Grace alone or grace plus works?

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Is salvation by Grace alone?

  • Salvation Is by Grace alone through faith.

    Votes: 42 87.5%
  • Salvation Is by Grace through faith plus works

    Votes: 6 12.5%

  • Total voters
    48
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I thought it was sort of witty.



You really need to slow down and relax.
I am relaxed. I had a great day with my wife, Saw a great movie, And I just got done watching the Cavs win, I am having a great night.

You however, need to slow down and learn how to read. And find out what Grace means.

ASnyone who thinks Adam needed grace before he sinned should not be trying to teach people or preach to people./ he needs to get in the word and study,
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Well the original proper name is "ass" but in modern times jack ass is used more commonly for donkeys.
too late to edit,I meant this post for an educational purpose,oh well...
 
D

Depleted

Guest
The same GOD that spoke In the Old covenant Is the same GOD that spoke the New covenant and since GOD does not change should we try to keep the law and be under grace?

Some believe that salvation Is by Grace through faith alone but some believe That salvation Is by Grace by Grace through faith plus works.where do you stand on this Issue?
Salvation is by Christ alone.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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The word "through" in grace through faith is the plus in the grace plus works.

If faith is needed then grace is not enough.
GOD provides the grace and the faith but you have to choose to believe the gospel.

It’s In every human being to know that their Is a GOD.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Without obedience a man has nothing to show. The verse is about showing your faith to others not God. God already knows your faith and your obedience to it.
Yes,obedience to faith meaning believe the gospel and deep down Inside everyone knows there Is a GOD.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,087
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we are saved BY GOD. full stop!

for the truly saved, works will follow, because GOD is faithful.

i cannot understand why this is so hard to grasp. lol

Ephesians 2


8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


We do all spend much time on something every Believer should be able to witness of..

By GOD’s Grace through Faith unto good works that the True Vine produces through the undeserving Branch that is grafted in on the Lord’s merit..

so we should all be counting ourselves as unworthy servants.. the Lord Himself knocks us of our perch if ever we humble not ourselves..
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
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"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). The evidence and substance of what we believe is demonstrated by faith, our works are the substance and evidence of our faith.. I'm not so sure you can separate faith and works, one is dead without the other. Works without faith is in vain, and faith without works is a hypocrite... jmo
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,087
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The Gospel in reverse.

Bible says repentance comes first. You say repentance comes after.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

To Repent would be to read the Words of the Lord and realise He is describing you and then you Repent Which is a remorseful change.. in Revelation.. because the message is to Believers..

This gave me thought the other day:

2 Timothy 2

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;




 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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You're responsible for having not believed the Gospel.
A. It is impossible to believe the Gospel unless God causes you to believe.

B. I am responsible for not believing the Gospel.

C. Therefore I am responsible for not being able to do the impossible.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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faith without obedience is no faith at all;

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by faith."

faith” is word #H530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness

faith” #H530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.


Hebrews 3:3:18-19, “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Counterfiet faith is claim faith and not doing;

Mat 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14)* prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
Sadly we see dimly, "My influence is sufiscent for you, for my strengt is made perfeft in weakness." So you have God's influence sufiscient. Jesus Said "I can do nothing of Miself except what i see the Father doing." jesus could not help the Father of Himself and only did the work of God. We should follow Jesus to see what the Father is doing. God told me: I don't need your help.
In case you misunderstood Faith works by Love: That would be the One who dosent need my help. And wy do you think we must be identified in the death of Christ, so that it's no longer I that lives but Christ.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
I think works are needed.

Repentance is a work too. And you cant be saved without a repentance.

I do not think that some measurement of works is needed to be saved. But some change truly is needed.
The renewal of all things is mentioned as "By God's Influence through Faith." Repentance is also God's Influence as well, and is why Jesus was immersed with the baptism of repentance: for us, to influence us to repent. He completed the work, as our life can't possibly be about us, "Christ in you." When Jesus pleaded with the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane "Father if it be possible," It was not possible for us to come back to Life by works. There is much hidden meaning in the word of God, "Now we know in part," "And if any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he should." If we think we know we stop learning. When Jesus died, the old covenant under the Law was cancelled as well, and it's the only way it could be cancelled, by the death of the person who made the covenant. Also we have all died with God "It's appointed to man once to die and then comes the judgment," this is why "Judgment must begin at the house of God." We are closer to the Resurrection than unbelievers. We all live a dream until we wake up from our life of desire, to be found in Him in Hope of Resurrection. We have died with Christ, has a different meaning for God and man: For God it end a life for ourselves, "A dead man is free from sin," but separated from His Love. In His death our sins are forgiven, "All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man." There is no Resurrection without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what we need, "Living Water," without Him we are nothing. "If I understand all mysteries and have not Love I am nothing." By this we know that the mind of the flesh: understanding that we cant lean on, was made from nothing, and if you eat it you'll die. The fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and evil: the sin nature, commonly called ego: living for ourselves. So can a dead man help God? with dead works? Now that we have the Holy Spirit we work out our renewal empowered by His Spirit, "Let no man glory in man, all things are your." Where some have trouble, "We are labourers together with God," "Our Life is hid with Christ in God." Even we have hidden meaning here, hidden so we don't glory in ourselves. It's easier to solve the mystery of God if we remain hidden in Christ than stumbling along, but we all stumble, "That I should not think more highly of myself than I should." And "Solving mysteries and have not Love, I am nothing."
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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A. It is impossible to believe the Gospel unless God causes you to believe.

B. I am responsible for not believing the Gospel.

C. Therefore I am responsible for not being able to do the impossible.
It is impossible not to sin.

I am responsible to not sin.

Therefore I am asked to do the impossible??
 
Dec 28, 2016
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A. It is impossible to believe the Gospel unless God causes you to believe.
Yes, God grants faith; Romans 12:3, and yet not all have faith; 2 Thessalonians 3:2. That's the facts, Jack.

B. I am responsible for not believing the Gospel.
An unbeliever is already on his or her way to hell prior to ever hearing the Gospel, and, some have never heard the Gospel. That being said, you need to hear the Gospel, and it isn't of works. Mankind is held responsible for their sins, and for not repenting of their sins. God is just in commanding all to do this, even if his call is only effectual to his chosen.

But I digress, I don't see God as having to fit into my idea of fairness, nor do I think Wholly Other to be such a God that he must succumb to my whims and checklist of God criteria to be God. This isn't idolatry or Burger King, we're talking about an eternal being who is way above our thoughts. He is who he has revealed himself to be, he's actually God.

C. Therefore I am responsible for not being able to do the impossible.
See, there you go. The flesh profits nothing concerning salvation; John 6:63. You want it to, you believe it does but it doesn't. You see salvation and saving yourself as something in your hands, and if not, well really, since not, you deem God as unfair; Romans 9:20.

You see the Gospel as something you can do, which is why you arrive in the end at a works gospel.

Furthermore, all persons are responsible for their sins, regardless of believing the Gospel and being converted, and are already under condemnation; John 3:17. God, being Sovereign has mercy upon whom he wills to have mercy; Romans 9:14-18, none can come to Christ unless granted by the Father; John 6:44.

That's the Gospel, and frankly, it ought to scare the hell out of people, literally, when they see all it's glorious truths especially when they see the salvation of their souls are solely in God's hands. All his elect will run to him for mercy and grace, all the lost will continue to hate him for eternity.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
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Well this IS turning into the Not By Works thread, mark II. Pity.