GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
so, a man writes a letter, you regularly cite part of that letter, then when the man , same man, explains what he is referring to, you dismiss it, because you are only interested in the part of the letter that you can bend toward Sabbath keeping.

John was not referring to the Ten, he said believe in the name of the Son, and love one another. not Sabbath.
Same with Hebrews 10............
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Don't forget the 'buts' (But I say unto you.)

Here are the first three you gave:

Mat 5:21-22
(21) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
(22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27-28
(27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
(28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 5:33-34
(33) Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
(34) But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Here Jesus is strengthening the law. Below are fifty of Christ's commandments and as far as I can tell, that is the sum total. The commandments of Christ are much harder to keep than the old ones, and they lead to a more harmonious society. What has happened to the other 563 including those that say to stone or otherwise kill? They are GONE.

If anyone professes to be a Christian, then they need to follow Jesus and not Moses. Are you going to play basketball to the rules of baseball? Of course not.

Below are the 50 Commands of Christ and please, let us have no more confusion. Christians follow Jesus and Him alone.

1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27,
John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10,
12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying,
fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew
9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16.
(Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28
(Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9,
13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38
and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew
18:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also
Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all
nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49


50 Commands of Jesus - Practical Bible study - 15 lessons - What they mean today
Again,

We have all been influenced by the religion we are born into. Jesus specifically warned to take heed of "Many" who come in His name. You are relying for your religious instructions the very people who Jesus and His Apostles warned against.

Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You didn't consider this verse or the implications of it. What did the Pharisees do? They taught for "Doctrines" the Commandments of men and had been doing so for centuries. Jesus is having to re-teach everyone as to what the Gospel is.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Because the Catholic church and her daughters preach against God's Laws you automatically assume, as does the web site you posted, that "Those of old time" is referring to Moses. But Jesus didn't have a problem mentioning Moses name, if He was referring to Moses He would have said "You have heard it said from Moses". But he didn't, He wasn't talking about Moses as you and so "Many" who come in His Name preach. He is talking about the Levite Priests, the Pharisees, who had created their own Law and had omitted the "weightier matters "in the Law" like mercy and judgment. Everybody didn't have a bible in their house like you and I do. Unless they took notes from the scribes and studied, they would only understand what the Pharisees told them. And Jesus was very clear that they were liars when it came to the Word of God.

Jesus set them straight regarding the Laws and Instructions He created before becoming a man.

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

When did He say this truth?

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

In fact, if you go through the "But I say" you will find that Jesus either said it or inspired it to be said in the Law and Prophets long before he came to earth as a man.

He wasn't teaching a different Gospel than Moses or the God of the Bible as you preach, He was teaching a different Gospel than the Mainstream Preachers of His Time. They are the "Them of old time" if you can accept this. The question is, which is more important to you, Your religious traditions and doctrines, or the truth from the Word of God?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
As Jesus said, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(Mat 5:17-18 KJV)

To fulfill is do to the uttermost. To show the full extant of what GOD had wanted from the beginning. That is the reason for the buts. To magnify the Life in which GOD had intended from the beginning. A life in HIM and HE in us. For it is HE that wants to work in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

The Law is pertaining to what sin is. That would include those in the Decalogue and the Book of the Law (Moses). This is brought out in the post to which you responded.
To fulfill is do to the uttermost. To show the full extant of what GOD had wanted from the beginning. That is the reason for the buts. To magnify the Life in which GOD had intended from the beginning. A life in HIM and HE in us. For it is HE that wants to work in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
This is the sum total:

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang (depend) all the law and the prophets.
(Mat 22:36-40 KJV)

In other words everything in the Decalogue and those laws contained in the Book of the Law that deal with what sin is depend on us Loving GOD and our fellow man with all our heart, mind and soul. For GOD is LOVE and as HE is so are we in this world. For it is He THAT works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. With out this LOVE; Christ in us, moving and empowering us with HIS heart and mind we are obeying in our own efforts devoid of the Spirit; devoid of GOD; LOVE. For HE doeth the Work.

Those laws that pertained to when we sinned, and the Holy Days and Sabbaths that related to them are done away with. As are those that made Israel distinct from others. For we are now one in Christ.

Those of GOD never followed Moses they followed GOD through what HE gave Moses to pen.
Jesus fulfilled the law by never breaking it, by which means he conquered sin and death so that all might be saved who believe in him. This is the Gospel.

What does it mean to fulfil the law?
Fulfil:- "πληρο´ω G4137 satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply."
Jesus, accomplished, completed, and ended the law as the Jews wrongly understood it with all their ceremonies and holy days etc.

As you say: – Those laws that pertained to when we sinned, and the Holy Days and Sabbaths that related to them are done away with. As are those that made Israel distinct from others. For we are now one in Christ.
For the ending of the law. Read Luke 16:16. It marks the end of ceremonial ritual as practised by the Jews, and the beginning of the Gospel message.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.(Luk 16:16 KJV)

God bless.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Again,

We have all been influenced by the religion we are born into. Jesus specifically warned to take heed of "Many" who come in His name. You are relying for your religious instructions the very people who Jesus and His Apostles warned against.....

He wasn't teaching a different Gospel than Moses or the God of the Bible as you preach, He was teaching a different Gospel than the Mainstream Preachers of His Time. They are the "Them of old time" if you can accept this. The question is, which is more important to you, Your religious traditions and doctrines, or the truth from the Word of God?
I am offended by these false personal accusations.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Jesus fulfilled the law by never breaking it, by which means he conquered sin and death so that all might be saved who believe in him. This is the Gospel.

What does it mean to fulfil the law?
Jesus, accomplished, completed, and ended the law as the Jews wrongly understood it with all their ceremonies and holy days etc.



For the ending of the law. Read Luke 16:16. It marks the end of ceremonial ritual as practised by the Jews, and the beginning of the Gospel message.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.(Luk 16:16 KJV)

God bless.
Unless you read one more verse.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
carnal has some meaning Dear, I already quote what carnal are from meriam dictionary
carnal not only mean sinfull but also mean non spiritual. You may worship the Lord in carnal way, mean appear to be worship the Lord, sing and praising the Lord with Melodious voice, not working oN sabbath, but drive a car, mean kindle fire, but his heart is not.
Your problem Jackson is not your trying to use an English dictionary on a Greek Word. How can you be not spiritual and LOVE as he first LOVED US when God knows that we do not have the LOVE of God in us unless he puts it in our heart to LOVE?

SIN will keep all those who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
Is it hard ,or impossible for a true believer to identify a non- believer that claims to know God?
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Is it hard ,or impossible for a true believer to identify a non- believer that claims to know God?
Good question, God's Word is very clear who his people are and a lamp in a dark place.

Matthew 7
16,
You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17, Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19, Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20, Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.
21, Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
23, And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2

3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4,
He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

What is the FRUIT of one who professes FAITH? OBEDIENCE or DISOBEDIENCE? Therefore by their FRUITS you shall know them.

1 John 3

6, WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: whoever SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWS HIM.
7, Little children, LET KNOW ONE DECEIVE YOU: he that DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, even as he is righteous.8, HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10,
IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

SIN is the fruit of the DEVIL and grows on those who follow him. Obedience is the fruit of FAITH in those who follow God and the GIFT of salvation to those who BELIEVE.

Romans 6
16,
Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?

WHO ARE GOD'S SAINTS?

Revelation 12: [17], And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: [12] HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus. Yep if you are still in your SINS you are not on God's side or do you know him.
No need for confusion

..............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Last edited:
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Yep....and there is such a thing as context....Hebrews 10 and the context thereof does not support your conclusion no matter how much you try to twist it to fit friend....
I see, so please show us how Hebrews 10:26-27 in your view does not mean....

26,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, 27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.Surrounding context...

Hebrews 10
13,
From now on expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14, For by one offering he has perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15, Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, said the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17, And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18, Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19, Having therefore, brothers, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20, By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21, And having an high priest over the house of God;
22, Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23, Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24, And let us consider one another to provoke to love and to good works:
25, Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

............

It seems in your view DC, Paul is lying when he says if we continue in SIN there remains no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries?

HOW CAN WE KNOW IF WE KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4,
He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If your faith has no FRUIT your tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire. SIN will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

.........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Your problem Jackson is not your trying to use an English dictionary on a Greek Word. How can you be not spiritual and LOVE as he first LOVED US when God knows that we do not have the LOVE of God in us unless he puts it in our heart to LOVE?

SIN will keep all those who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
To my knowledge, carnal is english.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Unless you read one more verse.

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
True. Jesus went on to say: "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." (Luk 21:33)

Jesus, "The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father" (Isa 9:6) the "King of the Jews" (Mat 2:2 Mat 27:37) gave Moses the Law that men added to, (the Mitzvot). Jesus, who is "God with us" Mat 1:23, amended and strengthened God's law, and HIS words and His Law shall never fail or pass away even though the earth will.
 
Last edited:
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
True. Jesus went on to say: "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." (Luk 21:33)
Nope well that is not true at all. What version of the bible are you using? You have changed the scripture meaning from Law (Greek; nomos) to word something the scripture does not say.

New International Version
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

New Living Translation
But that doesn't mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God's law to be overturned.

English Standard Version
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Berean Study Bible
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

Berean Literal Bible
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

New American Standard Bible
"But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

King James Bible
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Christian Standard Bible
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter in the law to drop out.

Contemporary English Version
Heaven and earth will disappear before the smallest letter of the Law does.

Good News Translation
But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest detail of the Law to be done away with.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter in the law to drop out.

International Standard Version
However, it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one stroke of a letter in the Law to be dropped.

NET Bible
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tiny stroke of a letter in the law to become void.

New Heart English Bible
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the Law to become void.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“But it is easier for Heaven and earth to pass away than for one symbol of The Law to pass away.”

New American Standard 1977
“But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass than one tittle of the law to fail.

King James 2000 Bible
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one dot of the law to fail.

American King James Version
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one pronunciation mark of the law to fail.

American Standard Version
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tittle of the law to fall.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fall.

Darby Bible Translation
But it is easier that the heaven and the earth should pass away than that one tittle of the law should fail.

English Revised Version
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tittle of the law to fall.

Webster's Bible Translation
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Weymouth New Testament
But it is easier for earth and sky to pass away than for one smallest detail of the Law to fall to the ground.

World English Bible
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the law to fall.

Young's Literal Translation
and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall.

Changing God's Word to something it is NOT saying does nto look good for you PS.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Last edited:
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Originally Posted by Shamah


Unless you read one more verse.

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Luke 21:33 Multilingual: Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Thats fine but your quoting a different scripture to the one that was sent you by Shamah which is Luke 16:16-17?


King James Bible
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Even the scripture you quote in Luke 24 only supports God's LAW (10 Commandments) never passing away as the 10 Commandments were spoken by God himself. Therefore as you have rightly pointed out; his words will NOT pass away (Luke 21:33). God's 10 Comamndments will not pass away

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Last edited:

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
What does it mean to fulfil the law?

Fulfil:- "πληρο´ω G4137 satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply."
That my friend is excerpt from a dictionary. Simply defining the word is not enough at times. Context and grammar need to be considered also. If the Moral was to be of no consequence due to Jesus completing it then why would he go to expound on it.

Here are some excerpts from a few scholars in reference to Matt 5:17. Who as far as I now do not keep the Sabbath. Well Lightfoot might.

The BDAG cites:

Mt 5:17; depending on how one prefers to interpret the context, πληρόω is understood here either as fulfill=do, carry out, or as bring to full expression=show it forth in its true mng., or as fill up=complete

From Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible:

Matthew 5:17


Think not that I am come ... - Our Saviour was just entering on his work. It was important for him to state what he came to do. By his setting up to be a teacher in opposition to the scribes and Pharisees, some might charge him with an intention to destroy their law, and to abolish the customs of the nation. He therefore told them that he did not come for that end, but really to fulfill or accomplish what was in the law and the prophets.
To destroy - To abrogate; to deny their divine authority; to set people free from the obligation to obey them. “The law.” The five books of Moses called the law. See the notes at Luk_24:44.
The Prophets - The books which the prophets wrote. These two divisions here seem to comprehend the Old Testament, and Jesus says that he came not to do away or destroy the authority of the Old Testament.
But to fulfil - To complete the design; to fill up what was predicted; to accomplish what was intended in them. The word “fulfill” also means sometimes “to teach” or “to inculcate,”


Robertson's Word Pictures:

Matthew 5:17


I came not to destroy, but to fulfil (ouk ēlthon katalusai alla plērōsai). The verb “destroy” means to “loosen down” as of a house or tent (2Co_5:1).Fulfil is to fill full. This Jesus did to the ceremonial law which pointed to him and the moral law he kept. “He came to fill the law, to reveal the full depth of meaning that it was intended to hold” (McNeile).

Lightfoots commentary of the NT from the Talmud and Hebraica:

....III. He meets with this prejudice here and so onwards by many arguments, as namely, 1. That he abolished not the law when he abolished traditions; for therefore he came that he might fulfil the law. 2. That he asserts, that "not one iota shall perish from the law." 3. That he brought in an observation of the law much more pure and excellent than the Pharisaical observation of it was: which he confirms even to the end of the chapter, explaining the law according to its genuine and spiritual sense.



Jesus, accomplished, completed, and ended the law as the Jews wrongly understood it with all their ceremonies and holy days etc.
To fulfill is do to the uttermost. To show the full extant of what GOD had wanted from the beginning. TO magnify the Life in which GOD had intended from the beginning. A life in HIM and HE in us. True righteousness.

It was not their ceremonies and holy days, they were GOD'S. They misunderstood nothing in regards to these. Their sinning was the issue. It was not their understanding of the ceremonies and holy days. The ceremonies and holy days were instituted by GOD through Moses due to their sinning for the most part.




For the ending of the law. Read Luke 16:16. It marks the end of ceremonial ritual as practised by the Jews, and the beginning of the Gospel message.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.(Luk 16:16 KJV)

God bless.
Weren't we in Matt 5? I would like to finish there first; but whatever. The context to the passage you quoted is in reference to the unjust steward. Take a look at the previous verses and pray on it. Let me know what you see. What was the parable really taking into account?

Couple that with, "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."(Luk 16:17 KJV)

This is being said is in reference to the Moral Law; the Decalogue and those contained in the Book of the Law (Moses) that show us what sin is. The ceremonial rituals were mandated by GOD due to our sinning. No need for the ceremonial rituals because Jesus paid the debt and we now take part in His resurrection. We are a New Creature; the Body of Christ, the Temple of GOD. Behold all things have become new and are of GOD! We now have victory over sin through Christ. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. The Law show us what Christ is, true righteousness; the Word. So let's say not in our heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh, manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach. And that is the Gospel; the Kingdom of GOD to which we speak. Christ in us the hope of Glory; the Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.


It seems you want to separate the Sabbath from the Decalogue and heap it with the ceremonial rituals. Why?
 
Last edited:

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Thats fine but your quoting a different scripture to the one that was sent you by Shamah which is Luke 16:16-17?
From the New Bible Commentary we read that Jesus placed the Law alongside the Prophets as finding fulfillment in him. "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." (Mat 11:13 KJV)

After John we read, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." (Rom 10:4 KJV)

Further, we read in (Gal 3:24-26 KJV) "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
I am offended by these false personal accusations.
Matt. 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

You are preaching falsehoods about God's Word PS. I find it fascinating that doing this doesn't offend you, but someone who loves you enough to show you the error does.

Jesus didn't preach against or apart from God. Your understanding of Matt. 5 has been corrupted by those very people Jesus warned to "Take Heed" of.

Why would you be offended by someone who has shown you a deception you have been tricked into believing? Exactly what part of my post was a false accusation? Did you not just preach to the world that Jesus is talking about Moses in Matt. 5?

And now that you have seen that this is not true according to scriptures, should you not be happy that a deception Jesus Himself warned you about has been exposed? What is it about truth that offends so many people? Jesus already answered this question.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light(Truth) is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

A wise man can accept correction, even if it comes from an ass.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
The BDAG cites:

Mt 5:17; depending on how one prefers to interpret the context, πληρόω is understood here either as fulfill=do, carry out, or as bring to full expression=show it forth in its true mng., or as fill up=complete

From Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible:
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come ... - Our Saviour was just entering on his work. It was important for him to state what he came to do. By his setting up to be a teacher in opposition to the scribes and Pharisees, some might charge him with an intention to destroy their law, and to abolish the customs of the nation. He therefore told them that he did not come for that end, but really to fulfill or accomplish what was in the law and the prophets.
To destroy - To abrogate; to deny their divine authority; to set people free from the obligation to obey them. “The law.” The five books of Moses called the law. See the notes at Luk_24:44.
The Prophets - The books which the prophets wrote. These two divisions here seem to comprehend the Old Testament, and Jesus says that he came not to do away or destroy the authority of the Old Testament.
But to fulfil - To complete the design; to fill up what was predicted; to accomplish what was intended in them.
The word “fulfill” also means sometimes “to teach” or “to inculcate,”


Robertson's Word Pictures:
Matthew 5:17
I came not to destroy, but to fulfil (ouk ēlthon katalusai alla plērōsai). The verb “destroy” means to “loosen down” as of a house or tent (2Co_5:1). Fulfil is to fill full. This Jesus did to the ceremonial law which pointed to him and the moral law he kept. “He came to fill the law, to reveal the full depth of meaning that it was intended to hold” (McNeile).
Read again what you posted. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He completed it. Ended it.

Meaning of fulfill
1.
to bring about the completion or achievement of (a desire, promise, etc)
2. to carry out or execute (a request, etc)
3. to conform with or satisfy (regulations, demands, etc)