Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?
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No it wasn't - Peter preached of grace as well.
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
1 Pet 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
it looks to me Marcelo that you have swallowed the dispensational "doctrine" of two gospels which is based on making a false distinction based on this:
(Gal 2:7 KJV) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
What Paul is saying is that the one gospel (not two) was committed to Paul for preaching to the Gentiles and Peter would preach the very same one gospel to the circumcised.
NASB - But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised.
Peter and Paul preached the same gospel - the "two gospels" theory is an invention of dispensational "theology".
So if salvation is by faith as Jesus said, then surely it's as a result of Gods grace.
Are you looking to find where Jesus says grace (Chari's)
I think most in here would be able to answer that.
The harder question for me is " Why was the devil in heaven in the first?
Mind you maybe that's for another thread
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Locutus said:
Ok, I stand corrected: Peter preached as well. But he started preaching that only after the resurrection of the Lord.
Very good quote!
Do you think that the doctrine preached by the incarnate Jesus is exactly the same doctrine that He preached after His resurrection through the apostle Paul? Do you think there is absolutely no difference between the gospels and the letters of Paul?
I agree! Peter and Paul preached the same gospel.
Ok, I stand corrected: Peter preached as well. But he started preaching that only after the resurrection of the Lord.
Very good quote!
Do you think that the doctrine preached by the incarnate Jesus is exactly the same doctrine that He preached after His resurrection through the apostle Paul? Do you think there is absolutely no difference between the gospels and the letters of Paul?
I agree! Peter and Paul preached the same gospel.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Jesus never changed his teaching, He always taught grace, He never taught we are saved by works, or th law.
Paul was speaking and preaching with hindsight of the doctrine of the kingdom of which Christ spoke, I don't see any contradictions between the gospels and Paul's writings.
Not only that Paul was welcomed by the apostles in Jerusalem - if Paul's message was off kilter then they would have said so, but rather they offered the "right hands of fellowship":
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Paul was being a theologian in his writings as well as a preacher of the gospel Marcelo.
Jesus spoke among other things of the gospel of the kingdom:
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Peter and Paul both preached of the kingdom with the knowledge of being in that kingdom, therefore they both applied the prophecies and the explanations of such to the kingdom.
Without Paul's writings the churches of Christ would be impoverished and there would far more arguments over theology than there is now.
Not only that we have Luke's testimony that Paul was chosen by Christ:
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Anyone discounting Paul has to also discount Luke's book of Acts.
Until some six months ago my opinion was exactly the same as yours and I'd never understood why Jesus told his disciples to sell their possessions and give alms; why He taught obedience to the scribes and Pharisees; why He told the man who was cured of leprosy to offer sacrifices; why He kept the Sabbath, etc.
After I read some articles about Jesus preaching the law of Moses during His ministry on earth I began to change my mind. In practice this perspective doesn't affect very much our Christian lives because nobody obeys the above commandments anyway, but it helps us understand WHY we don't obey them.
I have to log off now and hope to be back in an hour or so.
Jesus was preaching the Law of Moses because he was born under it Marcelo which makes sense - yes?
That said, his ministry was the promise of the New covenant ratified with his blood and fulfilling the Law by his obedience.
Only after his death and "us" entering into the New Covenant could we be reconciled to God - the Law could only bring condemnation because no one except Christ kept the Law.
When the Old covenant ended so did it's curse:
Deuteronomy 27:26 - `Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.' And all the people shall say, `Amen.'
And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
so should we obey?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
so should we obey?
just listen to yourself are you saying obey God or disobey god?it should be simple but of course the devil deceives
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Ellsworth1943
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Jesus followed the OT.
Deut 6:
25) And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Matt 19:
16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
After Jesus' resurrection, God's secret was revealed (Eph 3:2ff). As Paul wrote, and Peter taught, we are now saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 1:13-14; Rom 3:20-22; 10:9-10). While it's true that salvation has always been by faith, and grace, OT believers had to demonstrate their faith by trying to keep the law. God knew that no man could keep it, so He granted grace to those who tried.
Gal 3: (ESV)
24) So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Of course He did, and He did it several times. Here is one of the best examples (John 11:25,26):
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Here's another example just before that:I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. (John 10:9).
And even before that:Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29).
I am totally amazed that people have to wonder about the meaning of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. If anyone could be justified by the works of the Law, then His coming was unnecessary.
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