If we're saved by faith
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(Spinkling sugar coating, for I understand you can’t hear my gentle tone of voice)...
Baptism is God’s mercy. He provided a way to be saved, but not everyone will be saved because not everyone will obey God. You are rejecting God if you say that the Bible says baptism saves, and you say no it doesn’t. You are rejecting truth if within the following verse you do not admit that obedience is a must to be saved from hell (salvation)... “With flames of fire He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son.”
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Jews knew it? Then why were they demanding gentiles who comes to god be circumcised?
Circumcision could be considered the same thing, Someone else circumcised you, Yet God called it a work.
Earning salvation by being obedient to Gods commands Paul said is not what saves us (not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us)
You can not have it both ways, if we have to obey God in baptism, we are required to obey him in all areas.
Circumcision could be considered the same thing, Someone else circumcised you, Yet God called it a work.
Earning salvation by being obedient to Gods commands Paul said is not what saves us (not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us)
You can not have it both ways, if we have to obey God in baptism, we are required to obey him in all areas.
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Gods mercy is God baptizing us unti himself
Water baptism is one man immersing you in water.
one is a work of man done by the hands of men, One is the work of God done by the hands of God (spiritual circumcision or baptism)
please do not try to say both are the same, that would be called blasphemy (attributing the work of God to man.
Your right, God provided a way to be saved, He gave that gospel in the OT, and fulfilled it in the New Testament, It is called the blood of Christ, or the cross.
Not water baptism
Paul told Timothy he had knowledge as a child on how to be saved, Water baptism had not even yet been introduced.
Water baptism is one man immersing you in water.
one is a work of man done by the hands of men, One is the work of God done by the hands of God (spiritual circumcision or baptism)
please do not try to say both are the same, that would be called blasphemy (attributing the work of God to man.
Your right, God provided a way to be saved, He gave that gospel in the OT, and fulfilled it in the New Testament, It is called the blood of Christ, or the cross.
Not water baptism
Paul told Timothy he had knowledge as a child on how to be saved, Water baptism had not even yet been introduced.
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Titus 3: 5, not by works of righteousness which we have done. But by his mercy he saved us
works of righteousness are being obedient to Gods commands, Disobedience to Gods commands is a work of the flesh.
being obedient to Gods command to be baptised is a work of righteousness, failing to do so is a work of the flesh (If I know to do right, but do not do it, to me it is sin)
we are not now, nor has any man ever been saved by a work of righteousness. Including being water baptised.
We were saved by the work of Christ on the cross.
works of righteousness are being obedient to Gods commands, Disobedience to Gods commands is a work of the flesh.
being obedient to Gods command to be baptised is a work of righteousness, failing to do so is a work of the flesh (If I know to do right, but do not do it, to me it is sin)
we are not now, nor has any man ever been saved by a work of righteousness. Including being water baptised.
We were saved by the work of Christ on the cross.
(I am honored to have the privilege to discuss this with you, to present the truth as I know it, and I respect your God-given freewill to think and decide for yourself)...
It’s interesting that you bring up Paul. How was Paul saved? He met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Jesus told him to go into the city where he will be told what he must do. Note that Jesus didn’t tell him Himself, because He respects the job God gave to Christians.
So Paul obviously believed, having met Jesus face to face- which changed his life from there. Did his faith save him? No. He prayed, and was prayed for, did prayer save Paul? No. He went without eating, did fasting save Paul? No. He experienced miraculous healing, did blessings save Paul? No. It wasn’t until Ananias said “What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized and wash away your sins- calling on the name of the Lord.”
The one verse in all the bible that it seems everyone gravities to of which it gets a lot of attention. In light of the overwhelming number of verses in God's word that never use any form of work related to salvation one would think that the issue of works verse faith would be settled. Consider this, in the Gospel of John the word repent or water is absent as part of what Jesus Himself stated as necessary for salvation. Over 90 times the verb forms for faith which is believe is used in the Gospel of John and two time the same word is use as an adjective, never as a noun. John's Gospel never uses water or repent when speaking about salvation. If water and repent were necessary don't you think Jesus would have used those words? The overwhelming evidence in God's work is By Grace Alone Through Faith Alone, To God's Glory Alone. Paul explains Justification in Galatians and he never used water or repent to explain how one is Justified, but he used the work faith about 20 plus times. If one wants to understand justification then read Galatians, you won't find water or repent in it.
Let’s just set baptism aside for a moment, and look at only obedience. Jesus said most people will not be saved (wide is the gate). So what is the difference between the righteous and the unrighteousness?
Well ‘faith-only’ people say “The righteous have faith, and their faith saves them.” But the Bible says faith is obedience- therefore you must at least admit that salvation is not granted without some form of obedience- otherwise everyone would be saved- which makes Jesus out to be a liar.
Is there anyone here who believes the gift of salvation is granted to those who refuse to obey God at all?
Well ‘faith-only’ people say “The righteous have faith, and their faith saves them.” But the Bible says faith is obedience- therefore you must at least admit that salvation is not granted without some form of obedience- otherwise everyone would be saved- which makes Jesus out to be a liar.
Is there anyone here who believes the gift of salvation is granted to those who refuse to obey God at all?
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Doctrines are not decided by simply counting how many times a word is used. Doctrine are decided by context, content and purpose. If we were to use your train of thought, where would that leave "grace". It is not mentioned even once in the gospels by anyone. Even your "faith alone" in not mentioned in the Bible but once and then not for your purpose.
Repent is to aknowledge our sins as being trangrsssions against what is good.. This is not a works.. this is a belief..
Baptized is the baptisim of the Holy Spirit.. This happens the moment we believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for our salvation on the cross.. This is not a works.. This too is belief and trust...
We are saved by Faith... And nothing else..
Baptized is the baptisim of the Holy Spirit.. This happens the moment we believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for our salvation on the cross.. This is not a works.. This too is belief and trust...
We are saved by Faith... And nothing else..
Hi "One Faith" nice to meet you. It is interesting that what seems to be according to the Acts quote, on its face, is not what Paul taught in his letters to the Churches. In light of that, knowing all of Paul's teaching on salvation, that one would think that if we were to understand water baptism as washing away our sins that he too would have taught it that way. So if what, on its face, seems to be salvation by water baptism is true then all that Paul taught on the subject must be rejected as false or the reasonable conclusion would be that because of the overwhelming evidence of scripture by Jesus and Paul that we should not consider the words you quoted as meaning that it was water that saved. Acts is a transition book. Noting also that the father of faith, Abraham, as it is recorded in Scripture, believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness and all who believe, have faith in Christ are consider as he was "saved", justified in God's eyes and never any H2O to seal the deal. Due to the VAST number of passages in God's word that do not indicate that any works are necessary for salvation, it is only reasonable that we do not understand what you quote from Acts, as it reads on its face, as necessary for salvation, but the preponderance of evidence in the letters and by Jesus himself is evidence that water can't save, by God's Grace Alone Through Faith Alone, to God's Glory Alone. Blessing to you, we must respectfully disagree.
Jesus said that the Father's work is for the lost to believe. On a number of occasions, the word "obey" is used as a synonym for faith. When "obey" is used in its context that way it does not mean work. Obeying the gospel is a willful decision of the mind to trust in Christ, not a physical act which would be working. Salvation is a free gift and a gift cannot be earned or worked for. God's Blessings to you.
The Gospel of John is clear in its context. The purpose of John's Gospel is salvation by faith in Christ, believing in Him. The content of John's Gospel is its context. Content is context which equals purpose. Salvation is only by faith in Christ along by God's grace alone to the glory of God alone. Anything added to believing is a work, we have noting to offer Him, we must accept His work and never add to it, By Grace Alone Through Faith Alone To the Glory of God Alone.
I agree that there is nothing magical about the water. H2O does not wash our sins away. We obey God by being baptized, then during being dunked under water God performs circumcision of the heart by spiritually cutting away sin from our heart with Christ’s blood. (Colossians 2:11,12).
Only Christ’s blood washes away sin- therefore only Christ’s blood saves. But baptism saves by putting us into contact with His blood. And without faith baptism is just getting wet, so there are many things that lead us to Christ’s life-saving blood, but only baptism puts you in contact with it. We all know that only those in Christ will be saved, and the Bible only says one way to get into Christ- we are baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3). And “If we join Him like this in His death, then we will also join Him in His resurrection.” Romans 6:4
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Sounds like someone is leading you into the oneness or baptismal regeneration view of salvation. You quote one verse out of a historical book of the Bible, you can get doctrine from the book of Acts, but read the epistles will give you more instruction in doctrine. The best way to establish a doctrine is if you find it in the OT, Gospels and Epistles. Using one verse to form a doctrine is not the best way to follow what Jesus through the Apostles taught us.
Acts 2:38 is one verse that has been misused by many that lead some astray, look at what Peter preaches in Acts 3:11-12, 16-21 “Now as the lame man who was healed held on to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the porch which is called Solomon’s, greatly amazed.12 So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?……16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers.18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,20 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began…..26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Peter says nothing about baptism here, he only says to repent and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out or the remission of sins. And we see the result in Acts 4:1-4
“Now as they spoke to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees came upon them,2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in custody until the next day, for it was already evening 4 However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.”
Notice the result of Peter"s preaching in Acts 2:41 “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.” Then we have Acts 4:4 “many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.”
No mention of baptism, yet many belieded and were added to the number of the Church. If you read on in Acts there are many other places were baptism is not mentioned, but there is always a response to the preaching some times they were bd reaction but there was a reaction
Acts 2:38 is one verse that has been misused by many that lead some astray, look at what Peter preaches in Acts 3:11-12, 16-21 “Now as the lame man who was healed held on to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the porch which is called Solomon’s, greatly amazed.12 So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?……16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers.18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,20 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began…..26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Peter says nothing about baptism here, he only says to repent and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out or the remission of sins. And we see the result in Acts 4:1-4
“Now as they spoke to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees came upon them,2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in custody until the next day, for it was already evening 4 However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.”
Notice the result of Peter"s preaching in Acts 2:41 “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.” Then we have Acts 4:4 “many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.”
No mention of baptism, yet many belieded and were added to the number of the Church. If you read on in Acts there are many other places were baptism is not mentioned, but there is always a response to the preaching some times they were bd reaction but there was a reaction
Peter preached to those who had been saved by faith into the coming Messiah, but had not yet been identified with Jesus through immersion which is an identifier and outward sign of the inward conversion. It is to the N.T. what circumcision was to the old......a picture or painting as an identifier and states to the world that thru faith the old man is dead, buried with Christ and you have been resurrected a new creation in Christ Jesus...Peter is preaching to saved people and telling them to be identified with Christ through immersion....nothing more nothing less!
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
We can either have faith in what Jesus did for us or we can try and do it ourselves. Baptism is great, living a "Christian" lifestyle is great, being obedient is great. None of those things save us, ONLY Jesus saves.
We can either have faith in what Jesus did for us or we can try and do it ourselves. Baptism is great, living a "Christian" lifestyle is great, being obedient is great. None of those things save us, ONLY Jesus saves.
This is not true! In the KJV (all editions!), thee, thine, and thou are singular forms; ye, you, and your are plural forms. Ye is used in the nominative case; you is used in the oblique cases.
This is not true!
Acts 2:38. Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς· μετανοήσατε, [φησίν,] καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος. (NA28)
Acts 2:38. Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (NRSV)
This is not true!
Acts 2:38. Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς· μετανοήσατε, [φησίν,] καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος. (NA28)
Acts 2:38. Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (NRSV)