Partakers of the Holy Ghost
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Amen. When we first confessed and received Jesus we were forgiven all our sins and made righteous in Him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
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10 [/SUP]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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11 [/SUP]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
As believers today under the new covenant (a better covenant than the first) we do not pray as David did that the Holy Spirit not depart from us. He has promised to never leave us but be with us forever. Repenting and being converted has to do with a new birth taking place making us sons of God. And then a daily awareness and willingness to have our old way of thinking changed over thereafter as we grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus.
Amen FlyingDove. We confess Jesus to be saved. We see the truth we cannot save ourselves we need the sinless Savior. Jesus is our Great High Priest who lives after the power of an endless life. This Jesus cannot die like the high priests of the old covenant. Jesus didn't need to have offerings made for His sins like the old covenant high priests because Jesus had no sin. The old covenant priests died and another had to be put in his place for himself and the people. But Jesus will never die and He will always be our guarantee to salvation. He is the GUARANTOR who God sees. AMEN!
E
Anyone who comes to a church meeting has tasted the Holy Spirit. And have partook his blessings
People who use this passage ignore the basic text. Where it stays, IF THEY FALL AWAY (if it were possible) they could NEVER BE RENEWED.
You want to use this to support your works gospel. You have to also take it to understand that once salvation is lost. It can NEVER BE RESTORED.
People who use this passage ignore the basic text. Where it stays, IF THEY FALL AWAY (if it were possible) they could NEVER BE RENEWED.
You want to use this to support your works gospel. You have to also take it to understand that once salvation is lost. It can NEVER BE RESTORED.
E
It says “if they fall away”
if can be translated 3 ways
If, but they will not (If you could fly, you would not have to drive in this traffic, it is impossible to fly, yet the sentence still is an applicable sentence)
The same type could be used here, If they fall away (the statement being ask, if they fall away, they can not be renewed)
there is two ways to interpret it.
1. If they fall away, they are lost forever, and can not be renewed!
2. If they fall away (if it were possible) they could not be renewed.
the Resolving answer is it puts christs to open shame.
What puts him to shame? A person actually having the ability to fall away or saying a person can fall away, I would say both. If a person can fall away, He is seen as a liar His eternal gift is not eternal. His perfecting forever those being sanctified failed (he could not perfect them forever) his ability to make sure they never fall away is destroyed, because they can actually fall.
as for believing to the saving of the soul. That is not an ongoing thing, it is having true faith, which saves.
And yes, saying we have to continue to believe to maintain salvation is earning salvation, Because it is trusting in your power Not Gods (it is the work of God we believe)
Hebrews 6:4-6 is very simple to understand if you just look at the Greek tenses used:
Hebrews 6:4-6King James Version (KJV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
In verse 6 both the verbs "crucify" and "put him to an open shame" are present participles - which means action at the same time as the main verb. The main verb is "to renew". It is impossible to renew someone to repentance while at the same time they are "crucifying" Christ again and "putting him to an open shame".
Is it possible to renew someone to repentance if they stop crucifying Christ again and stop putting him to an open shame? The text does not actually answer that question.
But, the text does not make a blanket statement that no one who has fallen away can be renewed to repentance.
Note: If you are a KJV only person, and take the KJV English translation as the final authority, then of course you won't agree with what I am trying to say here.
Hebrews 6:4-6King James Version (KJV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
In verse 6 both the verbs "crucify" and "put him to an open shame" are present participles - which means action at the same time as the main verb. The main verb is "to renew". It is impossible to renew someone to repentance while at the same time they are "crucifying" Christ again and "putting him to an open shame".
Is it possible to renew someone to repentance if they stop crucifying Christ again and stop putting him to an open shame? The text does not actually answer that question.
But, the text does not make a blanket statement that no one who has fallen away can be renewed to repentance.
Note: If you are a KJV only person, and take the KJV English translation as the final authority, then of course you won't agree with what I am trying to say here.
E
Yes, and as you see. many churches are failing because the people are walking away.
What it does not say is that people will lose salvation, It says a fact,. In the last days,. The churches will get smaller.
Can you explain to me why people would lose faith in a God who never lets them down? If you had faith to begin with, were saved, Past from death to life, Given the Holy Spirit. See him work mightily in your life. And a God who never lets you down, Time and time again, you see that when you do his will. Things work out, but when you do not do his will. Things go bad. Can you explain how a person can lose faith?
E
Or we can take it at face value
The author of Hebrews was fighting Judaism,. He was trying to stop people from walking away from grace and returning to law. So he is making a statement of fact, Returning to law (falling away) puts God to open shame, why? Because the law says you can fall away, and need to be renewed./ It says Christ sacrifice was not enough. And if there was a sin which could cause a person to fall away, it means Jesus did not pay for that sin to begin with, so he would have to return to be crucified again,or everyone who commits that sin will be lost forever (talk about putting him to open shame) And we can also look at tyhe verses which immediately follow. Which talks about rain falling to the earth, and this rain produced fruit which brings blessing, But if it does not produce fruit, it is rejected (as works) and NEAR TO BEING CURSED (ie, it is still saved, it is like the Corinthian example of gold silver precious stone, wood hay straw, if our works endure because of the rain, we recieve reward. if it does not, it is BURNT, yet he himself will be saved.
People want to focus on a few verses, and totally ibgnore context. And all the verses around it would would not support their view.
PS. I am not KJ only, And near to being cursed is in all versions except NLT, a version I would never recommend anyway
I agree that repentance and turning from sin is needed for conversion. But, one may or may not receive then the baptism of Holy Spirit at this time. The Spirit of Christ or the understanding that Jesus saves is conversion. The baptism is for ministry to others and for self, the power to live and walk as Jesus did on earth.
And one will have faith for the new beginning, true.
But, then you throw in the warning not to turn away which is a different topic. So which are you really posting about?
The scriptures of warning here in Hebrews is to Hebrews. Hence the name. And is the warning not to turn from the grace of God which is Holy Spirit, and turn back to law.
We have many mixed here in the forum. Confused without realizing who is being spoken to. Such was I too in the beginning.
We can hear His Voice clearer and stronger without condemnation which comes from our trying, come into His rest and begin to overcome the enemy, rather than being overcome.
And one will have faith for the new beginning, true.
But, then you throw in the warning not to turn away which is a different topic. So which are you really posting about?
The scriptures of warning here in Hebrews is to Hebrews. Hence the name. And is the warning not to turn from the grace of God which is Holy Spirit, and turn back to law.
We have many mixed here in the forum. Confused without realizing who is being spoken to. Such was I too in the beginning.
We can hear His Voice clearer and stronger without condemnation which comes from our trying, come into His rest and begin to overcome the enemy, rather than being overcome.
But it can happen.
2Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
E
What is it with people who can not answer questions.
1. That does not says they lost salvation. It said they knew the way to salvation, but they were never changed, They were a dog before they gained the knowledge, They were a dog after they gained the knowledge,. And they were a dog in the end (aftert they died)
2. A dog will eat his vomit. You can teach a dog a new trick, but he will always attempt to eat his vomit (I have known dogs to eat their own bow movement that is who they are)
What this passage states, is that for a person who KNOWS the way to salvation, and does not become saved, it will be worse for them, and I agree, If I knew the way and rejected it, it was on my fingertips and I let it slip away because of pride. It will be MUCH MUCH worse for me than if I had never heard the truth, or never gained that knowledge.
Now can you answer my question please?
E
Here, I will ask again by itself
Can anyone answer this?
Can you explain to me why people would lose faith in a God who never lets them down? If you had faith to begin with, were saved, Past from death to life, Given the Holy Spirit. See him work mightily in your life. And a God who never lets you down, Time and time again, you see that when you do his will. Things work out, but when you do not do his will. Things go bad. Can you explain how a person can lose faith?
Can anyone answer this?
Can you explain to me why people would lose faith in a God who never lets them down? If you had faith to begin with, were saved, Past from death to life, Given the Holy Spirit. See him work mightily in your life. And a God who never lets you down, Time and time again, you see that when you do his will. Things work out, but when you do not do his will. Things go bad. Can you explain how a person can lose faith?
And Peter also tied obedience to God in with the receiving of the Holy Spirit as well.
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
The teaching that obedience is tied to the Holy spirit has been a problem with mainstream preachers for a long time.
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
The teaching that obedience is tied to the Holy spirit has been a problem with mainstream preachers for a long time.
If you are referring to king Saul, yes. Before the Holy Spirit was sent down at Pentecost, this was true, since He came upon some and then departed. But the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ changed everything. Once Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father, the Father and Son *poured out* the Holy Spirit "upon all flesh" as prophesied by Joel. That is why Peter said this after preaching the Gospel on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38): Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ever since, the GIFT of the Holy Spirit (which is also the gift of eternal life) is given by God to every sinner who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. Even Peter and the Jews who accompanied him were surprised that the Holy Spirit was given to all the Gentiles in the household of Cornelius. But that is exactly what the New Covenant was all about -- the gift of the Holy Spirit and the New Birth by the Spirit. Not only does the Spirit regenerate the sinner who believes, but He also comes to indwell the believer, and give him a new heart and a new spirit.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7).
"Which he shed on us abundantly" is another way of saying that the Holy Spirit was "poured out" upon the believer and that he was baptized WITH the Holy Ghost by Christ (as prophesied by John the Baptist). So believers cannot "lose" the Holy Spirit.
Ever since, the GIFT of the Holy Spirit (which is also the gift of eternal life) is given by God to every sinner who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. Even Peter and the Jews who accompanied him were surprised that the Holy Spirit was given to all the Gentiles in the household of Cornelius. But that is exactly what the New Covenant was all about -- the gift of the Holy Spirit and the New Birth by the Spirit. Not only does the Spirit regenerate the sinner who believes, but He also comes to indwell the believer, and give him a new heart and a new spirit.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7).
"Which he shed on us abundantly" is another way of saying that the Holy Spirit was "poured out" upon the believer and that he was baptized WITH the Holy Ghost by Christ (as prophesied by John the Baptist). So believers cannot "lose" the Holy Spirit.