot understand the word of God and or spiritually discern it. NO ONE could understand the word if not born from above. Comparing spiritual with spiritual

b. The born again spirit cries ABBA FATHER.....could not happen if not born again

c. The words of JESUS to his disciples....The SPIRIT is indeed willing but the flesh weak....could not be true if not already born again.

Just to name three off the top of my head.....there are others as well......these three should suffice.....

OK so if it happens the moment one believes, but a human is still in the fleash for how ever many years they are alive or until His return, what happens when that person does sin? I mean you and I believe yet I at times still sin, since you believe do you still sin? If the spirit is reborn already then what is the function/consequence when one does sin in their flesh?

 

[dcontroversal]

OK so if it happens the moment one believes, but a human is still in the fleash for how ever many years they are alive or until His return, what happens when that person does sin? I mean you and I believe yet I at times still sin, since you believe do you still sin? If the spirit is reborn already then what is the function/consequence when one does sin in their flesh?

The bible is also clear....

Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound and because of this we are not condemned because we are in Christ.

If sin continues God will lay it on us through chastisement

If we continue to sin, God may make us wander in the wilderness, live with the hogs like the prodigal and or have no rest and peace in this life just as the children of Israel because of their failure to believe they could take and possess the land

If we refuse to get right he make allow for the destruction of the flesh

and all who fit the above bill (bolded) and possible the underlined will forfeit reward and or inheritance just like the prodigal or one who has works of wood, hay and stubble but will still be received as a son with the covering of Christ..

 

[Hizikyah]

The bible is also clear....

Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound and because of this we are not condemned because we are in Christ.

If sin continues God will lay it on us through chastisement

If we continue to sin, God may make us wander in the wilderness, live with the hogs like the prodigal and or have no rest and peace in this life just as the children of Israel because of their failure to believe they could take and possess the land

If we refuse to get right he make allow for the destruction of the flesh

and all who fit the above bill (bolded) and possible the underlined will forfeit reward and or inheritance just like the prodigal or one who has works of wood, hay and stubble but will still be received as a son with the covering of Christ..

but you are saying their spirit doesent sin and they still go to the kingdom even though they continue to sin and refuse to get it right? or no? Im trying to understand what you believe?

 

[Seohce]

Not hardly...polar opposites....THERE IS NO COMMANDMENT THAT LEADS TO LIFE.....and failing to keep the law does not result in the loss of salvation nor does it help keep salvation.....Galatians 1 and 3 states it is a false gospel with no power.

The 10 commandments are God's words and God is LOVE (1 john 4:8&16) and LOVE is the fulfillment of the law, and LOVE for God is to OBEY His commandments.

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. the words i have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Jeremiah 36:2 “Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now.

John 1:1-5 The Word Became Flesh In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

 

[dcontroversal]

but you are saying their spirit doesent sin and they still go to the kingdom even though they continue to sin and refuse to get it right? or no? Im trying to understand what you believe?

What part of the following is so hard for you to grasp

The SPIRIT is born of GOD, incorruptible, eternal, sealed in Christ, never sins, always right and seeking to do what is right

The BODY is dead because of SIN, not subject unto the word of GOD, wants to sin, seeks to sin and prone to sin YET UNCHANGED at the moment and WAITNG to be changed or resurrected in POWER

The MIND is the seat of intellect and either surrenders to the will of the SPIRT or the will of the FLESH.....if the SPIRIT we walk pleasing unto the LORD, if the FLESH we sin in the flesh and walk CONTRARY and not as a LIVING sacrifice.

THE latter does not change the state of the FIRST but can VEX the first (LOT)

THE mind WILL surrender more and more to the SPIRIT if it is RENEWED by the study of the WORD which feeds the SPIRIT and cause SPIRITUAL GROWTH, MATURITY and INCREASED faithfulness.

HOW is it that you do not understand this.......this is what the bible teaches

 

[dcontroversal]

The 10 commandments are God's words and God is LOVE (1 john 4:8&16) and LOVE is the fulfillment of the law, and LOVE for God is to OBEY His commandments.

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. the words i have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Jeremiah 36:2 “Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now.

John 1:1-5 The Word Became Flesh In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Tell ya what......you keep thinking that works and law keeping and thinking you are sinless will get you there....

I will keep believing that JESUS by grace through faith has saved me, sealed me, justified me and sanctified me eternally while placing ALL emphasis upon JESUS, HIS works, His power and His promises....

I am not going to argue your working for, law keeping, sinless perfectionist dogma any longer....

Please do me a favor....block me or do not address me any longer....you have proven to twist, embellish, attempted to shift focus, refused solid truth, misrepresented what we all teach, been deceptive in your approach and I am done with you....

 

[Hizikyah]

What part of the following is so hard for you to grasp

The SPIRIT is born of GOD, incorruptible, eternal, sealed in Christ, never sins, always right and seeking to do what is right

The BODY is dead because of SIN, not subject unto the word of GOD, wants to sin, seeks to sin and prone to sin YET UNCHANGED at the moment and WAITNG to be changed or resurrected in POWER

The MIND is the seat of intellect and either surrenders to the will of the SPIRT or the will of the FLESH.....if the SPIRIT we walk pleasing unto the LORD, if the FLESH we sin in the flesh and walk CONTRARY and not as a LIVING sacrifice.

THE latter does not change the state of the FIRST but can VEX the first (LOT)

THE mind WILL surrender more and more to the SPIRIT if it is RENEWED by the study of the WORD which feeds the SPIRIT and cause SPIRITUAL GROWTH, MATURITY and INCREASED faithfulness.

HOW is it that you do not understand this.......this is what the bible teaches

I just wanted to make sure I completely understodd you belief, we speak back and forth and I just want to be sure Im understanding you. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Do you not know that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the unrighteous shall not inherit the reign of Yah[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? Do not be deceived. Neither those who whore, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor greedy of gain, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the reign of Yah.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:26-31, “For [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a s[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]acrifice[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Yah underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” And again, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall judge His people. It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Father.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Master! Master! Will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Master! Master! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]practice[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] iniquity[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]."[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

it saddens me when I meet a man who doesn't want to serve Christ.
You can keep serving sin, but the outcome is rather bleak.

Now, if you want to really serve, I will get you in touch with some people who will sign you up for some intense witnessing, in the end of the line of the nearest SuperMax prison HOLE (Security Housing Unit). You will have have to wear a Stab Proof Vest at all times, no matter how hot you get. You will have treat all Prison Officers with total respect, as your superiors, and their work comes first while you patiently wait. You will have go by all the Institutions Rules, and report any inmate trying influence you into violating any rule for any reason. You will act as PART OF STAFF at all times. The LORD will expect you to treat all inmates equally showing Christ-like LOVE for all of them, while trying to witness equally fervantly to every one of them, no matter how bad they are.

That includes inmates who refuse to wear clothes and smear their own feces all over their bodies, matting it in their beard and hair, just to be as SUPER OFFENSIVE TO STAFF AS THEY CAN BE.

ALSO inmates who have murdered their cellmates, and I know of one that beheaded his cellmate, then asked an Officer, "Could you check on my cellmate, he don't look too good."

ALSO inmates who have habitually GASED Staff (they don't flush the toilet, stirring it up, making large cone shaped cup out of paper, then throwing the contents of the toilet on the first staff member to walk by).

ALSO inmates who are hard-core Satanists, and every other ism and skism you can think of.

ALSO inmates who have physically assualted staff trying to kill them.

ALSO inmates who make blow gun darts out of Daily Bread staples, dipping the tip of the dart in their own feces, before trying to hit a STAFF member in the eye with it.

ALSO inmates who are serial rapists, who want to brag about the details when a Volunteer Chaplain stops to talk to them.

ALSO several other FAR GROSSER things that I will not even mention here out of respect for the ladies here.

Serving the LORD is MUCH MORE THAN your play acting.


Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP] for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
[SUP]43 [/SUP] I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
[SUP]45 [/SUP] Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


And ladies I do apologize for the above, but you have to be blunt with some people because they do not know first thing about really Serving the LORD, because they are too busy Serving SELF.

How about it PJW, are you ready to really start Serving the LORD?

 

[PJW]

"If" we sound foolish by what if-ing then we probably are.

The poster I was replying to had neglected to include the word "if" in his assumptions about 1 John 1.
One word can change an entire essay.

 

[PJW]

You judge another brother by saying that you supply of living in accordance to God and if they don’t agree with you,
then you say “You are free to continue serving sin”
Then you say “I forgive you for your aspersions and that sin was covered by my love for you”
O dear o dear o dear.
Judged?
He judged himself.

I suppose I could say the same to you when you told me that God would not listen to me unless I stopped sinning

I supplied the scriptures you disagree with.

Ok my brother you made me feel like a piece of crap today because I admit that I do sin and when I come before God he won’t listen to me becuase I am serving sin. I asked you that question and I can’t see a response to that. But I forgive you because my sin is covered by my love for you even though you place a heavy burden on people, just like the Pharisees”

I would hope that feeling like crap will impel you to a real repentance from sin.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-23)
Iniquity is a synonym for sin.[/FONT]

Get off your rocking horse, get your head out of your backside and walk with people who struggle and help them rather than condemning them.

Would you have said that to Jesus after He called the Pharisees liars, children of the devil, and hypocrites?

Please forgiven my aspersions.
To be honest you don’t care if you don’t.
But you have upset me and I am sure many others here who acknowledge they sin and come before Jesus but according to you he isn’t listening.
I will stop here before I go beyond.

You are right to acknowledge your sins, so why not go the next step and quit them?
That is what a real repentance from sin entails.

 

[PJW]

Obedince to God is not a corrupt belief.
But obedience to God is hard and it’s a walk.

I know it is hard.
Temptations don't stop when you turn to God in submission.
The devil works even harder on those who are in the ranks of God's army.

Maybe not for those who consider themselves sinless and no longer committ sin.
The type who look down on others and condemn them to hell.
Similar to the religious sect that Jesus came against.

If you discerned that I am looking down on you, you are mistaken.
Were I looking down on you, I would not be a Christian, and in that event wouldn't care if you sank or swam.
I care about every man on earth, but am limited to only a few methods of disseminating the word/escape from condemnation.
This is the mode available to me to let others know they don't have to keep on sinning.
If stupid me can resist temptation, so can everybody else...thanks be to God.

The same Jesus who died and rose again to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit would come to be our helper.
HELPER, to tell us because of faith in Jesus we are saved and also to remind us that when we get it wrong Jesus is now in heaven as our advocate.

Can't you see that "helper" in action now?
Have faith in this..."[FONT=&quot]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
And have faith in this..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Submit yourselves [/FONT]therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)
God has the power to keep you free from sin.

 

[PJW]

Is it possible in your mind that a believer can sin yet is not a servsnt of sin?

No, it isn't.
Jesus said..."[FONT=&quot]Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
Serving anything but God is idolatry.

[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

what is sin?

what does it mean to be dead to sin?

Sin, singular is the nature we are born into. Sins are what we do as a result of this.

Dead to sin is the result of placing faith in the gospel, good news of the Cross of Jesus. A new heart, new nature is the result of the resurrection.

Freed from sin.

 

[PJW]

Or sin and just not realize it was sin, because he has not studied enough about what all GOD considers sin?

According to James, sin requires a temptation. (James 1:14-15)
It requires lust and enticement.
No sin is accidental after going through so many stages.

As for lust, Paul writes..."[FONT=&quot]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
In those that are Christ's, the lusts are as dead as the old affections and flesh...thanks be to God.
We have been reborn as new creatures.[/FONT]

 

[TruthTalk]

]"[/U]Ok my brother you made me feel like a piece of crap today", because I admit that I do sin and when I come before God he won’t listen to me becuase I am serving sin. I asked you that question and I can’t see a response to that. But I forgive you because my sin is covered by my love for you even though you place a heavy burden on people, just like the Pharisees”

Get off your rocking horse, get your head out of your backside and walk with people who struggle and help them rather than condemning them.

Please forgiven my aspersions.

But you have upset me and I am sure many others here who acknowledge they sin and come before Jesus but according to you he isn’t listening.

I will stop here before I go beyond.

Hi BillG, the person you are referring to in this post is a "sinless perfectionist",
"a false teacher.", Walk away.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, The OT seems to be the instruction, and the NT seems to be examples of the instruction put into practice. So one would have difficulty understanding the New Testament unless they knew of the instruction that they followed.

You have a great day.

Well, that wasn't the point I was making about the OT at all. They searched the OT to see the revealing of Messiah who was to come.

Salvation-Hebrew is Yeshu. His name. That kind of thing. Hebrew is poetic. Paints pictures with symbolism.

 

[stonesoffire]

Emotionally loaded language

Once you say to hold a certain position is to be evil, doomed to hell, you are obviously
going to stay on one side of the argument.

It gets worse when only one interpretation of a verse can be taken as acceptable.

Jesus was very clear. Listen to Him, learn from Him and revelation will come to you.
It is not a risk, or a dangerous path to follow. You are not going to fall into some
strange ideas, He will be faithful to you.

If you feel someone is twisting a verse, it could be that your interpretation is twisted,
and they are explaining what is meant. The fact that different perspectives create different
outcomes is why one has to be careful. And there is a lot at stake if you start closing down
ones mind. It is why we can take comfort in Jesus declaring He is the truth.

who are you talking to?

 

[PJW]

Our past sin's have been cleansed. But we have our part, "If we continue to walk "in the light". But if you are preaching that we don't still have sinful flesh to over come, then we are in disagreement. We have our "Cross" to bear until the end. Jesus cleanses us of repentant sin, He doesn't eliminate our sinful flesh until the end.

The devil will continue to tempt us with the things that once ensnared us, but in Christ we have the power to overcome all temptation.
We can continue to walk in the light, as nothing can remove us from our Father's hand.

1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Yes, changed from a walker to a floater...LOL.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Don't confuse "flesh" with "skin"
Jesus had skin and never sinned.
He, in us, has the same power...thanks be to God.

Rom. 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin (death)which is in my members.

Answered to in Romans 8:2..." [FONT=&quot]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
[/FONT]Why would Paul be subject to something God has freed him from?

Sin is always present in this life, we just don't let it rule our actions, works, fruits, thoughts.

My "flesh" is His skin now, and has no sin in it.
Sin is present on the earth, but we are not part of this world anymore.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]If ye were of the [/FONT]world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19)