But if you read further on it talks about resurrection and those that have been resurrected where do they reign if they are a child of God and yet how many times does Christ come back ?
why would millennial kingdom not be literal?
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But if you read further on it talks about resurrection and those that have been resurrected where do they reign if they are a child of God and yet how many times does Christ come back ?
Hi carl11,
The 1st resur mentioned in Rev 20 is the resur of Jesus, yes?
And the 2nd resur in Rev 20 is His second coming of salvation, to take possession of the kingdom, yes/no?
It does say in 1 Cor 15:49, that we will bear the image of the heavenly.
Can we return to this planet of sin? And still remain sinless?
A material planet like this one?
Or entirely spiritual?
Or a mix?
Hello Carl11,
If you are referring to the resurrection of Rev.20:4-6, this is the resurrection of the great tribulation saints who are apart of the first resurrection. These are those who will have become believers after the church is gathered and who will have been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus, the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. It is important to understand that the first resurrection is made up of stages:
* Jesus the first fruits (1 Cor.15:20)
* The church at his appearing (John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:51-53)
* The male child/144,000 caught up (Rev.12:5)
* The two witnesses (Rev.11:11-12)
* The great tribulation saints (Rev.20:4-6)
All of the above belong to the first resurrection. Those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years do not belong to the first resurrection, for that will be the resurrection of the unrighteous dead of whom the second death has power over.
This is part of the confusion. When Christ comes for the church, he will descend from heaven and meet the church in the air and will take us back to the Father's house (John 14:1-3). At this time he comes only to gather the church. After the wrath of God has been poured out, the Lord and the church with him, will return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
The gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age are two separate events.
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The kingdom is on planet earth right now, and when we leave, we won't be coming back.
Let go of this material world, live in the Spirit, we are all going sometime anyway, in the air or in the ground.
Is there someone who loves this world so much, that you want to return to this maggot hole? Job 25:6, 42:1-6.
You want to stand/kneel in the presence of Jesus, revealed in glory, sitting on the throne of heaven and earth, pure sinless, all power in heaven and earth, cherubim below Him, countless souls made pure by the blood of Jesus radiating with the Holy Spirit, gaze upon the face of God revealed to the souls of men,......
And you want to come back here? To the abyss of misery and pain? To sin and death, wars and torrents of suffering?
And people believe that it will be like Eden, Eden was a place of sin and death also.
The flesh is passing away, and the lust.
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This world is coming to an end soon, Jesus is coming for the kingdom at the 7th trumpet. Rev 11:15, After Jerusalem falls.
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And this mill kingdom, yes it is real, but it is not future, it has been here since Pentecost.
The blessings are for those in the kingdom, the non-believers never get the blessings of the rod of iron,
Because they have not entered the kingdom.
The gentile non-believing peoples never do get the gospel kingdom blessings, the end of the mill shows that they attack Jerusalem.
The idea that the whole non-believing planet gets the kingdom blessings while cursing God and plotting the demise of Jerusalem is not compatible.
Let go of this material world, live in the Spirit, we are all going sometime anyway, in the air or in the ground.
Is there someone who loves this world so much, that you want to return to this maggot hole? Job 25:6, 42:1-6.
You want to stand/kneel in the presence of Jesus, revealed in glory, sitting on the throne of heaven and earth, pure sinless, all power in heaven and earth, cherubim below Him, countless souls made pure by the blood of Jesus radiating with the Holy Spirit, gaze upon the face of God revealed to the souls of men,......
And you want to come back here? To the abyss of misery and pain? To sin and death, wars and torrents of suffering?
And people believe that it will be like Eden, Eden was a place of sin and death also.
The flesh is passing away, and the lust.
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This world is coming to an end soon, Jesus is coming for the kingdom at the 7th trumpet. Rev 11:15, After Jerusalem falls.
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And this mill kingdom, yes it is real, but it is not future, it has been here since Pentecost.
The blessings are for those in the kingdom, the non-believers never get the blessings of the rod of iron,
Because they have not entered the kingdom.
The gentile non-believing peoples never do get the gospel kingdom blessings, the end of the mill shows that they attack Jerusalem.
The idea that the whole non-believing planet gets the kingdom blessings while cursing God and plotting the demise of Jerusalem is not compatible.
No, the resurrection that is mentioned in Rev. 20 is not talking about Christ but rather the true believers so this is the 1st resurrection. Notice also the language at the end of vrs 6 "they shall be" so in no way can this be talking about Christ. It is also noteworthy to look at Amos 5:18, Is. 2:19, Mt. 24:40 are a couple of examples which shows that when Christ returns it will be a time of Judgement albeit not the final judgement.
The 2nd resurrection is the final judgment time that coincides with that of Jn. 5:29, Dan. 12:2 which is also described as second death.
One could assume that by the language when it talks about the new heavens and earth it would be talking about a physical earth. But then the question arises why a physical earth with spiritual people. The Bible doesn't have much to say about this just as the fact we only have a glimpse of what heaven will be like as described In the book of Revelation.
No, the resurrection in revelation is referring to that of the true believers / the church. Once they have been raptured / taken away once Christ comes for them there is no more salvation for anybody that is to say no one can or will become saved once Christ has come for his people, after that it is a time of Judgement.
No it's not confusing when God say's he comes back once more and that time will be a time of Judgment Hag. 2:6, Heb. 12:26, Amos 5:18, Zeph. 1:14-18; he will not come back twice. But as for the true believes it is not a time of Judgment for them.
Paul said 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24, that there are only 2 resurrections,
Jesus the first fruits,
And those at His coming.
Then it is the end.
How can there be 3 resurrections?
The problem with your claim is that, the resurrection in Rev.20:4-6 takes place after the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, which is preceded by the wrath of God which scripture states that we as believers are not appointed to suffer. Therefore, the resurrection of the church was in view in Rev.20:4-6, it would take us through all of God's wrath.
You need to understand that in between right now and the time that the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, God's wrath is going to be poured out decimating the majority of the earths population and dismantling all human government. The gathering off the church must take place prior to the beginning of God's wrath, which is initiated at the opening of the first seal, ergo, we must be removed prior to the first seal being opened.
Salvation is still available during the time of God's wrath, which is where the great tribulation saints of Rev.7:9-17 come from. As the elder tells John, "these are those who come out of great tribulation."
As I said and as scripture states, the Lord is going to meet the church in the air. He is not returning to the earth at that time, but as the scripture states he will meet us in the air and then according to John 14:1-3 he will take us back to the Father's house.
Stop confusing the gathering of the church with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as they are two separate events. All you are doing is listening to and adopting the same false teachings that have been introduced. Below is the order of events:
* The gathering of the church
* The revealing of the antichrist
* The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments
* The Lord returns to the earth and the church and his angels with him to end the age
* Thousand year reign of Christ
In order to explain the spiritual, we have to be able to relate to the spiritual, in ways that we can understand.
Like living water, the Holy Spirit. It's not literal water, but everyone in a hot place like Israel would know the value of water, it would mean life or death.
The hand of God, the power of God, His influence. Does God use literal hands?
But we can relate to water, or hands.
That is why the lines are blurred sometimes, between the literal and symbolic.
There is only 2 general resurrections but all through time there has been various resurrections. ie..Jarius daughter, Lazarus..etc
The second and final resurrection Is the last day (singular) .
The last days began when the veil was rent.
The wrath of God is being reveled. The ideology of the anti-christ is known .
Dispensationalism needs to add time to the last day
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
In the four verses above God is giving us the understanding that not only will there be a resurrection, but also it will be on the last day (singular) .Therefore we want to study those verses carefully. The last day Is not a long period of time. The thousand years represents a long unknown period of time. The New Testament period this is literally over two thousand years
Day singular
Days plural
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
The last day is judgment day.
All believers Old and New Testament will be resurrected on the last day
This is important because some teach the resurrection of believers can take place at various times separated by a time period as long as a thousand years. There is one resurrection of all who have been saved whether they lived a thousand years before Christ or whether they lived long after Christ went to the cross .
In the twinkling of the eye he will come as a thief in the night all will be given their new incorruptible bodies.The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind .
All believers Old and New Testament will be resurrected on the last day
This is important because some teach the resurrection of believers can take place at various times separated by a time period as long as a thousand years. There is one resurrection of all who have been saved whether they lived a thousand years before Christ or whether they lived long after Christ went to the cross .
In the twinkling of the eye he will come as a thief in the night all will be given their new incorruptible bodies.The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind .
how do premillennials deal with the verse in john saying that the resurrection happens on the last day? of the righteous u see....... not 1000 years before it
"The last day" is a metaphor for a period of time which stretches beyond 1,000 years. Since it includes both the resurrection of the just and the unjust, it cannot be one literal day (as some imagine).
what about that literal hermeneutic u see??????? this is what i mean. its only literal until it disagrees with the premillennial view then its metaphor or symbolic or means something else......... u see.
doesnt the bible teach one resurrection of wicked and righteous u see??????
daniel 12:2 & john 5:28-29 & acts 24:15
Muzungu,
I believe that Scripture, including Revelation, should be taken literally unless there is compelling linguistic reason to do otherwise.
The NT is written in Koine Greek. The difference between Koine Greek and classical Greek is that Koine Greek has a lot of Hebrew idiom superimposed on the Greek text.
In Hebrew the word 'yom' translated as day can mean:
1) from sunset to sunset.
2) an indefinite period of time.
3) an event.
Which meaning is intended is determined by context.
Since it makes no sense for the last day to mean the end of eternity or even the end of time in context; there is compelling linguistic reason to look for a usage that fits. An indefinite period of time best fits the context.
Yes, 2 resurrections, general resurrections.
But don't you have 3?
1. Jesus first fruits.?
2. 1st resur of Rev 20?
3. 2nd resur of Rev 20?
Is this right?
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I believe that Jesus' resur is the same as the 1st resur of Rev 20.
And the 2nd resur is the one descried as the 2nd in Rev 20.
This second one of Rev 20, is the rapt/resur 7th trumpet, 2nd coming for salvation, yet to come.