GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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Hebrews 10:1-9

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.'" First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them"—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second.
Hebrews 7-10 is speaking specifically about the Levitical Priesthood that Abraham didn't have. It explains the New Covenant as the "changing" of the Priesthood, and is showing Jews why it is no longer lawful to perform Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins. Jesus is now our High Priest.

This was a big deal for the religion of their time who have been performing these rituals for centuries.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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If you preach that "under the Law" means death as it is intended, then you are either under the Law or under Grace. (Dead or Alive)

But if you further the false preaching that "under the Law" means under the requirement to "Love God with all your heart", then you reject Grace, because Jesus said:

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Not being under the law doesn't mean a rejection of Grace.

Being under the law is a rejection of Grace. You get one or the other. Its pretty simple.

If you place requirements on what WE have to do then you have placed yourself under law.


The Law has requirements, you know that right? One of the requirements is to Love God.


There are requirements in Grace too. Most of them being to stop leaning on your own understanding of what you think are requirements and lean on the Lord Jesus Christ instead.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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Not being under the law doesn't mean a rejection of Grace.

Being under the law is a rejection of Grace. You get one or the other. Its pretty simple.

If you place requirements on what WE have to do then you have placed yourself under law.


The Law has requirements, you know that right? One of the requirements is to Love God.


There are requirements in Grace too. Most of them being to stop leaning on your own understanding of what you think are requirements and lean on the Lord Jesus Christ instead.
So what does it mean to "Lean on Jesus"? Does it mean to "Hear" what He instructs, then reject it? Or does it mean to "Hear" what He instructs, and do it. Like Paul said.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

I place requirements on nothing GP. But Jesus clearly does. If you choose to "Reject" His Instructions, are you not "Rejecting His Grace"?

He did say "IF you love Me".
 
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Great points. :cool:
Trying to to keep the Sabbath in a certain way because you believe it’s a sin not to, is trying to be justified by the law.
JPT
It is not about trying to keep the Sabbath in a certain way it is about BELIEVING and FOLLOWING Jesus because you LOVE him. If there is no love then your FAITH has no FRUIT. If your tree has no FRUIT it will be cast down and thrown into the fire. Ony those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD are his Sheep and God's sheep hear his voice.

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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well it's the New Moon.

if Paul is saying exactly the opposite of what Colossians 2 very apparently and clearly seems for all intents and purposes to say, and if several of the people in this thread are right, i'm in danger of hell if i don't observe it, and properly - and that damnation totally regardless of anything Jesus has been able to do to save me.

so what do i do?
you gonna save a person from death or what?

and don't give me some malarkey about 'o they made their own new moons, it isn't the actual new moon festival he's talking about'

you can't make up a different 'new moon' day. there's one moon. it's in the sky. all see it.
if sabbath, then new moon. the 4th day is before the 7th.

help?
or leave me to die in my 'perceived sins' by your hypocrisy.
 
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well it's the New Moon.

if Paul is saying exactly the opposite of what Colossians 2 very apparently and clearly seems for all intents and purposes to say, and if several of the people in this thread are right, i'm in danger of hell if i don't observe it, and properly - and that damnation totally regardless of anything Jesus has been able to do to save me.

so what do i do?
you gonna save a person from death or what?

and don't give me some malarkey about 'o they made their own new moons, it isn't the actual new moon festival he's talking about'

you can't make up a different 'new moon' day. there's one moon. it's in the sky. all see it.
if sabbath, then new moon. the 4th day is before the 7th.

help?
or leave me to die in my 'perceived sins' by your hypocrisy.
Hello friend, you seem a little mixed up please read the OP I think it will clear up any misunderstanding you may have. You do not need to follow new moons. We are only saved by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING the Word of God. Only the BELIVERS and FOLLOWERS of GOD's WORD are his people. UNBELIEVERS have not part in the KINGDOM of Heaven. Only God's Word is true and is why we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who loves us.

..........


God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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With 3,585 replies and 33,162 views, looks like Sabbath-keeping must be the ultimate commandment in the Bible!
 
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With 3,585 replies and 33,162 views, looks like Sabbath-keeping must be the ultimate commandment in the Bible!
Hi Nehmiah nice to see you and welcome here. LOVE is the one the fulffils them all. The 4th one is the forgotten one that God asks us to REMEMBER that most have forgotten.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Hi Nehmiah nice to see you and welcome here. LOVE is the one the fulffils them all. The 4th one is the forgotten one that God asks us to REMEMBER that most have forgotten.
gentiles can't forget what they were never given.
 
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gentiles can't forget what they were never given.
There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with you on who Isreal is in the NEW Covenant. God's LAW (10 commandments) Is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and the very standard of the OLD and NEW Covenant and the JUDGMENT to come.

Who is God's Israel?


Rom 11:16

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Resurrection from the dead....

Lev 23:10-22 Feast of Firstfruits (Shadow fulfilled in the resurrection of Jesus)

links to....

1Co 15
20,
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Co 15
23,
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Abiding in Christ for the living branches that are now grafted in (Gentiles and Jews; are now God's Israel).....

Trees represent people (Mark 8:22-24; Jer 17:8) .....

Romans 11
16,
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17,
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, <Gentile Believer> wert graffed in among them <Jews>, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree <Christ>;
18, Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19, Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23,
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24, For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25,
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26, And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27, For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

BELIEVING Gentiles are nows grafted in with BELIEVING Jews who are now God's Israel.....

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel............................................

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........................

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

God's Israel...............

Galatians 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........................

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

If you disagree please make your case and present your scriptures. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who loves us. Tommorrow may be too late...

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Romans 10 links to Romans 11. Romans 10 , Paul talks extensively about salvation by grace through faith. no mention of Sabbath. in fact, in v.4 , Paul states that Christ is the end of the law to those who believe.

we do not need all this conjoined out-of-context Scripture, we need straight forward reading of God's Word.

so, there you are. you ( and ellen white ) are refuted.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Nobody?
Not one person can dare to instruct me on how to avoid sin on the new moon?

Y'all tell me I'll be condemned to hell for not keeping the Law of the Sinai Covenant, but you won't lift a finger to help me with the heavy burden you lay. Why does that sound familiar.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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With 3,585 replies and 33,162 views, looks like Sabbath-keeping must be the ultimate commandment in the Bible!
To be fair the great bulk of this thread is one man copy pasting the same bad exegesis over and over and over and over
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Abraham is not an Israelite.

How did Abraham know the difference between good and evil since Abraham never had the Law, given 500 years later? Abraham grew up among Molech and Baal worshipers. That's the law Abraham knew. Yet He knew good from evil, and he believed God when He told him to move away. All without any commandments. Abraham was given circumcision, not sabbath. Yet Abraham knew right from wrong and sin from righteousness. And Abraham - on the basis of faith alone - was declared righteous in the sight of God. All without law. It's the promise, which remains. Abraham enters rest, but those who did not, did not because of unbelief.
 

stillness

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Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley

We humans have learned to hate ourselves by the worlds standards and our old nature's standards. We are our own worst enemies when we don't see the truth and instead attribute our "feelings and misinformation" to what we think God "feels" for us. And our thinking apart from His grace and truth is very faulty and totally unreliable.

Yet God so loved the world. God so loved us while we were yet sinners via being dead in our trespasses and sins.,before we were made alive unto God in Christ. That is a hard pill to swallow because our old way of thinking is so much a part of what we once were and have yet to unlearn.
have no trouble being exposed
In this matter of repentance too, we humans think we must hate ourselves and therefore cry and wallow and condemn ourselves in order to prove to God (and ourselves) how much we are willing to pay for forgiveness. And all the while Jesus totally paid for that forgiveness. So instead of us leaning on Jesus full atonement (payment in full) ., we try to add to it with interest by calling unclean what Jesus has already made clean. Somehow believing it pleases God if we don't feel worthy in Christ alone.

That is so self righteous. I've done it for years. When I began walking in His righteousness and stopped seeking to establish my own righteousness., that is when the Holy Spirit really began teaching by grace through faith.
The above quote is not from me as you can see:

"The law was given through Moses; Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ." The Law is not what Jesus brought us, it's not Grace and it's not truth. Acts 7:53 sais the law was given by angels." Ezekiel 20:25 confirms it's not the truth of God, and was to expose them as sinners. Dictating others to live up to our expectations exposes us as sinners, I have no trouble being exposed knowing I am a sinner turning to the Lord for help: for Grace and Truth. Love can't be commanded. "If you Love me obey my commandment's," Implies having the Holy spirit enabling us to Love and obey the Commandment of the new covenant. "Let us not judge one another any more," is one of the new covenant commandments you omit for your tradition. Jesus did not come to judge the world but to save the world, those in the new covenant are to "Go in My Name.."
 
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Romans 10 links to Romans 11. Romans 10 , Paul talks extensively about salvation by grace through faith. no mention of Sabbath. in fact, in v.4 , Paul states that Christ is the end of the law to those who believe.
Christ is the end of the LAW indeed but not the way you interpret it my friend. God's LAW shows us who we are and points to the Savior. It does not mean God's LAW is abolished it means that Chirst is our Savior from SIN.

we do not need all this conjoined out-of-context Scripture, we need straight forward reading of God's Word. so, there you are. you ( and ellen white ) are refuted.
All you have shown is you do not know the scriptures my dear gb9. This is sad for you. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. These are the things that defile a man. Unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom that he has prepared for those that follow and love him.

Truly truly I say unto you unless a man is born again he shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. He that commits sin is of the devil because he has neither seen him nor known him.

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Hi Nehmiah nice to see you and welcome here. LOVE is the one the fulffils them all. The 4th one is the forgotten one that God asks us to REMEMBER that most have forgotten.
LGF... GOD be exalted and praised and you my friend work tirelessly... keep fighting the GOOD fight my dear.

The Lord of Sabbath teaches us how to Keep the 4th in Love and Truth.. Lawful to do good indeed.

GOD Bless.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Christ is the end of the LAW indeed but not the way you interpret it my friend. God's LAW shows us who we are and points to the Savior. It does not mean God's LAW is abolished it means that Chirst is our Savior from SIN.



All you have shown is you do not know the scriptures my dear gb9. This is sad for you. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. These are the things that defile a man. Unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom that he has prepared for those that follow and love him.

Truly truly I say unto you unless a man is born again he shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. He that commits sin is of the devil because he has neither seen him nor known him.

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
and thus the mind of someone who has made an idol out of a day. " Christ is the end of the law " and if one confesses with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believes in their heart that God raised Him from the dead, he will be saved really means keep the Sabbath. ( it does not, by the way, Sabbath keeping saves no one)

all kinds of N.T. Scripture about getting saved. none connecting Sabbath to it.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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LGF... GOD be exalted and praised and you my friend work tirelessly... keep fighting the GOOD fight my dear.

The Lord of Sabbath teaches us how to Keep the 4th in Love and Truth.. Lawful to do good indeed.

GOD Bless.
as tirelessly as he ( or anyone ) works to spread false doctrine, I ( as God gives me the strength and knowledge ), I will work to stop it.

ellen white's false gospel should not be encouraged to be spread.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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posthuman,
re: "Abraham never had the Law...And Abraham - on the basis of faith alone - was declared righteous in the sight of God. All without law."

Genesis 26:5 seems to disagree with you - "...Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."