You May Not Want to be Taken/Raptured

[louis]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Has anyone noticed that those in Matthew 24:39 who were taken away were the faithless?
Matthew 24:39 indicates that of the two in the field in Matthew 24:40, the one taken would be the faithless; and that of the two grinding at the mill, the one taken would also be ​the faithless.[/FONT]

 

[louis]

What does a thief do? Does he not take away? Do you want the one who comes as a thief in the night to take away?

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

 

[Willie-T]

Boy, we sure do seem to want to ignore verse 39. Thank you.

 

[Ralph-]

“First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” Matthew 13:30

This has always bothered me. It don't match our thinking about the rapture.

 

[lovnkitties]

Everybody realizes that Matthew 24 is about the fall of Jerusalem, and NOT the end of the world, right? Context context. Matthew 23 into Matthew 24 is the same conversation with the apostles. Note Mt 23:36 "Truly I way to you all these things shall come upon this generation." Also, if it was talking about the end of the world, why on earth would they be told "let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house..."

Verse 24:14 tells us "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come"

Paul tells us in Col 1:23 ""..if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul was made a minister." At the time of the writing, the inhabited world under heaven had heard. 8 years later the temple fell. In their generation--70 a.d.

 

[louis]

Boy, we sure do seem to want to ignore verse 39. Thank you.

Thank you too.

 

[louis]

“First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” Matthew 13:30

This has always bothered me. It don't match our thinking about the rapture.

Thank you, for yet another scripture.

 

[louis]

Everybody realizes that Matthew 24 is about the fall of Jerusalem, and NOT the end of the world, right? Context context. Matthew 23 into Matthew 24 is the same conversation with the apostles. Note Mt 23:36 "Truly I way to you all these things shall come upon this generation." Also, if it was talking about the end of the world, why on earth would they be told "let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house..."

Verse 24:14 tells us "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come"

Paul tells us in Col 1:23 ""..if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul was made a minister." At the time of the writing, the inhabited world under heaven had heard. 8 years later the temple fell. In their generation--70 a.d.

Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are all about the end of the current world systems under Satan.
And what exactly are you claiming; that the Lord came as a thief in the night in 70 AD Jerusalem and took one individual and left another individual? The few who weren't killed by the Romans (not Jesus) in 70 AD Jerusalem were taken into severe bondage. Nothing was left.

 

[Willie-T]

Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are all about the end of the current world systems under Satan.
And what exactly are you claiming; that the Lord came as a thief in the night in 70 AD Jerusalem and took one individual and left another individual? The few who weren't killed by the Romans (not Jesus) in 70 AD Jerusalem were taken into severe bondage.

No they weren't. History tells us that every believer listened to Jesus, and physically left the city, heading to the mountain area.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Has anyone noticed that those in Matthew 24:39 who were taken away were the faithless?
Matthew 24:39 indicates that of the two in the field in Matthew 24:40, the one taken would be the faithless; and that of the two grinding at the mill, the one taken would also be ​the faithless.

Hello Louis,

It is good to see that someone else has understood this, as this has been one of my pet peeves for many years. That being that there are many who have tried to make the "one taken" group as referring to the church being gathered (raptured). The first clue in refutation of this is the fact that the "one taken" is being compared to those taken in the flood, who are the wicked.

The "one taken" is synonymous with the parable In Matt.13 of the wheat and tares, where in verse 30 it is stated that at the harvest/end of the age, the Lord sends his angels out and they "first collect the tares." These are those referred to as those being taken.

In addition, in Luke's version when Jesus tells his disciples "one will be taken and the other left" they ask "where Lord?" That is, where are they going to be taken? And Jesus replies "wherever the dead body is, there will vultures gather." Needless to say, Jesus' reply does not support the idea of the church being gathered. What the Lord's reply does support, is referring to an event that takes place as He is returning to the earth to end the age where in Rev.19:17-18, 21, an angel is calling to all the birds of the air to the great supper of God to eat the flesh of all those whom He will kill via the double-edged sword that will proceed from His mouth, which is figurative representing the word of God.

So, you are correct in that the "one taken" is referring to the wicked who when Christ returns to end the age, the angels will go throughout the earth and collect all "that cause sin and all who do evil."

 

[louis]

No they weren't. History tells us that every believer listened to Jesus, and physically left the city, heading to the mountain area.

There's this documentary, I forget the name, but it shows that Jerusalem in the 50's and 60's AD had become a very lawless city with all types of wrongdoing running rampant.
Several years earlier the leaders of Jerusalem had decided to exile the believers (Acts 8:1). Except for the apostles there were no other believers in Jerusalem.
In retaliation, the Lords full wrath fell upon all the unbelievers in Jerusalem (2 Thessalonians 2:16).

Acts 8:1 [FONT=&quot]And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.[/FONT]

2 Thessalonians 2:16 [FONT=&quot]Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.[/FONT]

 

[Ahwatukee]

What does a thief do? Does he not take away? Do you want the one who comes as a thief in the night to take away?

Now you're confusing two different events!

This scripture is not in reference to the "one taken." The message above to watch, is to believer's. Just as the owner of a house does not know at what time the thief will come to rob his house, neither do believers know at what time the Lord will come to gather the church and so we must keep watch. The above scripture carries the same meaning as the following, which is clearly directed at believers:

"Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

The Lord coming like a thief = takes place prior to God's wrath to gather the church

One taken = Takes place after God's wrath at the end of the age for the wicked

 

[louis]

Hello Louis,

It is good to see that someone else has understood this, as this has been one of my pet peeves for many years. That being that there are many who have tried to make the "one taken" group as referring to the church being gathered (raptured). The first clue in refutation of this is the fact that the "one taken" is being compared to those taken in the flood, who are the wicked.

The "one taken" is synonymous with the parable In Matt.13 of the wheat and tares, where in verse 30 it is stated that at the harvest/end of the age, the Lord sends his angels out and they "first collect the tares." These are those referred to as those being taken.

In addition, in Luke's version when Jesus tells his disciples "one will be taken and the other left" they ask "where Lord?" That is, where are they going to be taken? And Jesus replies "wherever the dead body is, there will vultures gather." Needless to say, Jesus' reply does not support the idea of the church being gathered. What the Lord's reply does support, is referring to an event that takes place as He is returning to the earth to end the age where in Rev.19:17-18, 21, an angel is calling to all the birds of the air to the great supper of God to eat the flesh of all those whom He will kill via the double-edged sword that will proceed from His mouth, which is figurative representing the word of God.

So, you are correct in that the "one taken" is referring to the wicked who when Christ returns to end the age, the angels will go throughout the earth and collect all "that cause sin and all who do evil."

Very good Ahwatukee,
I agree with much of what you have written.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Everybody realizes that Matthew 24 is about the fall of Jerusalem, and NOT the end of the world, right?

Matt.224 is not the end of the world, but the end of the age. The Lord's mention of the abomination being set up in verse 15 marks the middle of Daniel's last seven years. Matt.24:29-31 represents the end of that last 3 1/2 years with the Lord returning to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

The end of this present world does not take place until after the end of Christ thousand year reign as described at the beginning of the great throne judgment and John's description of the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem in Revelation 21 & 22.

 

[louis]

No they weren't. History tells us that every believer listened to Jesus, and physically left the city, heading to the mountain area.

Even if there were people in Jerusalem who when the Romans came circa 70 AD, were prudent enough to flee; they still would not have been believers according to Acts 8:1.

 

[Ahwatukee]

“First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” Matthew 13:30

This has always bothered me. It don't match our thinking about the rapture.

Greetings Ralph,

You are correct, the tares being gathered first is referring to the wicked. Therefore, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age (Matt.24:29-31, Rev.19:11-21), He will send out his angels and they will first gather the tares/wicked and will bring them back to the area where those kings, generals and their armies will be gathered at Armageddon and they along with the tares, will be killed by that double-edged sword. Their spirits will depart and go into Hades and the birds that will have been gathered will eat their flesh.

 

[lovnkitties]

As far as THE rapture, the closest thing we have to pin it to is when He returns for the second time. 1 Thess 4:17 tells me that, being in Christ as I am and staying faithful to the end, if I am alive at His second coming, I will meet with Him in the air (that is after those who are dead in Christ) and thus shall always be with the Lord.

Then 2 Peter tells us in 3:7 "But the gresent heavens and earth by HIs word are being preserved for fire, kept for the day of judgement and destruction of ungodly men" 2 Peter 3:10 tells us what happens after. "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

2 Peter 3:11 says "Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening he coming of the day of the God,on account of which the heavens will be desroyed by burning and the elements will melt with intense heat."

So much for those 'left behind' believers

 

[Ahwatukee]

As far as THE rapture, the closest thing we have to pin it to is when He returns for the second time.

If by the "second time" you mean when he returns to the earth to end the age (Matt.24:29-31, Rev.19:11-21) the on-going problem with the church being gathered here is that it would take the living church through the entire wrath of God, which scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer.

In understanding the chronology of end-time events, it is important to understand that the gathering of the church is a separate event vs. the Lord's return to end the age.

 

[NayborBear]

Everybody realizes that Matthew 24 is about the fall of Jerusalem, and NOT the end of the world, right? Context context. Matthew 23 into Matthew 24 is the same conversation with the apostles. Note Mt 23:36 "Truly I way to you all these things shall come upon this generation." Also, if it was talking about the end of the world, why on earth would they be told "let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house..."

Verse 24:14 tells us "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come"

Paul tells us in Col 1:23 ""..if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul was made a minister." At the time of the writing, the inhabited world under heaven had heard. 8 years later the temple fell. In their generation--70 a.d.

Should the fall of Jerusalem, linked together with "this generation", (for cementing in the time frame) be all you are able to glean from this smack down, by Jesus? Tells me, the "OF the world's" "blinder's campaign", is still, as well as in times past, "racking up", a tremendous score! As the "world" views churchianity, as a "laughing stock." A non THREAT, in their "piece, PIECE, advertising."

 

[Ahwatukee]

2 Peter 3:11 says "Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening he coming of the day of the God,on account of which the heavens will be desroyed by burning and the elements will melt with intense heat."

It is also important to understand that Peter is generalizing in the scripture above and is not something that happens in chronological order. For the world is not destroyed when the Lord returns to end the age. There will be some kind of maintenance performed on the earth after the Lord returns to end the age and that because HIs thousand year reign follows his turn to the earth to end the age and therefore the earth cannot be destroyed at that time. It is not until after the thousand years that the earth is destroyed and a new heaven and new earth are created.