Church of Christ

[eternally-gratefull]

The point was that you were labeling me as the one "not giving up" not the other way around.

The point was, You started it.

 

[blue_ladybug]

This ain't romper room, folks. Doesn't matter who started it, just end it and move on..

LOL

 

[DJ2]

lol.. ALL my verses are written in the definitive.

Jesus said definitively..

He who sees the son and believes in him has eternal life, will never die, will live forever, and be raised ont he last day (john 6)

He said definitively, believe in him, and out of your heart will flow rivers of living water leading to eternal life (john 4)

He said definitively God sent his son, that whoever believes in him, will never die but has in his possession eternal life. (john 3)

He said definitively, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed.


Jesus was not making a general observation He made statements of fact. You do not believe it, thats on you, feel free to believe whatever you want,

one last time, Peter did also,

he said Repent, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (spoken to ALL who were present) and let everyone of you (singular subject. he was not speaking to all. but only a select group of people) be baptized on the account you have received remission of sin ("unto" can mean on the account of, or in order to receive so you can not say I am twisting the word) (also remission of sin, this is the group of people singular, peter was telling to be baptized.

(singular subject. he was not speaking to all. but only a select group of people)

Read it again, "this promise is to you and your children (the future) and to those far off (the rest of the world). Peter is commanding water baptism for them and all others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not know what definitive means, do you.

None of your verses definitively states that faith alone is the means to salvation. None, not one. If you can read these verses and believe that they do, then you do not understand the meaning of definitive. And if so explains a great deal of your confusion.

Definitive means all encompassing, final, conclusive, comprehensive and all-inclusive. None of your verses are written in this matter yet you are blind to this.

What a Joke. I am going to be honest here, If i offend you forgive me, I can not believe you write the stuff you do and actually believe it, it boggles my mind that you can sit there with a straight face and say the things you do.

I do not understand what definitive means? Really? So you know people and thats your argument? Wow.


Here let me help you, And just remember, as you read this, You claim Christ did not do these things..

definitive,

serving to provide a final solution or to end a situation

• a definitive victory

• could not give a definitive diagnosis

2 : authoritative and apparently exhaustive

• a definitive critical biography

3 a : serving to define or specify precisely

• established definitive guidelines for sentencing criminals

b : serving as a perfect example : quintessential

• a definitive bourgeois

• A slow race is the definitive Leechfield competition. You win it by coming in last.
• —Mary Karr

4 biology : fully differentiated or developed

• a definitive organ

5 of a postage stamp : issued as a regular stamp for the country or territory in which it is to be used

Yep. This is the way Jesus spoke

1. He spoke with authority (whoever does this (believe) will get this (eternal life))
2. He spoke and established guidelines (he who believes vs he who does not believe)
3. He spoke and re-iterated, the final solution to the problem with sin is the cross, And our faith in the cross (he who believes)
4. He gave his life as an example

You want to ignore it, and say Jesus spoke without authority and left things out. Go ahead, and feel free to do that, Thats on you. Period.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read it again, "this promise is to you and your children (the future) and to those far off (the rest of the world). Peter is commanding water baptism for them and all others.

lol.. Really?

again, how can you state this stuff with a straight face as if you somehow magically found the solution to the problem.

Yes, The promise is to you and your children and to all who in the future will repent, and because of this repentance they will receive the gift of the holy spirit, and based on the fact that they have recieved remission of sin, Go and be baptized.

In fact. who got baptized? Only those who repented. Not everyone..

next?a ny more bright ideas?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read it again, "this promise is to you and your children (the future) and to those far off (the rest of the world). Peter is commanding water baptism for them and all others.

by the way, this promise was for me also.

I chose to be the tax collector and call out on God to have mercy on me a sinner

Because of this FAITH, I was saved, given the spirit as a pledge, received eternal life, recieved the washing and new birth of the HS, was baptised by God into the body of Christ, was adopted as his child.

oh, and when it was available. I also got baptized in water and professed my faith and gave my testimony to the whole church. because I too, had received remission of sin, just like the people Peter spoke to and repented in chapter 2 of acts. and their families, and all who came before me who came to christ in faith.

 

[Magenta]

"Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this, to look after orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep one self uncorrupted by the world." James 1:27 Hmmm, no mention of faith there.

Sounds like someone is looking for a loophole.

No mention of salvation or forgiveness of sins, either. Your rebuttal fails.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Here’s my deal on baptism. First, there are steps one takes BEFORE baptism. Hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptized. Many claim it isn’t an essential part of salvation and many claim it is. My theory is, if it isn’t important then the Bible wouldn’t mention it. Water doesn’t save anyone. Water doesn’t wash away a sinful spiritual state, but it’s kind of a rite of passage into the church. I’m not here to tell anyone they’re right or wrong. Just my personal understanding as to why it’s necessary. If anyone disagrees then fine. I’m not arguing. Just giving my view.

 

[MichaelOwen]

Here’s my deal on baptism. First, there are steps one takes BEFORE baptism. Hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptized. Many claim it isn’t an essential part of salvation and many claim it is. My theory is, if it isn’t important then the Bible wouldn’t mention it. Water doesn’t save anyone. Water doesn’t wash away a sinful spiritual state, but it’s kind of a rite of passage into the church. I’m not here to tell anyone they’re right or wrong. Just my personal understanding as to why it’s necessary. If anyone disagrees then fine. I’m not arguing. Just giving my view.

I totally agree....Baptism is an outward expression of faith and trust in your Lord Jesus, to show you follow Him in baptism, but it doesn't save you....when you believe in your heart that Jesus is the Son of God, and the He was raised from the dead, and confess Him, the Bible is clear THAT saves you, no if's and's or buts, THAT is what saves you, not the baptism. And the Word tells us that the very moment you believe in Jesus in your heart, you're saved, right then on the spot.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I totally agree....Baptism is an outward expression of faith and trust in your Lord Jesus, to show you follow Him in baptism, but it doesn't save you....when you believe in your heart that Jesus is the Son of God, and the He was raised from the dead, and confess Him, the Bible is clear THAT saves you, no if's and's or buts, THAT is what saves you, not the baptism. And the Word tells us that the very moment you believe in Jesus in your heart, you're saved, right then on the spot.

I think sometimes when we discuss scripture we over complicate things. We put ourselves in the mindset when debating that the other person is wrong. So we look for scripture to prove one wrong more than see what’s true. I’ve done it thousands of times on this site along with others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here’s my deal on baptism. First, there are steps one takes BEFORE baptism. Hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptized. Many claim it isn’t an essential part of salvation and many claim it is. My theory is, if it isn’t important then the Bible wouldn’t mention it. Water doesn’t save anyone. Water doesn’t wash away a sinful spiritual state, but it’s kind of a rite of passage into the church. I’m not here to tell anyone they’re right or wrong. Just my personal understanding as to why it’s necessary. If anyone disagrees then fine. I’m not arguing. Just giving my view.

Amen sis, We can see this about all of the works or commands of God. If God did not think they were necessary, or served a purpose. He would not speak of them, He told us about them for a reason. They are for our benefit. It would be to our benefit to do them all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think sometimes when we discuss scripture we over complicate things. We put ourselves in the mindset when debating that the other person is wrong. So we look for scripture to prove one wrong more than see what’s true. I’ve done it thousands of times on this site along with others.

I agree, But at the same time, Some people state things which can not be confused. The jews stated that having faith in christ was great, But if we did not get circumcised we would not be saved. It was requirement.

Paul not only scolded them, but flat out told them if they added works, they were teaching a different gospel.

Sadly. Some people in the church have replaced circumcision with baptism. And make the same claim the jews made (having faith is great, but if your not baptised your not saved) the same warning applies to both. If we or anyone teaches a different gospel. Let him be accursed.

The issue is not baptism, No one here would deny a believer should get baptised, or it is ok to ignore this command. The issue is adding it to grace as a means of salvation.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I agree, But at the same time, Some people state things which can not be confused. The jews stated that having faith in christ was great, But if we did not get circumcised we would not be saved. It was requirement.

Paul not only scolded them, but flat out told them if they added works, they were teaching a different gospel.

Sadly. Some people in the church have replaced circumcision with baptism. And make the same claim the jews made (having faith is great, but if your not baptised your not saved) the same warning applies to both. If we or anyone teaches a different gospel. Let him be accursed.

The issue is not baptism, No one here would deny a believer should get baptised, or it is ok to ignore this command. The issue is adding it to grace as a means of salvation.

The only way I would “compare” baptism to Circumcision is the symbolism. With circumcision you literally cut off the old flesh to expose the new flesh. With water baptism your “washing away” the sinful flesh to expose the new body of Christ in the church.
Yet, they’re not as parallel as many think. Circumcision was a physical means used in the old covenant. One didn’t have to believe to be part of it.
In baptism it’s a spiritual act where you’re not physically removing flesh(sin) and it requires belief before baptism.
When people compare the two is when infant baptism comes into play. I firmly believe one must have understanding and belief before baptism. Unlike circumcision.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I’m also totally waiting for people to move from the baptism topic to the infamous acapella singing in worship. That’s where the real fun begins. Most CoC are against instruments.

 

[MichaelOwen]

I’m also totally waiting for people to move from the baptism topic to the infamous acapella singing in worship. That’s where the real fun begins. Most CoC are against instruments.

I dated a girl once who was a Church of Christ, and she warned me coming from a Baptist background that it might seem weird that there were no instruments used in their worship service, I was taken a back by it, but on the other hand, they sang beautifully

 

[loveme1]

This ain't romper room, folks. Doesn't matter who started it, just end it and move on..

LOL

Romper room.. lol

Rug rats alert.

 

[loveme1]

The only way I would “compare” baptism to Circumcision is the symbolism. With circumcision you literally cut off the old flesh to expose the new flesh. With water baptism your “washing away” the sinful flesh to expose the new body of Christ in the church.
Yet, they’re not as parallel as many think. Circumcision was a physical means used in the old covenant. One didn’t have to believe to be part of it.
In baptism it’s a spiritual act where you’re not physically removing flesh(sin) and it requires belief before baptism.
When people compare the two is when infant baptism comes into play. I firmly believe one must have understanding and belief before baptism. Unlike circumcision.

Great post Hun.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The only way I would “compare” baptism to Circumcision is the symbolism. With circumcision you literally cut off the old flesh to expose the new flesh. With water baptism your “washing away” the sinful flesh to expose the new body of Christ in the church.
Yet, they’re not as parallel as many think. Circumcision was a physical means used in the old covenant. One didn’t have to believe to be part of it.
In baptism it’s a spiritual act where you’re not physically removing flesh(sin) and it requires belief before baptism.
When people compare the two is when infant baptism comes into play. I firmly believe one must have understanding and belief before baptism. Unlike circumcision.

I compair the two in work only, one is an OT work people said was required to be saved, one is a NT work people claim must be done to be saved.

As for the two different works,

Circumcision is the act of a person physically doing something performed on you, This thing done to represents what has been done to make you cleansed.

Water baptism is the act of a person physically doing something to you, or performing on you, the thing done represents what has been done to make you cleansed

Circumcision never saved one person. Whether they had belief or not (abraham was given the sign, after we are told he was saved, So yes, Many people did it yet did not believe, yet many people do. We can say the same thing for baptism. Anyone can get baptised in water, whether they understand what it represents, or they believe truly in God does not matter, and again, No one was saved because a pastor immersed them in water.

Paul in Collosians puts the two together. Where he says we were spiritually circumcised by God, by being baptised by the very hand of God himself. Ie, the circumcision done without hands is the spiritual baptism which is performed by the hs. Being baptised INTO his death.


Anyway, I ramble, I hope you see where I am coming from.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I’m also totally waiting for people to move from the baptism topic to the infamous acapella singing in worship. That’s where the real fun begins. Most CoC are against instruments.

lol.. I guess we should condemn them all because they do not believe in electric guitars at church..

that would b done of those non issues, not worth really being divided over

 

[Elizabeth619]

I dated a girl once who was a Church of Christ, and she warned me coming from a Baptist background that it might seem weird that there were no instruments used in their worship service, I was taken a back by it, but on the other hand, they sang beautifully

We have to sing good. We don’t have instruments to flood out the tone deaf

Even the topic of acapella singing is simple. I can’t speak for other members of the CoC but we are to sing from the heart. That’s what we do. Instruments aren’t necessary and aren’t commanded. If it was I’d be tearing it up on the trumpet! Lol.
And i certainly don’t feel someone would suffer eternal damnation by singing with instruments.