Science and the Bible

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Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#41
What this obvious error implies is not that the bible cannot be trusted, but merely that it's human author's were writing from within their own ideas of what the physical universe was like. Isaiah, obviously & very understandably, thought the world looked very much like most other people of his time did, something like this

lol... this guy has been reading too much Peter Enns (or maybe he has been lurking around biologos too long).

If the Bible depicts the cosmos as a temple for theological significance than the ancients must have been stupid enough to think they could walk to heaven (I guess they never climbed mountains to see that they weren't supporting the solid dome).

Psalm 3:3 But you, O LORD, are a shield about me...​

The Psalmist obviously and very understandably thought that God looked very much something like this



I find it interesting that there is almost always one or two theistic evolutionists hiding in the forum shadows, waiting for the topic to come up. It's like they are on a mission...
 
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Tinker

Guest
#42
When God created the Heavens and the Earth, God made science. I don't however believe in Evolution. I believe in and on the bible about what God has written. That's the best way to go. So, technically when you read the Bible, you actually believe more about God than what scientists think.
 
Apr 17, 2010
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#44

You can see by my age, that I was actually watching this event. Science is true until it is disproven. The moon dust issue was a serious issue in the planning of our space program. And hard EMT does break molecular bonding. An interesting recent issue is the discovery of water on the moon even though the moon has very little protection from microwaves.


Be that as it may, most scientists simply were not expecting the moon lander to sink into dust. Lunar dust is the result of impacts, not "hard EMT".

Too close to be captured.


Because the moon wasn't captured but was instead formed from material blasted off of earth from an enormous impact event.


Boom.

Because these chemicals formed by chance in the environment are divided pretty equally between left twisted and right twisted molecules.


And? If abiogenesis occurred then one set of molecules would pretty much be locked in from the get go.

Well, this guy breathes water when it is young and air when it is mature.


Again, I have to ask 'so what?'

The simplist form should be the easiest to trace the evolutionary history, especially since viruses did not predate complex life.


You don't think that their being really small makes this a little hard?

So, is eye-witness the standard that you set for believing?


Eye witness accounts that are not contradicted by evidence, sure.

Thank you for this interesting conversation.

No problem.




Lurker
 
Apr 17, 2010
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#45
So if someone on a forum classifies themself as a Lurker, yet is actively involved in the goings-on surrounding them, would they be considered scientifically inaccurate or merely deceptive?
Thus the "itinerant".




Lurker
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#46
No, the Bible says the earth is a circle. This is what a circular earth looks like,



while this is what a spherical earth looks like,



Notice a difference?

Lurker
Nice drawings. Yes, I notice the difference.

Can you tell the oceans from dry land? The Bible says God created both and the creatures living therein.

I cannot see an ant colony from your drawings, but I promise you, God created these too, for "who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been His counselor?"

"Oh, the depths of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!"
I'm so very glad He made space, heaven and Earth to be in perfect harmony regardless of semantics.

The Lord is good to you too.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#47
Be that as it may, most scientists simply were not expecting the moon lander to sink into dust. Lunar dust is the result of impacts, not "hard EMT".
The reason why that is now proposed is because there isn't much dust, a fact that is consistant with a young moon. Hard EMT from the sun over millions of years breaks the bonds between atoms. Of particular note is microwaves, which transfer energy into water, but also into metals. Our EMT field protects earth, but the moon doesn't have a sufficient one. Water on the moon precludes an "old" moon.



Because the moon wasn't captured but was instead formed from material blasted off of earth from an enormous impact event.
An impact of that magnitude would not leave enough light elements for a notable atmosphere to remain. Consider the mass of the moon versus the earth. Consider how much mass and speed would be needed to create the moon. The math doesn't work. Such a collision would have produced an asteroid belt of fragments. The evidence does not support any of the scientific theories of the origin of the moon. The moon is young. In addition there is still the high incidence of rare earths on the moon.


Boom.



And? If abiogenesis occurred then one set of molecules would pretty much be locked in from the get go.
[/color]
The broader the genetic base, the more likely that a species will survive, otherwise genetic load occurs quickly. In the case of the origin of life, if it sprang from a single act of abiogenisis, not only would survival be unlikely, but the number of species that would evolve (in that paradigm) would be very limited. Most scientist who believe in abiogenesis, believe that not one, but millions of instances occurred, resulting in a broad range of genetic possibilities. They also believe that the forms that came into being were of a unique type that would easily exchange and recombine genetic material. So, why the left handed only world. Such a common occurance of abiogenesis coupled with the genetic flexibility would result in both left and right handed species.


Again, I have to ask 'so what?'
In a world where species survive by being survivable, Why is there no species that can breathe indefinitely both in and out of water? The fact that we have the "amphibians" that we do would almost require in an evolutionary system for there to be an abundance of perminently amphibious animals.



You don't think that their being really small makes this a little hard?
[/color]
No. Viruses came from pre-existing life. They have genetic material but no way to reproduce that material. and they have the broadest genetic spread, meaning that if they formed by strictly normative means, we would continue to see the process all the time. In fact, we probably would be able to stimulate the process.


Eye witness accounts that are not contradicted by evidence, sure.
contradicting evidence being what? A contradicting witness? That miracles break the "laws" of nature?




No problem.




Lurker
One of the big questions has to do with the dependence of all life on DNA, one of the most complex molecules ever found. There should be an abundance of simple stable pre-life using perhaps self replicating amino acids to form short proteins.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#48
One of the big questions has to do with the dependence of all life on DNA, one of the most complex molecules ever found. There should be an abundance of simple stable pre-life using perhaps self replicating amino acids to form short proteins.
I need to add that what gets through the earth's EM field is absorbed by the ozone layer. The moon doesn't have that either, obviously.
 
Apr 17, 2010
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#49
The reason why that is now proposed is because there isn't much dust, a fact that is consistant with a young moon.
Except that this was proposed and generally accepted before we landed on the moon. And no, the absence of significant "moon dust" is not evidence of a young moon, again this argument is so bad that even YEC organizations such as Answers in Genesis advise against using it.

Hard EMT from the sun over millions of years breaks the bonds between atoms. Of particular note is microwaves, which transfer energy into water, but also into metals. Our EMT field protects earth, but the moon doesn't have a sufficient one. Water on the moon precludes an "old" moon.
It's possible that charged hydrogen in the solar wind could be hitting oxygen isotopes on the lunar surface with enough force to break the oxygen bonds and thus create free oxygen and hydrogen which could then bond to form water molecules. It's also possible that some of that water arrived there in the form of comets striking the lunar surface. Neither of these process' precludes an old moon whereas numerous other indicators, such as impact craters, support an old moon.

"Despite having a surface area only about 1/10 that of earth, our moon is covered by millions of craters. About a half a million have diameters greater than 1 km. The largest is about 360 kilometers (200 miles) wide; dozens are over 150 km in width. Note that the Chicxulub crater on Earth, believed to have contributed to the K-T extinction when dinosaurs and many other life forms went extinct, is about 160 km wide, thought to have been made by a meteorite approximately 10 - 15 km wide. Many such impacts are thought to have occurred during an intense bombardment period about 3.9 billion years ago. On the moon, this evidently resulted in the formation of 1700 lunar craters 100 kilometers wide or larger, defacing about 80% of the moon's crust (Cohen, 2001). As Cohen notes: "The Earth would not have escaped a similar beating during this time." Indeed, since the Earth's surface is over 13 times that of the moon, we can estimate that over major 20,000 meteors (each capable of making 100 km or larger crater) would have impacted the earth during this early bombardment episode alone. If compressed into a "Flood year," that amounts to over 50 major impacts a day. If further condensed into a "few days" as Faulkner suggests, the earth would have received several hundred major impacts each day. Yet, surprisingly Faulkner does not deal with the implications of this for human survival."
http://paleo.cc/ce/craters.htm

An impact of that magnitude would not leave enough light elements for a notable atmosphere to remain. Consider the mass of the moon versus the earth. Consider how much mass and speed would be needed to create the moon. The math doesn't work. Such a collision would have produced an asteroid belt of fragments. The evidence does not support any of the scientific theories of the origin of the moon. The moon is young. In addition there is still the high incidence of rare earths on the moon.
Yes, an impact large enough to blast out the raw materials needed to make the moon would not have left an atmosphere on earth. That atmosphere was formed by volcanic out gassing as well as from materials brought in by comets.

Yes, the math does work. Recent computer simulations have shown how a glancing blow from a Mars-sized body could have thrown up enough material to form the moon.



(source)

Originally it was a ring of fragments, but those fragments collided and coalesced via gravity to form the moon.

"The model and some variants, collaboratively developed by scientists at the Southwest Research Institute (William Ward and Robin Canup; others) and the University of Arizona (A.G.W. Cameron, Jay Melosh, William Hartmann; others), considers the impact to have occurred late in the formational history of the Earth, but probably prior to the differentiation that formed an early terrestrial crust. At this time, a part, perhaps much, of the outer Earth may have been molten. A Mars-sized asteroid or small planet (about 10% of the present terrestrial mass) struck the Earth at a glancing angle. Although the Earth survived total disruption, much of the outer shell on one side was tossed into space, but held to the Earth by its larger gravity. The fragments in the ejecta plume are affected by rotational forces from Earth and within 24 hours have organized into a near circular orbit. In time these fragments (whose composition mirrors that of the primitive Earth's outer shell(s)) began to collide until the Moon was built up to its present size, large enough for it to have melted and reshaped into a sphere, developing an anorthositic crust. The Earth, still forming, healed its "wound", resumed its organization during subsequent remelting into a near-sphere, and went on to fully differentiate into the crust, mantle, and core that has survived to the present day.

The advantages of the swiping impact model are these: 1) a proper relation between Earth-Moon angular momentum comes out of the calculations; 2) the high heat of such an event boils off all water and some of the volatile elements sodium and potassium; 3) the similarity of refractory element composition between Earth and its satellite is explained; 4) only the outer mantle and any early crust are involved; 5) temperatures in a glancing event would have been higher (up to 18000° K); 6) a larger fraction of the Earth target would be ejected into orbit; 7) differences in composition could be due to incorporation of some of the impactor body, which likely varied somewhat from Earth.
http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect19/Sect19_6b.html
The broader the genetic base, the more likely that a species will survive, otherwise genetic load occurs quickly. In the case of the origin of life, if it sprang from a single act of abiogenisis, not only would survival be unlikely, but the number of species that would evolve (in that paradigm) would be very limited. Most scientist who believe in abiogenesis, believe that not one, but millions of instances occurred, resulting in a broad range of genetic possibilities. They also believe that the forms that came into being were of a unique type that would easily exchange and recombine genetic material. So, why the left handed only world. Such a common occurance of abiogenesis coupled with the genetic flexibility would result in both left and right handed species.
You are confusing the amino acids used to build genes with the genes themselves. It is quite likely that left handed amino acids were “selected for” due to their prevalence and because their basic structure helps to build stable structures in certain environments better than right handed amino acids do. As far as abiogenesis goes, there is no one generally accepted theory or hypothesis but irregardless of whether life started in several places at once or at one time if there is a prevalence of one type of building block it’s more than likely that it will be selected for.

In a world where species survive by being survivable, Why is there no species that can breathe indefinitely both in and out of water? The fact that we have the "amphibians" that we do would almost require in an evolutionary system for there to be an abundance of perminently amphibious animals.
Why? Because evolution does not produce “perfect” adaptations, merely ones that are “good enough”. I still don’t see any problem with the evolution of amphibians here besides that evolution didn’t do what you think it should have. Remember that evolution is driven by environment, and environment is not homogenous.

No. Viruses came from pre-existing life. They have genetic material but no way to reproduce that material. and they have the broadest genetic spread, meaning that if they formed by strictly normative means, we would continue to see the process all the time. In fact, we probably would be able to stimulate the process.
I’m still not getting your point. What “process” should we be observing “all the time” if viruses evolved rather than appeared instantly?

contradicting evidence being what? A contradicting witness? That miracles break the "laws" of nature?
Contradicting evidence being clear evidence showing that an event did not happen; a tomb that still contained the body of Christ, a blind man that still couldn’t see, an entire planet that shows not evidence of being covered with water 4,350 years ago, ect.

One of the big questions has to do with the dependence of all life on DNA, one of the most complex molecules ever found. There should be an abundance of simple stable pre-life using perhaps self replicating amino acids to form short proteins.
You mean like this, Scientists Create a Form of Pre-Life? Why should there be an “abundance” of simple stable pre-life?








Lurker
 
Apr 17, 2010
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#50
Itinerant Lurker is a troll
Well hello to you too.

quote him a fact that supports the Bible and he will simply deny the fact or the relevance
That's pretty doubtful seeing as I'm a Christian, but you're welcome to try.

the lunar module was specifically designed to deal with many metres of dust
I have no idea if this is true or not, but it does not change the fact that most scientists did not expect there to be very much moon dust prior to the landing and that the moon dust argument is so epically bad even YEC organizations urge people like you NOT to use it.

btw if the moon and the earth had been associated for millions of years they would have either parted company or collided with each other by now
Tragically, physics and actual measurements we take of the moon disagree. The moon is actually slowly receding at about 3.8 centimeters per year due to tidal drag at a rate consistent with it's formation some 4 billion years ago.

simple newtonian physics
Simple as in Fg = Gm1m2 / R2 ? You do realize that this doesn't actually support your claims don't you?

the hebrew involved means arch or circle or sphere
No, it means circle. Isaiah uses a different and very appropriate word for "sphere" earlier, he chose to use a word that did not at all mean sphere in this case but instead meant "circle". A circle is not a sphere.





Lurker
 
Apr 17, 2010
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#51
It's though-provoking in that people are so prone to confirmation bias that they will listen to people like Kent Hovind and actually take him seriously.

Darwinism is Racist<----- Even if Macro-evolution could be 100% proven, I would still object to it. It seeks to establish there can be such a thing as super-humans and lesser-humans.
No, the theory of evolution is not racist, it merely explains how living things adapt to their environments. Please feel free to learn about the actual theory of evolution any time, it's not that difficult.




Lurker
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#52
Except that this was proposed and generally accepted before we landed on the moon. And no, the absence of significant "moon dust" is not evidence of a young moon, again this argument is so bad that even YEC organizations such as Answers in Genesis advise against using it.
Once again, the issue of moon dust was confirmed science until it wasn't. It is simple science that bonds between atoms are degraded when bombarded with great amounts of EM energy. Look at the sand deserts. Granted that the process is accelerated on earth due to the presence of minute amounts of water in the rock, but the principle is the same. The EM energy (in this case infrared) turns rock into sand. Now consider the moon, receiving hundreds of times the energy with no EM field or atmosphere to mitigate it, recieving not only the visible light and the infrared, but the gamma radiation, microwave and ultraviolet. The presence of the dust that there is speaks of the process, especially considering the obvious volcanic process that must have occured after the "meteorstrikes". Also, it is very difficult for a meteor to hit the earth-side of the moon, since it is locked facing the earth and the vast majority of the craters on this side are calderas formed at the beginning of its existence. The dismissal of the issue was philosophical rather than scientific.



It's possible that charged hydrogen in the solar wind could be hitting oxygen isotopes on the lunar surface with enough force to break the oxygen bonds and thus create free oxygen and hydrogen which could then bond to form water molecules. It's also possible that some of that water arrived there in the form of comets striking the lunar surface. Neither of these process' precludes an old moon whereas numerous other indicators, such as impact craters, support an old moon.
These are processes which are put forward only because of the a priori of an old earth-moon system. Water was found recently in a polar crater where darkeness is continual. They looked there specifically because of the issue of microwaves. But microwaves, as anyone who owns the appliance can tell you, also transfer significant amounts of energy to metals, which would lead to bond fatigue and then to dust.

"Despite having a surface area only about 1/10 that of earth, our moon is covered by millions of craters. About a half a million have diameters greater than 1 km. The largest is about 360 kilometers (200 miles) wide; dozens are over 150 km in width. Note that the Chicxulub crater on Earth, believed to have contributed to the K-T extinction when dinosaurs and many other life forms went extinct, is about 160 km wide, thought to have been made by a meteorite approximately 10 - 15 km wide. Many such impacts are thought to have occurred during an intense bombardment period about 3.9 billion years ago. On the moon, this evidently resulted in the formation of 1700 lunar craters 100 kilometers wide or larger, defacing about 80% of the moon's crust (Cohen, 2001). As Cohen notes: "The Earth would not have escaped a similar beating during this time." Indeed, since the Earth's surface is over 13 times that of the moon, we can estimate that over major 20,000 meteors (each capable of making 100 km or larger crater) would have impacted the earth during this early bombardment episode alone. If compressed into a "Flood year," that amounts to over 50 major impacts a day. If further condensed into a "few days" as Faulkner suggests, the earth would have received several hundred major impacts each day. Yet, surprisingly Faulkner does not deal with the implications of this for human survival."
http://paleo.cc/ce/craters.htm


Most of the "craters"on this side are calderas. Even if this was true, look at the erosion of the craters on this side. You can easy see that a crater is a young impact crater (such as Tycho) But the walls of most of the craters are eroded. And the walls of the "seas even more so. Where did all that rock go to? Dust!
Yes, an impact large enough to blast out the raw materials needed to make the moon would not have left an atmosphere on earth. That atmosphere was formed by volcanic out gassing as well as from materials brought in by comets.
The evidence doesn't support the "outgassing" theory. The chemicals of the atmosphere are not even close to being proportional to the chemicals produced by volcanic outgassing. Oxygen is being slowly released by the soil, but volcanic out gassing would not release enough to produce the atmosphere that we have. The oxygen released by the soil is only a sustainable system if it is calculated over hundreds of trillions of years, longer than even the scientists would postulate. In addition, this great "impact" would have an enormous impact on the plate structure of the earth, one that is not consistant with our present earth. The "comet" theory is again one proposed only to explain the inconsistancies of scientific models regarding the origin of earth.

Yes, the math does work. Recent computer simulations have shown how a glancing blow from a Mars-sized body could have thrown up enough material to form the moon.
That work is highly suspect, not only becuse it explains one thing while opening up a thousand other problems, but because it is a theory that uses the Sherlock maxim rather than Ocham's razor: Since the moon was formed by an impact, the only math that works, however improbable, must be the explanation.



(source)

Originally it was a ring of fragments, but those fragments collided and coalesced via gravity to form the moon.

"The model and some variants, collaboratively developed by scientists at the Southwest Research Institute (William Ward and Robin Canup; others) and the University of Arizona (A.G.W. Cameron, Jay Melosh, William Hartmann; others), considers the impact to have occurred late in the formational history of the Earth, but probably prior to the differentiation that formed an early terrestrial crust. At this time, a part, perhaps much, of the outer Earth may have been molten. A Mars-sized asteroid or small planet (about 10% of the present terrestrial mass) struck the Earth at a glancing angle. Although the Earth survived total disruption, much of the outer shell on one side was tossed into space, but held to the Earth by its larger gravity. The fragments in the ejecta plume are affected by rotational forces from Earth and within 24 hours have organized into a near circular orbit. In time these fragments (whose composition mirrors that of the primitive Earth's outer shell(s)) began to collide until the Moon was built up to its present size, large enough for it to have melted and reshaped into a sphere, developing an anorthositic crust. The Earth, still forming, healed its "wound", resumed its organization during subsequent remelting into a near-sphere, and went on to fully differentiate into the crust, mantle, and core that has survived to the present day.

The advantages of the swiping impact model are these: 1) a proper relation between Earth-Moon angular momentum comes out of the calculations; 2) the high heat of such an event boils off all water and some of the volatile elements sodium and potassium; 3) the similarity of refractory element composition between Earth and its satellite is explained; 4) only the outer mantle and any early crust are involved; 5) temperatures in a glancing event would have been higher (up to 18000° K); 6) a larger fraction of the Earth target would be ejected into orbit; 7) differences in composition could be due to incorporation of some of the impactor body, which likely varied somewhat from Earth.
http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect19/Sect19_6b.html
It is unlikely that such a ring could have formed into a sphere because of the competing gravitational pulls of Earth and the Sun. An example of this problem is the asteroid belt. Again, we use Sherlock's maxim. "The advantage of this model is that..."
You are confusing the amino acids used to build genes with the genes themselves. It is quite likely that left handed amino acids were “selected for” due to their prevalence and because their basic structure helps to build stable structures in certain environments better than right handed amino acids do. As far as abiogenesis goes, there is no one generally accepted theory or hypothesis but irregardless of whether life started in several places at once or at one time if there is a prevalence of one type of building block it’s more than likely that it will be selected for.
Non biological formation of amino acids result in an approximately even split. There is no explanation of how left-sided molecules would have an advantage, you are stating as fact that which is not evidenced. Sherlock's maxim again: since there is almost no left handed molecules, there must have been an advantage. By the way, there are a few simple life forms with right handed twists, so survivability is not really a problem.



Why? Because evolution does not produce “perfect” adaptations, merely ones that are “good enough”. I still don’t see any problem with the evolution of amphibians here besides that evolution didn’t do what you think it should have. Remember that evolution is driven by environment, and environment is not homogenous.
But that is exactly the issue: evolution produces helpful adaptations except when it doesn't. The environmental history of the earth would have created increasingly narrow species spread as species died rather than changed quickly enough. Evolution demand greater homogeny in order for the genetic spread to widen.



I’m still not getting your point. What “process” should we be observing “all the time” if viruses evolved rather than appeared instantly?
There should be a process by which living organisms continue to produce viruses, since viruses are so abundant and show such a wide genetic spread.



Contradicting evidence being clear evidence showing that an event did not happen; a tomb that still contained the body of Christ, a blind man that still couldn’t see, an entire planet that shows not evidence of being covered with water 4,350 years ago, ect.



You mean like this, Scientists Create a Form of Pre-Life? Why should there be an “abundance” of simple stable pre-life?








Lurker
I must go to work. I will answer your last question tonight.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#53
In an evolutionary model, there has to be a form between self replicating amino acids and heterotrophic bacteria, some sort of cell-like form with amino acids capable of producing proteins but without the complex (and hard to produce) DNA. These pre-cells would have reproduced by budding and freely absorbed other self replicating amino acids. Eventually these amino acids would have joined together, producing more complex proteins. Then a time would come wihen the amino acid chain would form the first short DNA chain. By some process, the DNA would continue to form until the complexity was sufficient to produce heterotrophic bacteria. Some of the heterotrophic bacteria would become develop special functions. The bacteria would begin to function communally, and eventually these specialized bacteria would become the mitochodria and chloroplasts of cells.
The problem is the complete absence of these pre-cells. We are talking about an evolutionarty gap that is greater than the gap between protozoa and man, completely missing in the present environment and without any explanation of how they functioned or evolved. And remember, that in order to produce the diversity of life that exists now, you would have to have a superabundance. Yet not a single example survived.
 
Jan 19, 2010
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#54
As A Christian, our Worldview, how we define everything should be through God's Word. If science contradicts, we don't change God's Word, we seek what we did wrong - every time we can't explain something, we might say miracle - which goes perfectly with our worldview of an All powerful God

As an atheist, the worldveiw is Philosophical Naturalism, so they define everything as man's reasoning, naturally occuring with no supernatural help - every time they can't explain it naturally it's called a quantum fluctuation which is detrimental to their worldview


Science, taken through a Biblical Worldview, makes sense, Naturalism, is shadow and mirrors
 
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Lifelike

Guest
#55
LURKER blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Unbeliever. Haha.
 
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giantone

Guest
#56
LURKER blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Unbeliever. Haha.
lol, I always thought is was sneaky with some of the things he said like "What this obvious error implies is not that the bible cannot be trusted,"

If you can't get them to agree with you, at least get them not to completely disagree with you.

It escapes me why some would work so hard to free us Christians from this evil faith we have.
 
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Escalus

Guest
#57
Fear of God brings wisdom and understanding. Fear of Satan brings ignorance.

Praise God.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,126
1,070
113
New Zealand
#58
Any reading of scripture anyone is going to do.. needs to be with CONTEXT in mind.

For example.. 'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever'-- the context is actually about Jesus' second coming.. and the surety of His promise.

Another 'Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am with them'- -- Jesus is referring to the process for resolving sin issues between church members. - It is an extension of the Old Testament way of resolving disputes to be placed within the New Testament local church.

So.. when you start talking about scientific references.. there are questions to be asked.. like who, what, where, when, why, how?

Like I brought up before-- there are different takes on who was there at the tomb of Jesus.. but are they contradicting eachother? No! They are giving accounts of what they thought it was important to bring up from the event.. so one may highlight particular people.. while the other highlights different people.. but neither is excluding the presence of the other people present.

So the bible... has references in Revelation of beasts.. etc... but it is symbolic literature.. and these symbols are obviously metaphors for real events that will take place. Eg.. a lampstand.. being the place of the Holy Spirit in a church family.. not an actual physical lamp. And the four headed beast.. not actually being some great monster.. but some kind of human organisation-- when you read Daniel in conjunction with Revelation it reveals this.

So.. it is literal.. but has different ways of using language to explain real things.

So when someone says something is a circle, instead of 'this is a three dimensional, spherical shape' they aren't wrong.. plus as is said before.. have a look at the Hebrew upon which the English is based.. that gives more detail
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#59
Luker, the math is not there. If it is, please post it; I'll study the math over to correct my error. You'll find Moses' DNA before you can find the math on this moon hypothesis.

Luker, you forget that there are brilliant scientist, computer geeks and mathematicians who are also passionate for God (Isaac Newton, Euler, Einstein being some of them). They can also prove the error of the atheist's approach to these celestial hypothesis.

These computer generated hypothesis spin the moon so fast in order to achieve momentum for the debri to collect into a clump of moon. Otherwise, the debri would be like rings around Saturn, for example.

Then the computer software provides for billions of forever years for the clump-of-moon to smooth out as in a more spherical shape vs. the clumps currently observed in the asteroid belt.

Then the computer software needs more billions of forever years to slow down this fast-spinning smoothed-out moon in order to bring the moon to it's current speed (28 days around the Earth). All this math doesn't fit into other calculations scientists have made with respect to the Solar System.

Sorry to break it to ya', but the math is not there. The physics (gravitational pull) is not there either, but "that's a horse of a different color." Either the moon is older than Earth itself, or it's not.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#60
Itinerant Lurker, I herd u liek mudkipz.