GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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beta said:
I don't think we should add to our own problems things we can not know or change...but let every man work out his own salvation in fear and trembling.
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what about the next verse?

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

how about that?
 
rstrats said:
valiant,
re: "Jesus made crystal clear that He did not consider the 4th command important enough to mention to the rich young ruler (Matt 19.16-19)."


Studyman,
re: "He didn’t mention the first and greatest commandment to the rich man either."


And to be more specific, He didn't mention the first three commandments to the rich young ruler either. So to be consistent, valiant must be saying that the Messiah also didn't
consider the first three commandments important enough to mention.​
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you're trying to be clever. But the first three commandments were between a man and his God. The last seven were to do with outward behaviour. And all were mentioned except the Sabbath injunction.

LOL if it had been you it wold have been mentioned first,
 
beta said:
I don't think we should add to our own problems things we can not know or change...but let every man work out his own salvation in fear and trembling.
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BECAUSE God is at work in you to will and do of His good pleasure (Phil 2.12-13)
 
beta said:
No need for a thread...it's very simple - have fellowship with the Father and the Son !!! Give them your full attention in everything and be corrected in what to do and not to do ! Read His Word !
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Actually the main purpose of the Sabbath was to cease from work. That is what is enjoined. It was of great benefit to slaves.
 
beta said:
In the OT there was only 'law....but in the NT Yashua/Jesus introduced 'Love and Grace as a 'better way to teach man obedience. The Commandments/God's law still stand...they are just taught with more compassion and patience to people who are slow to hear ! but God heals from any kind of sickness so that we CAN hear again if we are willing to obey His Word.
We see that Jesus 'instructed the blind, the lame and any who had maladies...but if they did not obey they would not be cured....it is the same now...walk with Jesus 24/7 and you will become whole again !...of course that means keeping the Sabbath as HE did...even though not 'commanded'. !If there is true Love between two do there have to be 'commands/orders...no ! you do from the heart what God wants ....and our Savior knows best ! If one can't see or hear the best way is to be 'led...not told or commanded !!! Let Yashua/Jesus be your 'Leader !
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Funny then that the early church met on the 1st day of the week ? {Acts 20.7)
 
Snoozy said:
what about the next verse?

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

how about that?
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Amen! Believers are to "work out" their salvation (in regards to ongoing sanctification) and not work "for" their salvation (in regards to salvation by works).
 
valiant,
re: "Funny then that the early church met on the 1st day of the week ? {Acts 20.7) "


Actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.


The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a worship service or day of rest. And it couldn't have been in recognition of the resurrection because at that time they didn't even believe that the resurrection had taken place.


The Acts reference has them together very likely because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The "breaking of bread" could simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread", does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.

But even if the "breaking of bread mentioned" always did refer to the Lord’s Supper, it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
 
rstrats said:
valiant,
re: "Funny then that the early church met on the 1st day of the week ? {Acts 20.7) "

Actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.

The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a worship service or day of rest. And it couldn't have been in recognition of the resurrection because at that time they didn't even believe that the resurrection had taken place.

The Acts reference has them together very likely because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The "breaking of bread" could simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread", does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.

But even if the "breaking of bread mentioned" always did refer to the Lord’s Supper, it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
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Thanks for sharing rstrats,

It is true the disciples met on any day of the week for different reasons. I have the same understanding as you for your post above. I really do not understand how anyone can use those verses to suggest that God's 4th commandment has been changed from the 7th day of the week to Sunday. There is two key things to consider. (1) God's 4th commandment is not even mentioned in the chapters with no mention of the commandment being changed or abolished in any way and (2) No new commandment to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

For me our only safe bet is to BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORD of GOD.....

May God continue to Bless you as you seek Him through His Word..........
 
tooldtocare said:
How did the human race get salvation before Jesus walked this earth?
(:-
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Hi tooldtocare, welcome here.

Good question. The answer is the same way that we have salvation today and that is by FAITH in God's WORD and following God. Please read Hebrews Chapter 11.

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word....
 
rstrats said:
valiant,
re: "Funny then that the early church met on the 1st day of the week ? {Acts 20.7) "
Click to expand...


Actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.


The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a worship service or day of rest. And it couldn't have been in recognition of the resurrection because at that time they didn't even believe that the resurrection had taken place.


The Acts reference has them together very likely because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The "breaking of bread" could simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread", does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.

But even if the "breaking of bread mentioned" always did refer to the Lord’s Supper, it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
Click to expand...

But I agree with Acts 2.46. Every day is holy to the Lord. I am not arguing for Sunday. I am showing that people met for worship on a Sunday in the early church which you fellows claim they did not.
 
valiant,
re: "...the first three commandments were between a man and his God."

Actually, so is the 4th. The Lord said that it is His Sabbath, a day that He has blessed and sanctified , and He expects it to be kept holy.




re: "The last seven were to do with outward behaviour."

If the commandments "you shall not murder", "you shall not commit adultry", "you shall not steal", "you shall not bear false witness", "you shall not covet" are to do with outward behavior why don't the commandments "you shall have no other gods before me", "you shall not make any carved image", "you shall not bow down to them nor serve them", and "you shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain" also have to do with outward behavior?
 
valiant,
re: "I am not arguing for Sunday. I am showing that people met for worship on a Sunday in the early church which you fellows claim they did not.


We're not claiming that. We're merely pointing out that scripture is silent with regard to anyone ever resting and/or worshiping on the first day of the week, much less doing it on a continuing basis.
 
It is interesting and significant that the first day is mentioned when Christians met. it's not like the other days that christians met. Why would the 'first day' be specifically mentioned why not the 2nd day or the 3rd day etc etc... MMMmmm

And as the saying goes 'the rest is History' ;)

Oh thats right we do have early (christian) historical accounts aswell :)
 
valiant said:
But I agree with Acts 2.46. Every day is holy to the Lord. I am not arguing for Sunday. I am showing that people met for worship on a Sunday in the early church which you fellows claim they did not.
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Valiant that is not true at all. If EVERYDAY was a holy day it would say so in God's Word and it does not. If every day was a Holy day then no one would be able to work according to the commandment.
 
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phil36,
re: "Why would the 'first day' be specifically mentioned why not the 2nd day or the 3rd day etc etc... "

I don't know and neither do you. What I do know is that scripture is totaly silent with regard to anyone ever resting and/or worshiping on the first day of the week, much less doing it on a continuing basis.


re: "...we do have early (christian) historical accounts..."

But those accounts are not scripture. We're talking about the practice being mentioned in scripture.
 
rstrats said:
phil36,
re: "Why would the 'first day' be specifically mentioned why not the 2nd day or the 3rd day etc etc... "

I don't know and neither do you. What I do know is that scripture is totaly silent with regard to anyone ever resting and/or worshiping on the first day of the week, much less doing it on a continuing basis.


re: "...we do have early (christian) historical accounts..."

But those accounts are not scripture. We're talking about the practice being mentioned in scripture.
Click to expand...


I guess we have a disagreement then. I think Scripture is clear enough. And regarding the writings of other christians. I am glad we have record of their early writings.. indeed we can see that they also lived according to scripture.. :)

I gave you scripture and the witness of how even the very early Christians believed scripture. All you have given is opinion..
 
phil36,
re: "I gave you scripture..."

And I once again ask you to identify the scripture that says that anyone ever rested or woshiped on the first of the week or that anyone honored the first day of the week because of the resurrection. So far you have not done that.



re: "All you have given is opinion.."

And what opinion would that be?
 
rstrats said:
phil36,
re: "I gave you scripture..."

And I once again I ask you to identify the scripture that says that anyone ever rested or woshiped on the first of the week or that anyone honored the first day of the week because of the resurrection. So far you have not done that.



re: "All you have given is opinion.."

And what opinion would that be?
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And I have answered you..go and read the posts.
 
valiant said:
Actually the main purpose of the Sabbath was to cease from work. That is what is enjoined. It was of great benefit to slaves.
Click to expand...

Hi valiant,
that is one reason but not the purpose of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made on the last day of the creation week as a memorial of creation for all mankind before SIN entered the world (Exodus 20:8; Genesis 2:2; Mark 2:27). God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (Genesis 2:3).

God made the Sabbath a Holy day so that we can spend this specific day and time as a Holy day of rest from our weekly duties and business and other daily work activities to specifically take the time to be with our God in remembrance of that it is God that is the only true God and creator of ALL things in Heaven and Earth.

It is also a SIGN that HIS people follow him and it is the same God of creation that is saving His people from their SINS (Ezekiel 20:12; 20). God's people are those that are spoken of in the book of Revelations that keep ALL of the commandments of God through faith in Jesus (the WORD).....

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
 
Snoozy said:
what about the next verse?

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

how about that?
Click to expand...

It is talking to the BELOVED who OBEY !
 
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