Not By Works

[loveme1]

Yeh I know.

”Hey guv I can look after your car whilst your not here for a price, if I Not I’m sure I’ll get a good price for your wheels”

Anfield area... the cheek of it.. glad I retired from the 12th man role many moons ago...

 

[BillG]

That is what the Lord gave Stones.. I think the Lord knows best how to talk to Believers.. it shows how much He cares to give us the Truth and consequence.. GOD always gives us it straight.. Considering the danger we should take heed.

Yes the Lord knows how best to talk to his children.
He also knows what’s best for his children and what, How and when to deal with them.

Its a good job he knows what he is doing and we have trust in him.

Truth known if left to my own devices goodness knows what would happen.

He is greater than it all.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz1kcP64hAg[/video]

 

[BillG]

Anfield area... the cheek of it.. glad I retired from the 12th man role many moons ago...

Where I was born they didn’t even have to ask you.
You just opened your wallet and gave them everything in it.

 

[stonesoffire]

That is what the Lord gave Stones.. I think the Lord knows best how to talk to Believers.. it shows how much He cares to give us the Truth and consequence.. GOD always gives us it straight.. Considering the danger we should take heed.

Well, I won't argue with anyone who says they are hearing from the Lord.

Personally, though, warnings only put fear on me because the overcoming of a problem was interpreted in my thinking as through me. Not from the Lord. This is when I was led to faith in the Word, and His power to deliver.

But, hey! We aren't all the same nor do we have the same life experiences.

Today, warnings do not throw me since I've learned the balance of situations. Another thing I learned is that in counseling another, never give counsel out of ones own experiences unless it is useful. I had to learn to put my opinions aside as to an answer to a problem.

But, the Word (Jesus) does have the right answer for us all.

peace..

 

[PHart]

Saved unto good works.. so Believers are to follow their Lord each and every day.. whom else would they follow after being saved by their Good Shepherd.. but there is no boast.. ever... that we agree on... only Love and Gratitude..

They only agree with you on this in words. They say the believer will do good works but then turn right around and chew you to pieces when you say it and they immediately go into a defense of 'Christians' who do not do good works. It's a joke. The church is a joke.

 

[dcontroversal]

They only agree with you on this in words. They say the believer will do good works but then turn right around and chew you to pieces when you say it. It's a joke. The church is a joke.

The bolded is hilarious coming from one who uses a shot dead comedian for an avatar....and especially in light of your unsealed lasagna cracker jack theology.......the fact that you regularly misrepresent the truth of what we all say proves unequivocally who really leads you........The Spirit of God would not lead one to misrepresent the truth as much as you do....nor would it lead one to compare the sealing of the spirit unto a bowl of left over lasagna......such a degrading, sinful comparison that lacks any credible faith.

 

[PHart]

The bolded is hilarious coming from one who uses a shot dead comedian for an avatar....and especially in light of your unsealed lasagna cracker jack theology.......the fact that you regularly misrepresent the truth of what we all say proves unequivocally who really leads you........The Spirit of God would not lead one to misrepresent the truth as much as you do....nor would it lead one to compare the sealing of the spirit unto a bowl of left over lasagna......such a degrading, sinful comparison that lacks any credible faith.

Like I said:

"...then turn right around and chew you to pieces..."

 

[dcontroversal]

Like I said:

"...then turn right around and chew you to pieces..."

You said nothing of value...like normal.....and interjected yourself into a decent comment by another member and brought the value of that comment down to your lower level.....you should come up to a higher level and actually trust Jesus by saving faith.

 

[PHart]

You said nothing of value...like normal.....and interjected yourself into a decent comment by another member and brought the value of that comment down to your lower level.....you should come up to a higher level and actually trust Jesus by saving faith.

Yes, yes, we know.......continuing to trust in Jesus is not saving faith.

Like I say, the church is a joke. A literal joke.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, yes, we know.......continuing to trust in Jesus is not saving faith.

Like I say, the church is a joke. A literal joke.

Your version does not quite match scripture....and maybe that is your problem....you cannot even understand that there are CHURCHES....as in plural and maybe you should find a CHURCH that does not teach your half baked left over lasagna cracker jack I keep myself saved dogma.....it will not be a joke when you answer for devaluing the Holy Spirit and HIS sealing before God

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, yes, we know.......continuing to trust in Jesus is not saving faith.

Like I say, the church is a joke. A literal joke.

You aren't wrong that we continue to trust, but it's not in our work, but His power working through us.

Reading the last chapter of Phillipians we see this clearly.

Otherwise, we would have something to boast of in our self. But, we don't. Rewards will show just how much we trusted. but, not condemnation for it is not ascribed to us anymore not being under restraint of law, but of the power of Gods grace.

Agree?

 

[PHart]

...you cannot even understand that there are CHURCHES....as in plural...

I am fully aware that there is the 'church of the world' and the real church.

The church of the world is all about the grace of God in the forgiveness of sin, but knows nothing about, and/or resists the grace of God in the deliverance from sin. The deliverance from sin in the church of the world is a works gospel to them.

 

[PHart]

You aren't wrong that we continue to trust, but it's not in our work, but His power working through us.

Reading the last chapter of Phillipians we see this clearly.

Otherwise, we would have something to boast of in our self. But, we don't. Rewards will show just how much we trusted. but, not condemnation for it is not ascribed to us anymore not being under restraint of law, but of the power of Gods grace.

Agree?

I know you are terribly influenced by Calvinistic thought along with so many others in the church, but last time I checked 'believing' was not a work of the works gospel. If you can post the scripture that says it is then I will agree with you. But you know there is no such scripture.

Just because the alternate doctrine to Calvinistic thought is we do the believing, by our own choice (through the power of God's faith), that doesn't make believing a work of the works gospel. But by all means, if you are sure the Bible says that, post the passage.

The reason we can not boast in the trusting that God asks us to do in order to be saved is because he provides the faith to do that trusting/believing. Without him our believing can not happen. But that hardly means we don't do the believing by reason of if we did we would be trying to earn our own salvation. That's absurd. Paul never said believing was a work of the works gospel.

It's interesting how in your belief system believing in regard to rewards is indeed us doing the believing, but in regard to justification/salvation it's God doing the believing for us. What a horribly misguided doctrine.

 

[VCO]

The only thing that will keep a person saved is their present believing. It is through our believing that we first received the promise, and it is through that same unceasing believing that we are kept to the very end.

The promise is for those who presently believe, not for those who never believed, or those who stop believing and fall away back to the world. Even traditional Calvinism, as misguided as it is, teaches that if you don't believe to the very end as evidenced by a lifestyle of obedience you are not saved.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS. You and others from your side of the fence want to believe that what you just stated as our beliefs, was stated correctly. Here is where you always go wrong, you either accuse us of believing SALVATION by GRACE does not produce loving obedience; OR YOU DO AS YOU HAVE JUST DONE, claiming we believe that SALVATION comes after an ongoing lifestyle of obedience. BOTH ARE TOTALLY WRONG.

I am not Calvinist, but I believe in 3 of the 5 points of CALVINISM, thus the Calvinists reject me and so do the Armenians. I am just a plain old non-denominational Christian, and NONE of those other labels stick to me.

This is what we believe, SO pay attention so that you will quote us correctly next time.

We believe SALVATION HAPPENS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY THE VERY MOMENT WE GENUINELY BELIEVE TO THE POINT OF RECEIVING JESUS CHRIST AS LORD, MEANING MASTER.

We believe that genuine SALVATION, will produce changes in our spiritual being that we call Born Again, namely that:

1. The Holy Spirit enters our heart birthing our dead human spirit into eternal life, John 3:3-7. That eternally alive human spirit is in tune with the Will of GOD and wants to Please Him as an act of LOVE for HIM, which manifests itself in the willing, loving Surrender to HIM as Lord, meaning Master. That SALVATION, if it is GENUINE, and not just head knowledge, is Eternal and can NEVER BE LOST, or Forfeited.

2. Simultaneously the Holy Spirit pours GOD's Love directly into our heart (human spirit), Rom. 5:5; thus out of GOD's LOVE being present in our heart (human spirit); we will always want to show our love for HIM by walking in obedience.

3. The Holy Spirit produces in our human spirit, a hunger to understand God's Word, and by feeding on HIS WORD, the Holy Spirit will gradually Mature our eternally alive human spirit, thus in our Christian Walk, as the human spirit becomes dominant over the will of the Flesh, we will Walk more and more like Christ.

We also believe, that those who appear to have lost their Salvation NEVER HAD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE TO LOSE. They never truly were Born Again, thus they NEVER KNEW HIM, meaning their human spirit was NEVER ETERNALLY ALIVE AND INTIMATELY CONNECTED TO JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. They only had head knowledge about HIM, and not an intimate spiritual relationship with JESUS CHRIST.


1 John 2:19 (CSBBible)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


To SUM IT UP, because we WERE genuinely born again SAVED ETERNALLY,
WE WILL CONTINUOUSLY THROUGHOUT OUR LIVES, STRIVE TO OBEY HIM AS A WAY TO SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM.

Are we perfect at it? NO, but thankfully our LORD provided for that flaw in our human nature.

1 John 1:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess {continually as a lifestyle} our sins,
He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Even the desire to confess each new sin we discover, is proof the Holy Spirit is in us, Maturing our born again human spirit.

 

[PHart]

We also believe, that those who appear to have lost their Salvation NEVER HAD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE TO LOSE. They never truly were Born Again, thus they NEVER KNEW HIM, meaning their human spirit was NEVER ETERNALLY ALIVE AND INTIMATELY CONNECTED TO JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.

Then you agree with me that you must believe to the very end to be saved. Now explain it to dcon.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am fully aware that there is the 'church of the world' and the real church.

The church of the world is all about the grace of God in the forgiveness of sin, but knows nothing about, and/or resists the grace of God in the deliverance from sin. The deliverance from sin in the church of the world is a works gospel to them.

More proof of your blindness...and or ignorance.....well....in your case probably both.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Then you agree with me that you must believe to the very end to be saved. Now explain it to dcon.

There is no need to explain your cracker jack I keep myself saved lie....

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

Then you agree with me that you must believe to the very end to be saved. Now explain it to dcon.

YOU STILL DO NOT GET IT.

IF WE ARE TRULY BORN AGAIN,


WE WILL CONTINUALLY STRIVE TO OBEY AS AN ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM.

NOT "MUST",

NOT "MUST",

NOT "MUST"!

"MUST", IS A LIE!



"WILL", AS A RESULT OF HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT CHANGED OUR HUMAN SPIRIT.

THE BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE DEAD HUMAN SPIRIT WE WERE BORN WITH. THE DIFFERENCE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US, AND HOW HE CHANGES OUR HUMAN SPIRIT.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

If the answer is still NO, there is only one reason, and that is because you are not born again yet.


1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

NOT "MUST"!

"MUST", IS A LIE!

 

[PHart]

YOU STILL DO NOT GET IT.

IF WE ARE TRULY BORN AGAIN,


WE WILL CONTINUALLY STRIVE TO OBEY AS AN ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM.

NOT "MUST",

NOT "MUST",

NOT "MUST"!

"MUST", IS A LIE!



"WILL", AS A RESULT OF HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT CHANGED OUR HUMAN SPIRIT.

THE BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE DEAD HUMAN SPIRIT WE WERE BORN WITH. THE DIFFERENCE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US, AND HOW HE CHANGES OUR HUMAN SPIRIT.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

If the answer is still NO, there is only one reason, and that is because you are not born again yet.


1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

NOT "MUST"!

"MUST", IS A LIE!

“Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” 2 Timothy 2:19 NIV

But anyway, both of us agree that the believer must continue to believe or else they are not born again. You believe they will continue to believe because they are born again and are incapable of not believing, while I believe they continue to believe if they choose to continue to believe and as a result of that continued believing remain born again. So there is no difference of belief between us in regard to the fundamental necessity for the believer to believe to the very end or else they are not saved.

It's clear that we both agree that born again people must continue to believe: You believe they must continue to believe because they are born again and God designed them beforehand to be believers and can not alter that predetermined outcome. While I believe they must continue to believe as a matter of their choice to continue to believe, through God's gracious gift of faith, of course, not through any ability of their own to be able to trust in the gospel. Nobody can trust in the gospel without first having God's power of 'knowing' that the gospel really is true.