Are people in your church saying you can't get close to God unless you follow their r
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Do they want all to follow rules or a spacific doctrine?
As to church, I have not been for a while, mornings are very hard for me. I do wish chuch would be open all day, like in the bible, this would be grand. I am looking for an evening service, but have yet to find one. As to rules, I can see some being ok, if it is done in wisdom and common sence, and in Jesus.
But rules should never stop faith or the love of God Our Fathers work in Jesus.
In Jesus, God bless. pickles
As to church, I have not been for a while, mornings are very hard for me. I do wish chuch would be open all day, like in the bible, this would be grand. I am looking for an evening service, but have yet to find one. As to rules, I can see some being ok, if it is done in wisdom and common sence, and in Jesus.
But rules should never stop faith or the love of God Our Fathers work in Jesus.
In Jesus, God bless. pickles
A little history on rules. God gave the first rule. "Don't eat the fruit of the tree of good and evil." Quite a long time later, He gave some more, the 10 commandments, which were really a covenant. Because the people did not want to be a part of the covenant, God gave them several hundred more rules, which He Himself said were not good for them, because there was no way that they could keep them. Along comes Jesus, and He talks about all of these rules, and scripture and many other things, but gives one rule, well really two. The first is that if one wants to please God and have eternal life, then they must believe in Him, in the Son of God. The other is to love one another even as He has loved us. The Jesus dies and raises again and ascends into heaven. After the Holy Spirit comes in power, the church is started, and it must be remembered that all of these who were the first members of the church are Jews, who live under all of these hundreds of rules. Now God wants to bring into the church Gentiles. But the apostles are rather reluctant to do so, considering them unclean. Peter has a vision where God tells him to not call unclean what God has cleansed. (More on this later.) So some Gentiles are admitted into the church, which causes no end of troubles for those who are Jews, wondering just how to make these Gentiles into Jews. Of course, these few Gentiles have received the Holy Spirit, so the Jews cannot hardly say that they are not cleansed, nor can they tell them that they are not of the church. But the Jews are not comfortable with this situation.
Several years later, Paul comes to town, and the apostles gather with him to discuss the situation. Paul is very direct, and tells them that if God did not give them (the Gentiles,) any rules, they who were they to give them rules? And what do the apostles do? They pray and take this situation to the Holy Spirit, and come back and decide that the Gentiles should not have any burden put upon them as to rules, other than that they should abstain from meat which has been sacrificed to idols, and from fornication. Hey, no hundreds of rules! Ha, Ha!
Still, there were those who were coming into the church of the Gentiles, that is, those who believed in Jesus, who had no rules, and they were trying to make the Gentiles follow the rules that were given to the Jews, even to having them circumcise themselves. Paul answered these men by saying that circumcision of the flesh is nothing, but circumcision of the heart, and if one receives circumcision of the flesh, then they have been separated from Christ!
So, who is putting rules upon us now?
Several years later, Paul comes to town, and the apostles gather with him to discuss the situation. Paul is very direct, and tells them that if God did not give them (the Gentiles,) any rules, they who were they to give them rules? And what do the apostles do? They pray and take this situation to the Holy Spirit, and come back and decide that the Gentiles should not have any burden put upon them as to rules, other than that they should abstain from meat which has been sacrificed to idols, and from fornication. Hey, no hundreds of rules! Ha, Ha!
Still, there were those who were coming into the church of the Gentiles, that is, those who believed in Jesus, who had no rules, and they were trying to make the Gentiles follow the rules that were given to the Jews, even to having them circumcise themselves. Paul answered these men by saying that circumcision of the flesh is nothing, but circumcision of the heart, and if one receives circumcision of the flesh, then they have been separated from Christ!
So, who is putting rules upon us now?
As to what God has cleansed; all of the rules, those hundreds of rules which the Jews were laboring under, were for one purpose; to cleanse them before God. But these rules, these sacrifices which were part of the rules, they could not cleanse completely the Jews, and there was always the knowledge of guilt in their hearts and minds. In truth, they were never cleansed enough to approach God, and only the high priest could do this, in very much fear for his life, as he went into the holy place in the temple. And this not without the shedding of very much blood.
Jesus cleansed us for all times, from all guilt, from all sin, even cleansing our conscience of sin. The rules could not do this. It is why Jesus came.
Jesus cleansed us for all times, from all guilt, from all sin, even cleansing our conscience of sin. The rules could not do this. It is why Jesus came.
Another interesting point about rules. When Adam and Eve broke the first rule, God kicked them out of the Garden, so they did not even have access to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, (they had already eaten anyway,) so there were no rules at all, for a very long time. Not until Moses' time were there any rules given. After the time of Moses, there were no new rules given. Not until Jesus when He gave us the new commandment, to love one another even as He has loved us.
Now in all of this I am talking about rules from God, and who they were addressed to.
Now in all of this I am talking about rules from God, and who they were addressed to.
As I sat here thinking about this rules thing, I had an interesting thought come to me. Adam and Eve had one rule given to them in the Garden. One rule for those who were sinless. One rule for those who had no consciousness of sin. With the giving of the Law, and all of the rules that followed, one thing was apparent from all of the rules, a consciousness of sin that only grew as cognizance of the rules grew. And as the consciousness of sin grew, so did the separation from God.
Now we have had our sin paid for, we have been cleansed from our sin, we have had our bodies washed with pure water, and we have had our hearts cleansed with His blood, even to cleansing our conscience of sin. And because of this cleansing, God has not given us rules to make us aware of sin again, (for without the Law, sin is not imparted,) but has rather made us to be without sin in our deepest nature, which is after His nature. Freedom is not having rules that try to control a nature which is antagonistic towards the rules, but having a nature which does not need any rules. God's laws written in our hearts and minds is not in the form of rules, but rather in the form of freedom from wanting to do evil, a nature which is after His nature. It is why we are called His children.
So why do we let these lawyers place us under a bunch of rules, which have no effect other than to stain our conscience which effectively keeps us away from God. When the church learns this, then they will again become pleasing to God.
Now we have had our sin paid for, we have been cleansed from our sin, we have had our bodies washed with pure water, and we have had our hearts cleansed with His blood, even to cleansing our conscience of sin. And because of this cleansing, God has not given us rules to make us aware of sin again, (for without the Law, sin is not imparted,) but has rather made us to be without sin in our deepest nature, which is after His nature. Freedom is not having rules that try to control a nature which is antagonistic towards the rules, but having a nature which does not need any rules. God's laws written in our hearts and minds is not in the form of rules, but rather in the form of freedom from wanting to do evil, a nature which is after His nature. It is why we are called His children.
So why do we let these lawyers place us under a bunch of rules, which have no effect other than to stain our conscience which effectively keeps us away from God. When the church learns this, then they will again become pleasing to God.
G
In my last Church I had a position in the helps ministry, it wasn't high up or anything, but at the time I was being disobedient to God and falling sexually. I was open with my pastor about it and he told me I couldn't be in any position of authority in the church till this was resolved. I agree 100% with his decision if your in any leadership position and are doing anything that even looks like sin it isn't good.
My pastor I have now won't let any other woman except his wife be in the passenger seat of his van because the potential of someone taking it wrong, he's never even came close to even thinking of adultery and watches only the news on T.V. with his hand on the remote to shut off all commercials, He used to get Reader's Digest but lately there isn't much of a magazine to read after the adds he tears out before he reads the magazine so he doesn't get it anymore.
His Biblical advice on adultery, run, don't walk run from it literally if you have to. he has done this in the past as well.
My pastor I have now won't let any other woman except his wife be in the passenger seat of his van because the potential of someone taking it wrong, he's never even came close to even thinking of adultery and watches only the news on T.V. with his hand on the remote to shut off all commercials, He used to get Reader's Digest but lately there isn't much of a magazine to read after the adds he tears out before he reads the magazine so he doesn't get it anymore.
His Biblical advice on adultery, run, don't walk run from it literally if you have to. he has done this in the past as well.
Brother, I understand what you are saying. In positions of teaching or of authority, we have a responsibility to those we are over, those we teach, because we are servants of them in love. If we are shown to be irresponsible, then it hurts them, deeply, and undermines all of the Spirit's work in their lives. But this is not by rules, but by love for those we serve.
In His love,
vic
In His love,
vic
Something else about rules and how the following of rules is not like love. One can follow all of the rules, and not have any love in their heart, and thus be nothing, worthless, ready to be burned. But one can follow love, be moved, motivated, driven by love, and have great reward in heaven. God is love.
C
We, as human beings, always figure out the boundaries. Even if we say we have no rules, we do. Even if they are not written down, we have them. If we make a statement that says "no rules" then we are not true to ourselves. The question is not whether we have rules, but how we handle them. I have a rule in my church that you cannot smoke in the sanctuary. It is not written down, it has never been voted on, but it is there. If a stranger came in and lit a cigarette, I would not kick him out. If he continued to come, I would probably, eventually speak to him about it, not as a matter of condemnation but simply a matter of consideration for those who are sensitive to the smell.
Some rules are more important than others. I would not allow someone who is a child molester to be alone with children. That is an absolute. I have a responsibility to protect the children. You see, we always have rules. The question is why, how we administer them, and if we are willing to examine them to see if they are truly needful.
When I first started in ministry, I worked for a pastor that had a rule--no woman on the platform unless they were wearing a dress. We had a small choir, and one of the ladies had a significant weight problem. She really could not wear dresses. I went to him privately and asked about this. At first he was shocked and angry and said no. Several months later, he changed the rule. Sometimes people just need time to sit back and think about the rules to see if they make sense.
Some rules are more important than others. I would not allow someone who is a child molester to be alone with children. That is an absolute. I have a responsibility to protect the children. You see, we always have rules. The question is why, how we administer them, and if we are willing to examine them to see if they are truly needful.
When I first started in ministry, I worked for a pastor that had a rule--no woman on the platform unless they were wearing a dress. We had a small choir, and one of the ladies had a significant weight problem. She really could not wear dresses. I went to him privately and asked about this. At first he was shocked and angry and said no. Several months later, he changed the rule. Sometimes people just need time to sit back and think about the rules to see if they make sense.
I don't consider these as rules, but actions that come from a heart full of God's love. In this case, His love is a rule to itself. The rule is to always act in His love, and not out of any other motivation. A rule would say no smoking in the congregation, and it would condemn those who had the desire to smoke. The way you explain it, there is no possibility of condemnation, and even less possibility of offending others.
I agree that society needs rules. Why? Because society is not saved, it does not have the heart of love that is the gift of God. You yourself showed the difference between rules and love. Your pastor made a decision which reflected God's love towards another. This brings glory to God. Rules do not. Consider how Jesus spoke to the scribes and Pharisees. They tithed in even the smallest things, even in the seed from their dill. But they neglected compassion. The woman who had nothing gave her only coin, yet she gave a sacrifice which was beyond any rule of tithing. The woman caught in adultery, freed because no one wanting to stone her was without sin. Throughout His ministry, Jesus taught that rules were not enough, that rules would not satisfy our heavenly Father, but that actions above the rules, beyond the rules, actions that serve love and not the rules, this was the way to be pleasing to God.
I agree that society needs rules. Why? Because society is not saved, it does not have the heart of love that is the gift of God. You yourself showed the difference between rules and love. Your pastor made a decision which reflected God's love towards another. This brings glory to God. Rules do not. Consider how Jesus spoke to the scribes and Pharisees. They tithed in even the smallest things, even in the seed from their dill. But they neglected compassion. The woman who had nothing gave her only coin, yet she gave a sacrifice which was beyond any rule of tithing. The woman caught in adultery, freed because no one wanting to stone her was without sin. Throughout His ministry, Jesus taught that rules were not enough, that rules would not satisfy our heavenly Father, but that actions above the rules, beyond the rules, actions that serve love and not the rules, this was the way to be pleasing to God.
Amen!!! My experience has been that rules tend to stand in the way of love, rules become a law unto themselves, and dictate actions and thoughts. This way leads only to condemnation, because rules are such that they appeal to the fallen nature, and ultimately lead to death. Love, being from and of God, leads to life and holiness and finally, to purity. Perfect love has no fear. The funny thing about rules, they almost always have their basis in fear, because rules are against something we fear, something we know would cause harm. There are no rules against love.
Among those condemned by the words of Jesus, none hold a place of condemnation that approaches that held by the religious leaders of His day. They knew of the kingdom, but because they themselves would not enter, and they denied it to others. They worked for money, taking even widows houses, and made pretense with long prayers, in places where they could be seen in their false piety. They would search the world over to find a disciple, and turn him into twice the son of hell that they were. Their teachings about the temple were such that they made something of the temple over the One who sanctifies the temple. They followed the Law to an exactness which can only be described as legal, to the extreme, while ignoring more important matters of the Law, justice, mercy, faithfulness; straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel. They made appearances, seeking to appear as cleansed, holy, when inside they were ravening wolves and hypocrites. Other things applied to them.
You are completely right. Take away the love, leave the rules, and we are worse than they were. We would deserve a greater condemnation. We have seen Him, through His love for us. The one who says that he knows God, and does not love his brother, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can we say we love God whom we cannot see when we do not love our brother who is with us right here?
Blessings in Christ
vic
You are completely right. Take away the love, leave the rules, and we are worse than they were. We would deserve a greater condemnation. We have seen Him, through His love for us. The one who says that he knows God, and does not love his brother, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can we say we love God whom we cannot see when we do not love our brother who is with us right here?
Blessings in Christ
vic
greatkraw I like your list. Lately the pastor has been making it very clear that if people aren't going to church to pray everyday where he can see them praying their prayers aren't good enough. As if we have to go through him for our prayers to get to God.
I feel sorry for him because believe it or not we don't have to go through him for God to hear our prayers.
He has ruels about you have to obey all his rules or you can't be on the worship team. Mind you I think some rules are good. Like to me one rule would be that you would devote Sundays to God and be there every Sunday unless there was a real emergency. That you would already know what lift up holy hands to God meant and be happy to do so. Since our worship team sings I would think being able to sing would be a plus.
His rules are you must be there on Thursday prayer night. But I guess there are special rules for special people because his daughter and son and law live far away and there never there for prayer night. But basically they are the only real singers and they are both very good. The rest you can't hear them.
One on the worship team lives in self pity so she can't even get out of her seat at greeting time. I would think a rule would be good that if you chose to stay in bondage maybe you don't need to be on the worship team.
The pastor and the worship team have made up their own rules on they are the only ones who can use the gifts from God to help people. Problem is they didn't clear that rule with God and God sends some of us to go lay hands on the people and the pastor gets mad as hell at us. But we follow God and not man.
The pastor actually came up and forced hands off of a young lady when the Lord told the woman to go lay hands on her. The worship team has declared out loud at times when they see us laying hands that God told them for people not to lay hands. Because they are jealous of the gifts God has given us.
They forget the parts in the bible to check what you hear with the bible. Like the bible says lay hands.
Half of them are not there on Sundays.
They announced that they the worship team are the ones who usher in the presence of God. Kinda makes you wonder what the Holy Spirit does??
They made up rules about the altar of God that so and so time is only for worship. Don't ask God for anything at these times. Problem is God doesn't follow their rueles and he's open for all prayers and all worship at all times whether they give him permission or not.
God is no respector of persons. To him all of us are equal. He's ready to pour out his gifts to those who obey him and the ones who keep staying close to him.
Know that you don't need a piece of paper to say you are a pastor. You don't need mans approvel to say you can lay hands. You don't need someone else to read the bible to you. All you need is God living inside of you and he will tell you what to do.
And most importantly you don't need anyone else to hear Gods voice for you. If you are obeying and close to God you will hear his voice for yourself.
God is looking for people who will obey him and not man.
God bless you all!
I feel sorry for him because believe it or not we don't have to go through him for God to hear our prayers.
He has ruels about you have to obey all his rules or you can't be on the worship team. Mind you I think some rules are good. Like to me one rule would be that you would devote Sundays to God and be there every Sunday unless there was a real emergency. That you would already know what lift up holy hands to God meant and be happy to do so. Since our worship team sings I would think being able to sing would be a plus.
His rules are you must be there on Thursday prayer night. But I guess there are special rules for special people because his daughter and son and law live far away and there never there for prayer night. But basically they are the only real singers and they are both very good. The rest you can't hear them.
One on the worship team lives in self pity so she can't even get out of her seat at greeting time. I would think a rule would be good that if you chose to stay in bondage maybe you don't need to be on the worship team.
The pastor and the worship team have made up their own rules on they are the only ones who can use the gifts from God to help people. Problem is they didn't clear that rule with God and God sends some of us to go lay hands on the people and the pastor gets mad as hell at us. But we follow God and not man.
The pastor actually came up and forced hands off of a young lady when the Lord told the woman to go lay hands on her. The worship team has declared out loud at times when they see us laying hands that God told them for people not to lay hands. Because they are jealous of the gifts God has given us.
They forget the parts in the bible to check what you hear with the bible. Like the bible says lay hands.
Half of them are not there on Sundays.
They announced that they the worship team are the ones who usher in the presence of God. Kinda makes you wonder what the Holy Spirit does??
They made up rules about the altar of God that so and so time is only for worship. Don't ask God for anything at these times. Problem is God doesn't follow their rueles and he's open for all prayers and all worship at all times whether they give him permission or not.
God is no respector of persons. To him all of us are equal. He's ready to pour out his gifts to those who obey him and the ones who keep staying close to him.
Know that you don't need a piece of paper to say you are a pastor. You don't need mans approvel to say you can lay hands. You don't need someone else to read the bible to you. All you need is God living inside of you and he will tell you what to do.
And most importantly you don't need anyone else to hear Gods voice for you. If you are obeying and close to God you will hear his voice for yourself.
God is looking for people who will obey him and not man.
God bless you all!