Has sin been paid for?

Nehemiah6 · Feb 9, 2018

That is about the most ridiculous conclusion one could draw from the finished work of Christ. And to impose Universalism on this is even more ludicrous. Universalism teaches that all WILL be saved whether they obey the Gospel or not. The Bible teaches that only those who obey the Gospel will be saved, but all may be saved if all will obey the Gospel. BIG DIFFERENCE.

To automatically bring Universalism into this shows how Calvinistic brainwashing can prevent a person from arriving at the truth. It is time to give up such ideas and go back to what Scripture actually reveals -- not what we imagine it reveals.

SovereignGrace · Feb 9, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

That is about the most ridiculous conclusion one could draw from the finished work of Christ. And to impose Universalism on this is even more ludicrous. Universalism teaches that all WILL be saved whether they obey the Gospel or not. The Bible teaches that only those who obey the Gospel will be saved, but all may be saved if all will obey the Gospel. BIG DIFFERENCE.

To automatically bring Universalism into this shows how Calvinistic brainwashing can prevent a person to arriving at the truth. It is time to give up such ideas and go back to what Scripture actually reveals -- not what we imagine it reveals.

I apologize. I foolishly took everybody off ignore to start over. I obviously acted foolishly.

followjesus · Feb 9, 2018

MatthewG said:

Jesus addressed the matter of Our Heavenly Fathers forgiveness. This is the parable Jesus taught in the Gospel.

matthew 18 " Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

That is what Jesus , who paid for our forgiveness, taught in the Gospel of the Kingdom.

it seems according to Jesus,( the author of salvation) Our sins are forgiven, but if we then Go out and do not forgive others, we will be appointed to pay what we cannot as we do unto others, it will be done unto us.

Johnny_B · Feb 9, 2018

MatthewG said:

If someone has not clearifies what is being said to you. There are some of us that view Scripture and the death of Christ as a definate act that left no opening for man to twart God plan for His people. That the Lord had a definate plan and that the Father is righteous in that He did not judge Jesus for sins that would noty be forgiven, that would be unjust. When you say that Jesus died for the sins of the world, do you think that the Father judged Jesus for sins that would not be forgiven?

That would mean that the people that are judged to eternal falmes of fire, are in hell for sins that Jesus paid for and the Father judged Jesus for those sins making the Father unjust and not having a definate plan making this verses a lie.

Acts 2:23 “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.”

Romans 5:8 “but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

I Thessalomians 5:9-10 “For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.”

Who are the "us" in these verses, are they referring to the world or to those that that are God's people or is Paul associating himself with the people of God or the world? Does world when speaking of salvation, does it mean every single person that ever lived or does it mean what Revelation 5:9-10, 7:9-10, 11:9-10, 13:6-7 and 14:6 interprets the world to be.

“And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scrolland to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,and they shall reign on the earth.”

“After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

“For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb,10 and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.”

“Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.”

“Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people.”

World does not always mean the entire inhabitants of the world past, present and future, John 18:20 “Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.”

Did Jesus speak to the world of that time? Of course not, here the world means those that came to Jerusalem during the passover from every nation, because all Jews had to come to Jerusalem to observe the passover and they were from many different nation, this is why Jesus said He spoke to the world. These same men that Jesus spoke to openly, also heard the apostles receive the gift of tounges.

Acts 2:5 “Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.” Pentecost was 50 days fter the passover, so many stayed in Jerusalem for both feasts. Every nation and world mean the same thing here.

p_rehbein · Feb 9, 2018

Jesus certainly paid the price for all mankind and their sins for all time on Calvary's Cross.......HOWEVER....for the precious blood of Christ (which is the power that cleanses mankind of their sins) to be applied, man MUST ASK......

Knowing some will begin to gnash their teeth, we must remember FREE WILL.

The price IS PAID, but there will be many, many who refuse.....and, thus, hell will have many, many citizens for all eternity.

notuptome · Feb 9, 2018

p_rehbein said:

The blood of Christ is wholly sufficient, even one drop has the power to cleanse every sin from every sinner and never be exhausted. Yet men because of their free will which is corrupted by sin will refuse to be saved. Man does not want to humble himself and give his self righteousness up as worthless. Mans free will cannot over come the sovereign will of God. To be saved one must receive Christ.

Mans free will has limits and when it goes beyond the immense mercy of God it ends in disaster.

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Magenta · Feb 9, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

That is about the most ridiculous conclusion one could draw from the finished work of Christ. And to impose Universalism on this is even more ludicrous. Universalism teaches that all WILL be saved whether they obey the Gospel or not. The Bible teaches that only those who obey the Gospel will be saved, but all may be saved if all will obey the Gospel. BIG DIFFERENCE.

To automatically bring Universalism into this shows how Calvinistic brainwashing can prevent a person from arriving at the truth. It is time to give up such ideas and go back to what Scripture actually reveals -- not what we imagine it reveals.

Calvinists bluster when reminded that man's repentance is a necessary component of salvation.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2018

MatthewG said:

If he did not pay for ALL of the sin, WHoever comments the sin he did not pay for are without hope. They will be left to pay for their own sin, which is spiritual death. For all eternity,

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

I guess you could say this, WHat it requires is faith, However, Faith in God will never occur apart from repentance. So in this sense, yes your right.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2018

SovereignGrace said:

that is not true, Because he did not pay for thge sin of rejecting (unbelief) his gospel.

The sin is paid for. That way the offer is available to all. But those who do not believe are condemned, because they commited the sin he did nto pay for.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2018

Musicus said:

Who is teaching that sin is ok? People had a war with hypergrace in cc for over a year, and they NEVER proved that these people say it is ok to sin.

I think we need to be careful before we start accusing.

Saying one will still sin (not reach sinless perfection) is not saying it is ok to sin, it is admitting we still must walk forward because we have not made it yet.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2018

notuptome said:

Amen, Adam had it all, He had things no other man who ever lived (accept Christ) ever understood or experienced, Yet he knowingly gave it up because he thought he knew better than God.

MatthewG · Feb 9, 2018

Okay, so the topic was about did Jesus Christ pay for sin?

The answer was...

1 John 2: 2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of the whole world (everyone).

So Jesus Christ died on the cross... His Father was pleased, at one moment (atonement), because the price of sin had been paid for by His Son, and this only happened once, on the cross.

The price of sin has been paid for, for everyone.

Romans 5: 8 and God doth commend His own love to us, that, in our being still sinners, Christ did die for us;

Even while we were still sinners, Christ had already died for us.

1 Timothy 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing.

Some people just have had yet believed on Him, and His Father, but as we know God is good. I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, and God are even near, to the unbelievers just as well as the believers, because it rains on the good and bad.

God bless.

Nehemiah6 · Feb 9, 2018

SovereignGrace said:

I'm sorry if that post offended you. We just need to be extremely careful that we do not misrepresent the finished work of Christ. There are many visitors who just lurk and one never knows who can be misled.

Also shutting off those who disagree is not the best way to discuss matters.

SovereignGrace · Feb 10, 2018

Magenta said:

Show us where one Calvinist has stated such. IIRC, it was FlyingDove who openly stated that repentance was not necessary to being saved, and myself, preacher4truth, and maybe some others on here, called him on it. But you didn't see that.

Look, Jesus plainly said in Luke 13:3 & Luke 13:5 But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Here's where I disagree with the non-Cals. Yes, repentance is necessary to being saved. Now, can you drop that from your vocabulary, please? We repent, but repentance does not resonate from us, but is a gift of God.

God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.[Acts 5:31] Ppl will say that was God doing this for Israel only. But nay, When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18] So God has indeed granted repentance to both the Jews and Gentiles. Then we can read Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?[Romans 2:4] Then I will close with Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

So repentance is necessary for salvation, but that ability to repent comes as a gift of God.

OneFaith · Feb 10, 2018

Jesus died to give the whole world the opportunity to be saved. God’s grace (Christ’s blood) washes away every sin of those who are currently in Him (baptized into His church (body) and refuse to live in sin any longer.

SovereignGrace · Feb 10, 2018

Salvation is an opportunity and not a covenant. Wow. And why do I wonder why our churches in the USA are in the mess they're in now?

preacher4truth · Feb 10, 2018

SovereignGrace said:

Show us where one Calvinist has stated such. IIRC, it was FlyingDove who openly stated that repentance was not necessary to being saved, and myself, preacher4truth, and maybe some others on here, called him on it. But you didn't see that.

Look, Jesus plainly said in Luke 13:3 & Luke 13:5 But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Here's where I disagree with the non-Cals. Yes, repentance is necessary to being saved. Now, can you drop that from your vocabulary, please? We repent, but repentance does not resonate from us, but is a gift of God.

God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.[Acts 5:31] Ppl will say that was God doing this for Israel only. But nay, When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18] So God has indeed granted repentance to both the Jews and Gentiles. Then we can read Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?[Romans 2:4] Then I will close with Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

So repentance is necessary for salvation, but that ability to repent comes as a gift of God.

She doesn't know what in the world she's talking about.

Bro play her off, she's been spreading that false information a long while. Anyone with sense knows what she's saying isn't true and it's not worth arguing with her.

SovereignGrace · Feb 10, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

And this is not true. It was like you said ppl don't go to hell because of sin, but rejecting the Christ. Rejecting the Christ is a sin, so ppl go to hell based solely on the fact they died in their sins.

And if the sin is paid for, then God's wrath is satisfied. If His wrath is satisfied, then there's none to mete out on the day of judgment. Why can't you see this?

SovereignGrace · Feb 10, 2018

preacher4truth said:

William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, must be some sort of modern day prophet, as he aptly stated...“The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

Those two I bolded and underlined are on full display on here. Ppl say the OT saints were saved w/o the indwelling of God's Spirit. That's one of the thing Brother Booth rightly feared would happen. FGT is the other he nailed.

Has sin been paid for?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member