Healing in the Atonement?

[garee]

I can see no promise of physical healing in the atonement. I read your OP and can't see it, so if I'm overlooking it, please point it out to me.

I think, it is talking about Spiritual healing in the atonement.

If the atonement covered physical healing then wouldn't anyone who was sick be immediately healed as soon as they got saved, and then never get sick again with any type of illness not even a cold?

I do believe in healing, just not the name it and claim it kind. I know that God has the power to heal anyone at anytime, but he does this according to his will. We all have our own walks in life and God uses us for his glory and his purpose...we are to seek God's will in our life not our own. I'm not saying not to pray for healing. I would like to see all Christians healed. So Yes, let's all pray and ask for healing for all of our brothers and sisters...but we need to be sure to remember that if it doesn't happen, then it doesn't necessarily mean we don't have enough faith. It could just mean it is not the Lord's will.

So honestly, that is why I don't like you're statement about unbelief. Too me, implying that because a person doesn't get healed, they must have less faith than a person who does get healed... is just plain wrong.

With Paul, I have no idea what his thorn was. All I know is that it he was buffeted by the enemy and God did not take it away. It was God's will for Paul, to suffer with what ever it was. He couldn't just name it and claim it so he listened and understood when God said my grace is sufficient for you. Now, I am in no way saying that all sick people are experiencing what Paul did. I am just saying sometimes we can pray all we want, but it is just not God's will.

I would agree we walk by faith, the unseen healing, having not received the end of our faith our new incorruptible bodies

I believe the thorn in the side was the law of God according to the letter of it.It pricked the conscience of Paul's old heart leading to the spiritual understanding. Leprosy the disease of no pain in that way is used to represent hard calloused hearts

Isaiah 55:13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.


Ezekiel 28:24 And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor any grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them; and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

People would rather blame God than take responsibility for their own lack of faith and unbelief.

who is blaming God?

I have pretty decent comprehension and that is not what I gather from the the posts who point out the error of WOF

in fact, people here ABSOLUTELY DO BELIEVE that God heals...that's the thing though...we believe GOD heals and by His mercy...not on demand or because someone's so called faith...which is often nothing more than presumption...is huger than someone else's...if someone has molehill faith, God hears them just as well as someone who has Mt Kilimanjaro faith

your style of driveby sniping adds nothing to the conversation...but is typical of the blame game WOFers like to play when they do not (which is a failure rate of 100% of the time) get an instant healing performance out of God

 

[wolfwint]

People would rather blame God than take responsibility for their own lack of faith and unbelief.

So you would tell to a sick brother ore sister in the Lord. Well its your own fault, because your faith is not sufficient enough? I know my life is in the Lords hand in health ore in sickness. I have no reason to doubt that God loves me.

 

[stonesoffire]

Why then this is not taught from the NT writers to the believers. Also you cant find this teaching in the churchhistory, if I am not wrong.
What sense makes a statement: you are already physical healed, but you see in your body that you are not healed.
What makes sense to pray for healing, if there is a statement you are already healed.
But I can say, and the Holy Spirit gives this assurance to me, that I am saved through Jesus gives his life for me.
This is a fact.
This statement you are already physical healed is a fake, solong you are still suffer in your deaseases.
And to tell that you have not enough faith, this why you are still sick, is an cheap excuse for a not function of this claim. A claim which God never has prommissed us while we live on earth.

It's the same scene of salvation wolf. You hear the gospel, you believe the word, and receive the benefit of being saved from sin. Yet, not residing in the Kingdom of heaven. By faith or increased faith, some have gone there. One can have unbelief though in hearing that some have gone into heaven and returned. Unbelief includes the definition skeptic. Skepticism. Not doubt, but doubt can lead to skepticism.

Jesus received the curse that Adam brought upon mankind and on all of creation. Death. What is the result of death coming on Adam and Eve? Corruption. Weakness, frailty. And in the world? Corruption, leading to disease and death.

He reversed the curse. But, only faith will open the door to wholeness. Be not unbelieving but have faith in God.

He declared Himself the Lord who healeth thee, to physical Israel, how much more to His spiritual Israel?

We are members of His body. Is Jesus sick?

Selah

 

[stonesoffire]

So you would tell to a sick brother ore sister in the Lord. Well its your own fault, because your faith is not sufficient enough? I know my life is in the Lords hand in health ore in sickness. I have no reason to doubt that God loves me.

That is not the Love that God has shed throughout us by Holy Spirit.

But,if there was a reason for being sick, I would want to know it, and rid myself of it. There's a way to speak that is healing too.

 

[know1]

Why then this is not taught from the NT writers to the believers. Also you cant find this teaching in the churchhistory, if I am not wrong.
What sense makes a statement: you are already physical healed, but you see in your body that you are not healed.
What makes sense to pray for healing, if there is a statement you are already healed.
But I can say, and the Holy Spirit gives this assurance to me, that I am saved through Jesus gives his life for me.
This is a fact.
This statement you are already physical healed is a fake, solong you are still suffer in your deaseases.
And to tell that you have not enough faith, this why you are still sick, is an cheap excuse for a not function of this claim. A claim which God never has prommissed us while we live on earth.

To me, it doesn't matter what was taught or what was not. What matters is, is it written and is it truth.
If confessing that you are healed is a lie, then God lied also... before it came to pass.
What do you think faith is, and what did God do every time He "called things which be not as though they were"?
Faith does not make sense to the carnally minded, so start looking at what is written, and seek God to show you what the truth is, and if you have a good heart (without bias), He will show you.
A big hurdle for many to go over is the interim between faith and fact.
God's word says, you were/are healed, but before that transpires, the fact of the matter is, what you are experiencing, seeing, feeling, or even hearing from others, says contrary.
The truth concerning salvation is, most don't experience anything for the new birth, like myself, so it is assumed that the person is born again.
Why?
Because it is written. Right?
But for many to believe for a physical healing, they have to experience or see it FIRST.
So I ask you, how come you believed the scriptures for salvation, but not for healing? Why do you have to have a testimony or an example for a physical healing but scripture for salvation.
The fact is, healing is a scriptural truth.
If it were not, then IT WOULDN'T WORK FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME.
God back up His word with signs following, as He has been doing for ALL WHO BELIEVE. But to the doubting Christian, they don't get any signs following, and therefore to pacify themselves, they have to concoct lies like, "God's trying to teach you something or to humble you", or "It might not be His will for you", or "Sometimes God says yes, and sometimes He says no".
All fabricated lies from people who quit believing, long before healing manifested.
Many times, healing does not come immediately or suddenly. It can be gradual as well. You just have to stick with it long enough for it to manifest.
Like I said, the thing works for me.
I never ask God if it is His will to heal me, or if He said no, when it takes a long time, like for my kidney to be healed of years of pain after the second episode of stones.
It took about 2 years of confessing, for all the pain to go and stay away.
How long did you fight the good fight of faith for? A day, maybe two?
Are you not aware that you were not born again UNTIL AFTER you believed and confessed Jesus was your lord and that you are born again?
How long did that process take?
You don't know. You just assume it was instantaneous, because you didn't have to experience any physical manifestation.
Not so with physical healings.
However, the same truths for salvation, applies to healing. It doesn't happen UNTIL you confess that which is not, as though it is, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT OR WAVERING DURING THE INTERIM PERIOD, OR TIME OF TESTING.

 

[wolfwint]

To me, it doesn't matter what was taught or what was not. What matters is, is it written and is it truth.
If confessing that you are healed is a lie, then God lied also... before it came to pass.
What do you think faith is, and what did God do every time He "called things which be not as though they were"?
Faith does not make sense to the carnally minded, so start looking at what is written, and seek God to show you what the truth is, and if you have a good heart (without bias), He will show you.
A big hurdle for many to go over is the interim between faith and fact.
God's word says, you were/are healed, but before that transpires, the fact of the matter is, what you are experiencing, seeing, feeling, or even hearing from others, says contrary.
The truth concerning salvation is, most don't experience anything for the new birth, like myself, so it is assumed that the person is born again.
Why?
Because it is written. Right?
But for many to believe for a physical healing, they have to experience or see it FIRST.
So I ask you, how come you believed the scriptures for salvation, but not for healing? Why do you have to have a testimony or an example for a physical healing but scripture for salvation.
The fact is, healing is a scriptural truth.
If it were not, then IT WOULDN'T WORK FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME.
God back up His word with signs following, as He has been doing for ALL WHO BELIEVE. But to the doubting Christian, they don't get any signs following, and therefore to pacify themselves, they have to concoct lies like, "God's trying to teach you something or to humble you", or "It might not be His will for you", or "Sometimes God says yes, and sometimes He says no".
All fabricated lies from people who quit believing, long before healing manifested.
Many times, healing does not come immediately or suddenly. It can be gradual as well. You just have to stick with it long enough for it to manifest.
Like I said, the thing works for me.
I never ask God if it is His will to heal me, or if He said no, when it takes a long time, like for my kidney to be healed of years of pain after the second episode of stones.
It took about 2 years of confessing, for all the pain to go and stay away.
How long did you fight the good fight of faith for? A day, maybe two?
Are you not aware that you were not born again UNTIL AFTER you believed and confessed Jesus was your lord and that you are born again?
How long did that process take?
You don't know. You just assume it was instantaneous, because you didn't have to experience any physical manifestation.
Not so with physical healings.
However, the same truths for salvation, applies to healing. It doesn't happen UNTIL you confess that which is not, as though it is, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT OR WAVERING DURING THE INTERIM PERIOD, OR TIME OF TESTING.

I agree with you, it doesnt matter what somebody is taught its matter s if it is written and taught in the bible and is true.
If something is true it will come. The thing is that those who claim that physical healing of every believer is in the atonement have the problem that their claim is not coming true. And your excuse for that is that you blame the believer to have lack on faith.
All believers in the NT and during the churchhistory died and most because of any sickness, doesnt matter how strong their faith was.
You are promissing things which is for heaven and not for our life here. Of course the Lord heals today!!!! But according his will. And is our Lord not our ideal who prayed your will should be done. For me it seems that the most important thing is today that our Will should be done.
The Lord called me when I was 25 years old. He searched me, not I searched him. And it took an evening that he convinced me from my sins and that he is the only way to God. Since he gave me his Holy Spirit I can distingish false from right teaching. Should I ignore this gift?
The teaching which is promoted in this thread is false.
Should I ignore it?

 

[know1]

I can see no promise of physical healing in the atonement. I read your OP and can't see it, so if I'm overlooking it, please point it out to me.

Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

If you look at all the curses under the law, you would see that sicknesses and diseases were part of that curse. Jesus came to redeem us from that curse, and He did, so long as we remain in the grace of God.
When you get off into sin without repenting, you have transgressed against the law and move out of God's grace or favor for His blessings, and therefore open yourself up for a curse.

Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

It is possible for a child of God to fall from Grace.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Out of grace means in a curse of the law.

I think, it is talking about Spiritual healing in the atonement.

If the atonement covered physical healing then wouldn't anyone who was sick be immediately healed as soon as they got saved, and then never get sick again with any type of illness not even a cold?

Again, the answer is no.
It took faith to get saved and it takes the same for healing.
Just as you had to have faith SPECIFICALLY FOR salvation, you have to have faith SPECIFICALLY FOR healing.
And just as forgiveness and cleansing of one's sins is not automatic, when they sin, neither does healing take place automatically or just because one is born again.
That is not how things works.
Faith is not an all encompassing thing, like a bomb going off, but more like a laser. You have to point it, in a specific direction or at something for a period of time, before it starts to burn a hole in the object.
Many times, one needs to fight the good fight of faith, by staying with it, not letting it go, until you get done what you believe is done or have that which you already have.

I do believe in healing, just not the name it and claim it kind. I know that God has the power to heal anyone at anytime, but he does this according to his will. We all have our own walks in life and God uses us for his glory and his purpose...we are to seek God's will in our life not our own. I'm not saying not to pray for healing. I would like to see all Christians healed. So Yes, let's all pray and ask for healing for all of our brothers and sisters...but we need to be sure to remember that if it doesn't happen, then it doesn't necessarily mean we don't have enough faith. It could just mean it is not the Lord's will.

But in your case, it is obvious that you do not have any faith for anyone's healing, because you do not know what faith is.
If you do not know what God's will is, then you will not be able to have ANY faith for that which you requested.
What you just said basically is, 'let us HOPE AND PRAY to God'.
We all know God CAN, but it takes faith to know GOD WILL.

So honestly, that is why I don't like you're statement about unbelief. Too me, implying that because a person doesn't get healed, they must have less faith than a person who does get healed... is just plain wrong.

You already demonstrated that you don't know what faith is when you condemn others for saying those who don't get healed don't have enough faith. How can you make an argument against the lack of faith statement, when you yourself don't know what it is?
I am guessing that you think faith is having some kind of confidence toward something. Am I right?
If that be true, then how can you have any confidence if you don't know what God is going to do?
You can't and you don't.
Faith is certain. Hoping, wishing, or wondering is not.

With Paul, I have no idea what his thorn was. All I know is that it he was buffeted by the enemy and God did not take it away. It was God's will for Paul, to suffer with what ever it was. He couldn't just name it and claim it so he listened and understood when God said my grace is sufficient for you. Now, I am in no way saying that all sick people are experiencing what Paul did. I am just saying sometimes we can pray all we want, but it is just not God's will.

That's because He told us to resist the devil, NOT TO ASK HIM TO DO IT.
And God did not tell Paul no, but told him what he needed to know to command the thing to be gone.
You don't drive the enemy out or back with a defensive weapon, like that of a shield, but with an offensive weapon, like that of a sword.

 

[know1]

BUT GOD IS 'to blame' if you mean by that that HE is responsible for people not being healed. Not that we can blame God, for we must recognise that He has a right to heal whom He will. Our faith and unbelief is only secondary in the matter.

NOT so.
When it comes to healing, it is primary.
It is God's will to heal all, even as it is His will to be done on earth, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

 

[know1]

who is blaming God?

I have pretty decent comprehension and that is not what I gather from the the posts who point out the error of WOF

in fact, people here ABSOLUTELY DO BELIEVE that God heals...that's the thing though...we believe GOD heals and by His mercy...not on demand or because someone's so called faith...which is often nothing more than presumption...is huger than someone else's...if someone has molehill faith, God hears them just as well as someone who has Mt Kilimanjaro faith

your style of driveby sniping adds nothing to the conversation...but is typical of the blame game WOFers like to play when they do not (which is a failure rate of 100% of the time) get an instant healing performance out of God

I would like you to know that faith is not like a mountain or flat land, but like MANY different kinds of mountains, varying in size, and with hills, to mole hills, to flat lands, where there is no faith.
It is not one faith blankets all.
You can have faith for one thing but not another.
Take salvation verses healing.
Just about anyone can believe for salvation, but it is an entirely different matter for a physical healing, because it gets REAL at that point.

 

[7777pinacled]

NOT so.
When it comes to healing, it is primary.
It is God's will to heal all, even as it is His will to be done on earth, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

Amen
In heaven the Father Son Holy Spirit

the blood, water and spirit on earth.

 

[BenFTW]

I don't know why individuals so well versed in the Bible and "hermeneutics" always seem to avoid where Isaiah 53:4 has been quoted in the New Testament in the context of healing.

Isaiah 53:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


Matthew 8:13-17 King James Version (KJV)

13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Now the reason I brought this back to verse 13 is to see the heart of Jesus. He was healing people all of the time. He is still alive today, His heart the same. As for the healing context we see Isaiah 53:4 being quoted in Mathew 8:17 as Jesus delivered people and "healed all that were sick."

Someone would have to be willfully ignorant, nearly deceptive, to say that physical healing is not found in Isaiah 53 (especially after being shown this before) and is only talking of "spiritual healing." Too many times have these verses been paralleled and unaddressed, ignored.

God, our Father in the OT presented Himself with a name that defines Him. Jehovah Rapha, the Lord that heals. It is His very nature to heal. All throughout Jesus' ministry He healed. We see God Almighty healing all of the time, throughout history. People often point to spiritual healing, but look at these verses by King David as he spoke about physical healing in the same breath as he spoke of spiritual healing.

Psalm 103:1-5 King James Version (KJV)

103 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

God is faithful, he saves us from sin and sickness.

I just want to point out, once again, that this parallel in this discussion is ignored by the opposition (because it shows Isaiah 53 actually does refer to physical healing as well).

 

[Angela53510]

It is very much part of the atonement.
Would you care to show the relationship between sin and physical sickness, because you weren't far from saying the same thing.

Mat 8:15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

The above verse is clearly pointing to the same verse you claim is talking about a spiritual sickness, which the bible does not say, only in the new testament, Jesus is NOT healing the people's souls of sin, (if you are referring to cleansing the soul of sin) God did that when they confessed their sins during water baptism, but He was, without any doubt, healing ALL who were PHYSICALLY SICK OR DISEASED.
If you want to refer to casing out evil spirit as cleansing of the soul, that would be fine for the weaknesses, but sicknesses is simply referring to physical sicknesses and diseases.
To say anything else is to make the bible say only what you want it to say, not what God is saying.

Yes, Jesus healed in his ministry. In fact, if he had not healed, he would not have fulfilled the prophecies by Isaiah. No one is denying Jesus healed during his ministry. (Or even that he heals now, if it is HIS will!) But, now, his ministry on earth is over, and he has fulfilled the prophecy! God has sent the Holy Spirit to lead, guide and direct us. And that is a big order, including developing who we are, in order that we might serve God better, and grow in knowledge and wisdom. Now, I know you don't understand tenses in English, by the way, you have taken something that happened, a finished act in the past "healed" and somehow you apply it to a twisted doctrine in the present, which is actually future for Matthew. Here is the Greek.


" [FONT=&quot]Ὀψίας δὲ γενομένης προσήνεγκαν αὐτῷ δαιμονιζομένους πολλούς· καὶ ἐξέβαλεν τὰ πνεύματα λόγῳ, καὶ πάντας τοὺς κακῶς ἔχοντας ἐθεράπευσεν· [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ὅπως πληρωθῇ τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Ἠσαΐου τοῦ προφήτου λέγοντος· Αὐτὸς τὰς ἀσθενείας ἡμῶν ἔλαβεν καὶ τὰς νόσους ἐβάστασεν.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" Matt 8:16
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]ἐθεράπευσεν [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- from [/FONT][FONT=&quot]θερπεύω[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Ι heal - In the Aorist Indicative Active
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]ὅπως-[/FONT][FONT=&quot] "how, that, in order that"
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]πληρωθῇ [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]- Aorist Subjective Passive - "was fulfilled"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]ἔλαβεν [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- Aorist Indicative Active - "he took"
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]ἐβάστασεν [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- Aorist Indicative active - "he bore" quoted from Isaiah 53:4
[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]So, why go through the Greek, when the English says the same thing? Just to show you all the Aorist tenses in this. Aorist is something that happened in the past, the normal past tense in Greek. It denotes a finished activity, and if you want to be more specific, as seen from outside the activity.
[/FONT]
"When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick, 17 so that what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]He Himself took our weaknesses
and carried our diseases." Matt. 8:16-17 HCSB
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
This is the closest translation to the Greek. Most versions, lazily follow the KJV, which is simply not right. No where do the words. the version you posted above, (is this some kind of Word Faith version? Just curious!) does not have the important connecting words "so that, in order that," which is clearly the Greek and of utmost importance.

So, do you see the difference between what I posted, and what you posted? You ripped the words, "healed all who were sick" as being the most important thing in these verses. Plus, you then applied it forward, to all believers forever. I fail to see ANYWHERE that it says because Jesus, on one day healed all who were sick, IN ORDER TO or ὅπως, the prophecies of Isaiah were fulfilled.

The entire point of this verse, early in Jesus EARTHLY ministry is to show that Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy written in Isaiah. A prophecy about the Messiah, and the incarnation.

Jesus healed "IN ORDER TO" that the prophecy in Isaiah WAS FULFILLED! So, stop pulling these weird versions that do not agree with the Greek, and miss the entire point of the passage.

At no point, do these verses claim, as you want to say, "Because Jesus healed all their diseases, at a certain time, for a certain purpose, therefore we can claim healing for ALL from 30 AD till Jesus returns!" How absurd! What a twist of the context.

These verses in Greek clearly say that "Jesus healed their diseases SO THAT, or IN ORDER THAT the prophecy spoken by Isaiah might be fulfilled. Isa. 53, as I have said over and over, is not about US. It is a prophecy about Jesus, and what would happen to him. He would be the suffering servant, he would heal, and his death on the cross would save us all.

Just the worst possible exegesis. Read it in English, now, in a version that reflects the Greek, and think about what this passage is about!

NOT agreed.
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but no one is automatically saved when or because they believe in the atonement, just like no one is automatically healed when they are born again.
It takes a personal faith in Jesus for salvation and it takes the same faith for healing.
One reason why healing is in the atonement is because sicknesses and diseases are a result of the CURSE of God. Of which, Jesus bore and became a curse, that all who believe might be healed, made whole, delivered, preserved, and saved.
That's what the Greek word means for "saved".
Are you going to tell me that is referring to the soul as well?
Again, you point to the fact that not all who receive Christ get a "perfect healing" (seriously?), but apparently you can show that everyone is born again when they believe in the atoning blood of Jesus.
You always look and point to the natural world, the same world the devil is god of, to prove a point, but WHEN someone backslides or turns from God, all of a sudden, they were never saved.
BUT THEY BELIEVED IN THE ATONEMENT, WHY AREN'T THEY SAVED ANYMORE?
Why, when it is written that all who believe shall be saved?
But healing by the blood of Jesus is also written.
You don't want to believe that, or others for that matter, because you have to look at the natural world for proof to back up your assertion. Not what is written, but what is happening in the natural world.
It is sad to see so many looking to the natural to determine what the bible says, or using it to overrule what is written.
Making the physical evidence truer than the word of God.

Well, as usual, not a single Bible verse, just a few paraphrases twisted to support your heresy. As far as the meaning of "salvation" or σωτηρία, and he will save or [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]σώσει [/FONT][FONT=&quot]from [/FONT]σῴζω it has a broad range of meanings. Certainly deliverance from enemies, and salvation from sins are part of that.

Matthew, whom you quoted above, makes it clear what Jesus is here to do:

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21 ESV

Yes, they were anticipating a Messiah that would fulfill texts like Isa. 53, in its entirety, but the primary purpose of Jesus coming is laid out right from the first chapter of Matthew. Jesus came to save the people FROM THEIR SINS!

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!

Everything you say is eisegesis, you reading into the Word of God, rather than the Bible dictating the truth. Exegesis, means "pulling out" of the text what it means. Good hermeneutics means seeing what Matthew meant writing to HIS audience, faithful Jews, awaiting the Messiah, who knew the prophecies.

It's almost unbelievable you could so badly twist and misuse those verses in Matt 8! It was about Jesus fulfilling the prophecies in Isaiah, and you Word Faith people turn both verses into some kind of New Age mantra to demand healing.



As for your accusations on another thread, a little ways back, that I do not have faith for healing, let me tell you, it takes a lot more faith to be prayed over by people who tell you that if you are not healed, you don't have faith, than it would had I actually been healed. I had to suffer in pain, thinking God had condemned and judged me, because of this filthy, disgusting heresy. In the last few days, you and another person said that. As I said to her I had faith and more, but God had a better plan for me, to truly understand the truth of the Bible, instead of this cherry picked cobbling together of verses.

It takes a lot more faith to suffer, to be immobile and in constant agonizing pain that getting up and walking would ever take. God has led me on this journey, and taught me, humbled me, and changed me for his glory. I was a worthless servant before I was got sick. God allowed me to be shattered and broken, so that I could understand brokenness and have a ministry of reconciliation.

"All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling[c] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Cor. 5:18-21

God healed my soul, and that is what counts in eternity, not these lying out-of-context promises you "claim."

I would implore you, know1, to repent of this evil, condemning heresy, and be reconciled to God!

 

[joaniemarie]

To me, it doesn't matter what was taught or what was not. What matters is, is it written and is it truth.
If confessing that you are healed is a lie, then God lied also... before it came to pass.
What do you think faith is, and what did God do every time He "called things which be not as though they were"?
Faith does not make sense to the carnally minded, so start looking at what is written, and seek God to show you what the truth is, and if you have a good heart (without bias), He will show you.
A big hurdle for many to go over is the interim between faith and fact.
God's word says, you were/are healed, but before that transpires, the fact of the matter is, what you are experiencing, seeing, feeling, or even hearing from others, says contrary.
The truth concerning salvation is, most don't experience anything for the new birth, like myself, so it is assumed that the person is born again.
Why?
Because it is written. Right?
But for many to believe for a physical healing, they have to experience or see it FIRST.
So I ask you, how come you believed the scriptures for salvation, but not for healing? Why do you have to have a testimony or an example for a physical healing but scripture for salvation.
The fact is, healing is a scriptural truth.
If it were not, then IT WOULDN'T WORK FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME.
God back up His word with signs following, as He has been doing for ALL WHO BELIEVE. But to the doubting Christian, they don't get any signs following, and therefore to pacify themselves, they have to concoct lies like, "God's trying to teach you something or to humble you", or "It might not be His will for you", or "Sometimes God says yes, and sometimes He says no".
All fabricated lies from people who quit believing, long before healing manifested.
Many times, healing does not come immediately or suddenly. It can be gradual as well. You just have to stick with it long enough for it to manifest.
Like I said, the thing works for me.
I never ask God if it is His will to heal me, or if He said no, when it takes a long time, like for my kidney to be healed of years of pain after the second episode of stones.
It took about 2 years of confessing, for all the pain to go and stay away.
How long did you fight the good fight of faith for? A day, maybe two?
Are you not aware that you were not born again UNTIL AFTER you believed and confessed Jesus was your lord and that you are born again?
How long did that process take?
You don't know. You just assume it was instantaneous, because you didn't have to experience any physical manifestation.
Not so with physical healings.
However, the same truths for salvation, applies to healing. It doesn't happen UNTIL you confess that which is not, as though it is, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT OR WAVERING DURING THE INTERIM PERIOD, OR TIME OF TESTING.

This is certainly true Amen brother know1.,. The seed of the Word gets planted and it's our job to act as CO LABORERS with Him to water it with the washing of the Word and with faith. And the devil is always there intent on stealing the word in planted in us. To cause us to be "weary" and to "faint"

But faith in the love and grace of God in Christ keeps seeing God's promises as sure so we get motivated to lean hard on His promises and believe regardless of what man may say. Because we have SEEN and believed by faith the love and grace of God and watched Him work in our life. This work done in and for me is based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Not based on my abilities or my smarts.

It's the grace of God that teaches us how to do these things. We have been saved by grace through faith., (as you reminded us here know1)... now we are called to walk it out by grace through faith.... the SAME WAY... JESUS Titus 2:11-13

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God (His unmerited favor and blessing) has come forward (appeared) for the deliverance from sin and the eternal salvation for all mankind.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]It has trained us to reject and renounce all ungodliness (irreligion) and worldly (passionate) desires, to live discreet (temperate, self-controlled), upright, devout (spiritually whole) lives in this present world,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

 

[know1]

I agree with you, it doesnt matter what somebody is taught its matter s if it is written and taught in the bible and is true.
If something is true it will come. The thing is that those who claim that physical healing of every believer is in the atonement have the problem that their claim is not coming true. And your excuse for that is that you blame the believer to have lack on faith.
All believers in the NT and during the churchhistory died and most because of any sickness, doesnt matter how strong their faith was.
You are promissing things which is for heaven and not for our life here. Of course the Lord heals today!!!! But according his will. And is our Lord not our ideal who prayed your will should be done. For me it seems that the most important thing is today that our Will should be done.
The Lord called me when I was 25 years old. He searched me, not I searched him. And it took an evening that he convinced me from my sins and that he is the only way to God. Since he gave me his Holy Spirit I can distingish false from right teaching. Should I ignore this gift?
The teaching which is promoted in this thread is false.
Should I ignore it?

No, certainly not, but it wouldn't hurt for you to put your understanding of the subject on trial, so to speak, since you don't know what faith is or how it works, because it most certainly is NOT false, nor is it a lie or doctrine of devils.
As you already know, not everyone is healed, so we can rule out that fact.
The question is why or how come?
God said His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge and perish for lack of vision.
Today's average Christian fits those statements to a tee.
Let's use your prior post as one example, about not knowing the will of God and faith or believing.
One definition for faith is "confident assurance".
If you don't know what the will of God is concerning your healing or that of another, will you be able to have any confidence that God will indeed heal you or the other person?
Absolutely not. And I say that emphatically.
They are the reciprocal of each other.
To wonder, is to doubt.
To question, is to be double-minded.
To hope, is for it to be some day.
To believe though, is for the now.
To have faith, is to be, to have, or to have it taken away, NOW. ALWAYS NOW.
When are you expecting this thing to manifest? It can make the difference between having it now or someday in the future.
How long will you be willing to stand before it does? Most fall away from believing in the promises shortly after nothing happens.
What about the sins of the person afficted?
What effect does it have on the situation?
As I said before in other post. We are not automatically forgiven and/or cleansed, just because we are born again. The blood of Jesus does not cleanse the unrepentant heart?
Yes, Jesus died for all the sins His children will ever commit, but only to those who repent and confess their sins.
Another plain fact is, like you, people don't know what faith is or how it works.
Faith is a law and it works like all natural laws. Like the word or promises of God, they NEVER, EVER fail.
My wife's great great grandparents died KNOWING when they were going to die, WITHOUT EVER being sick. They died HEALTHY AND WITHOUT ANY PAIN, EVEN WITH A SMILE ON THEIR FACES WHEN THEY SAW JESUS.
Stop looking at the natural as though everything HAS TO be that way.
Keep in mind that satan is the god of this natural world, and he can make things look bleak and black.
If your faith is in the natural, then you are subject to what the natural has to offer.
God also has a world that He is God of, and all who believe will be subject to all that that world has to offer.
I don't promise anything to anyone, other than what God has already promised to those who believe.
The question is, are you going to believe the word of God or keep showing and telling me the way things are in the natural.
I have eyes too, I am not blind. I have experienced failures as much, if not more, than most, concerning healing. I just know that what is written is truth above that which we see, hear, or experience.
If you HOLD a doctrine dear to you, then gift or no gift, you will not be able to receive the truth or to know it.
If your cup is full of hardened cement, God will not be able to put anything else in there, must less replace it with something good.
If you reject something before hearing all the evidence, because you were already convinced to the contrary beforehand, how will you be able to receive what might be the truth?
You won't, because God will not force truth down your throat.
But if you seek God with an honest heart, desiring to know the truth, actually listening to both sides, if necessary, then God will be able to reveal it to you.
There are many things you don't know about the subject and yet you try to argue against what some of us are saying.
Also, as long as you continue to look at the natural, you will not be able to see what is written in the word of God, neither will you be able to accept the promises of God.
I, on the other hand, have a pretty good understanding of what faith is and how it works, but still learning.

 

[7777pinacled]

This is certainly true Amen brother know1.,. The seed of the Word gets planted and it's our job to act as CO LABORERS with Him to water it with the washing of the Word and with faith. And the devil is always there intent on stealing the word in planted in us. To cause us to be "weary" and to "faint"

But faith in the love and grace of God in Christ keeps seeing God's promises as sure so we get motivated to lean hard on His promises and believe regardless of what man may say. Because we have SEEN and believed by faith the love and grace of God and watched Him work in our life. This work done in and for me is based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Not based on my abilities or my smarts.

It's the grace of God that teaches us how to do these things. We have been saved by grace through faith., (as you reminded us here know1)... now we are called to walk it out by grace through faith.... the SAME WAY... JESUS Titus 2:11-13

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God (His unmerited favor and blessing) has come forward (appeared) for the deliverance from sin and the eternal salvation for all mankind.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]It has trained us to reject and renounce all ungodliness (irreligion) and worldly (passionate) desires, to live discreet (temperate, self-controlled), upright, devout (spiritually whole) lives in this present world,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

As believers we grow with the Lord in stewarding the Garden in the fruits of the Spirit till the times comes when there will be twelve manner of Fruit.
And sometimes there is pruning to be done to some of the trees. And through The Holy One we Learn from the Father of Lights who gives increase to each fruit.

2 Peter 1 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

1 From: Shim‘on Kefa, a slave and emissary of Yeshua the Messiah
To: Those who, through the righteousness of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah, have been given the same kind of trust as ours:
May grace and shalom be yours in full measure, as you come to a full knowledge of God and Yeshua our Lord.
3 God’s power has given us everything we need for life and godliness, through our knowing the One who called us to his own glory and goodness. 4 By these he has given us valuable and superlatively great promises, so that through them you might come to share in God’s nature and escape the corruption which evil desires have brought into the world.
5 For this very reason, try your hardest to furnish your

}faith with goodness,
}goodness with knowledge,
}knowledge with self-control,
}self-control with perseverance,
}perseverance with godliness,
}godliness with brotherly affection,
}and brotherly affection with love.

For if you have these qualities in abundance, they keep you from being barren and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.

 

[wolfwint]

I just want to point out, once again, that this parallel in this discussion is ignored by the opposition (because it shows Isaiah 53 actually does refer to physical healing as well).

Ben, that our Lord carried our Sickness and our pain has nothing to do with that, that he promissed physical health to every christian. And if so then he did it without expecting from us the efficient Faith. This is a man made doctrine and the reality Shows that this doctrine is not Working. The very most christians in the past died because of any diseases, when the hat no accident ore when the are not we're killed. This is a fact. And today christians become sick indepent how strong their Faith is. This is also fact. That the Lord heals Today is no question, but if the Lord is not Coming back then the healed Person will die, probably because of an other disease.
So is the Doctrine that we all can live in an health condition, while we staying on earth a false Doctrine which leads to Frustration and selfdoubting.

 

[know1]

Yes, Jesus healed in his ministry. In fact, if he had not healed, he would not have fulfilled the prophecies by Isaiah. No one is denying Jesus healed during his ministry. (Or even that he heals now, if it is HIS will!) But, now, his ministry on earth is over, and he has fulfilled the prophecy! God has sent the Holy Spirit to lead, guide and direct us. And that is a big order, including developing who we are, in order that we might serve God better, and grow in knowledge and wisdom. Now, I know you don't understand tenses in English, by the way, you have taken something that happened, a finished act in the past "healed" and somehow you apply it to a twisted doctrine in the present, which is actually future for Matthew. Here is the Greek.


"Ὀψίας δὲ γενομένης προσήνεγκαν αὐτῷ δαιμονιζομένους πολλούς· καὶ ἐξέβαλεν τὰ πνεύματα λόγῳ, καὶ πάντας τοὺς κακῶς ἔχοντας ἐθεράπευσεν· ὅπως πληρωθῇ τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Ἠσαΐου τοῦ προφήτου λέγοντος· Αὐτὸς τὰς ἀσθενείας ἡμῶν ἔλαβεν καὶ τὰς νόσους ἐβάστασεν." Matt 8:16

ἐθεράπευσεν - from θερπεύω Ι heal - In the Aorist Indicative Active

ὅπως- "how, that, in order that"

πληρωθῇ - Aorist Subjective Passive - "was fulfilled"

ἔλαβεν - Aorist Indicative Active - "he took"

ἐβάστασεν - Aorist Indicative active - "he bore" quoted from Isaiah 53:4

So, why go through the Greek, when the English says the same thing? Just to show you all the Aorist tenses in this. Aorist is something that happened in the past, the normal past tense in Greek. It denotes a finished activity, and if you want to be more specific, as seen from outside the activity.

"When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick, 17 so that what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:He Himself took our weaknesses
and carried our diseases." Matt. 8:16-17 HCSB


This is the closest translation to the Greek. Most versions, lazily follow the KJV, which is simply not right. No where do the words. the version you posted above, (is this some kind of Word Faith version? Just curious!) does not have the important connecting words "so that, in order that," which is clearly the Greek and of utmost importance.

So, do you see the difference between what I posted, and what you posted? You ripped the words, "healed all who were sick" as being the most important thing in these verses. Plus, you then applied it forward, to all believers forever. I fail to see ANYWHERE that it says because Jesus, on one day healed all who were sick, IN ORDER TO or ὅπως, the prophecies of Isaiah were fulfilled.

The entire point of this verse, early in Jesus EARTHLY ministry is to show that Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy written in Isaiah. A prophecy about the Messiah, and the incarnation.

Jesus healed "IN ORDER TO" that the prophecy in Isaiah WAS FULFILLED! So, stop pulling these weird versions that do not agree with the Greek, and miss the entire point of the passage.

At no point, do these verses claim, as you want to say, "Because Jesus healed all their diseases, at a certain time, for a certain purpose, therefore we can claim healing for ALL from 30 AD till Jesus returns!" How absurd! What a twist of the context.

These verses in Greek clearly say that "Jesus healed their diseases SO THAT, or IN ORDER THAT the prophecy spoken by Isaiah might be fulfilled. Isa. 53, as I have said over and over, is not about US. It is a prophecy about Jesus, and what would happen to him. He would be the suffering servant, he would heal, and his death on the cross would save us all.

Just the worst possible exegesis. Read it in English, now, in a version that reflects the Greek, and think about what this passage is about!






Well, as usual, not a single Bible verse, just a few paraphrases twisted to support your heresy. As far as the meaning of "salvation" or σωτηρία, and he will save or σώσει from σῴζω it has a broad range of meanings. Certainly deliverance from enemies, and salvation from sins are part of that.

Matthew, whom you quoted above, makes it clear what Jesus is here to do:

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21 ESV

Yes, they were anticipating a Messiah that would fulfill texts like Isa. 53, in its entirety, but the primary purpose of Jesus coming is laid out right from the first chapter of Matthew. Jesus came to save the people FROM THEIR SINS!

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!

Everything you say is eisegesis, you reading into the Word of God, rather than the Bible dictating the truth. Exegesis, means "pulling out" of the text what it means. Good hermeneutics means seeing what Matthew meant writing to HIS audience, faithful Jews, awaiting the Messiah, who knew the prophecies.

It's almost unbelievable you could so badly twist and misuse those verses in Matt 8! It was about Jesus fulfilling the prophecies in Isaiah, and you Word Faith people turn both verses into some kind of New Age mantra to demand healing.



As for your accusations on another thread, a little ways back, that I do not have faith for healing, let me tell you, it takes a lot more faith to be prayed over by people who tell you that if you are not healed, you don't have faith, than it would had I actually been healed. I had to suffer in pain, thinking God had condemned and judged me, because of this filthy, disgusting heresy. In the last few days, you and another person said that. As I said to her I had faith and more, but God had a better plan for me, to truly understand the truth of the Bible, instead of this cherry picked cobbling together of verses.

It takes a lot more faith to suffer, to be immobile and in constant agonizing pain that getting up and walking would ever take. God has led me on this journey, and taught me, humbled me, and changed me for his glory. I was a worthless servant before I was got sick. God allowed me to be shattered and broken, so that I could understand brokenness and have a ministry of reconciliation.

"All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling[c] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Cor. 5:18-21

God healed my soul, and that is what counts in eternity, not these lying out-of-context promises you "claim."

I would implore you, know1, to repent of this evil, condemning heresy, and be reconciled to God!

If I point out flaws in this post of yours, are you going to ignore it like you did the last two?
I just don't care to waste more of my time, simply because you can't resist some of my uneducated knowledge of scripture.

 

[wolfwint]

No, certainly not, but it wouldn't hurt for you to put your understanding of the subject on trial, so to speak, since you don't know what faith is or how it works, because it most certainly is NOT false, nor is it a lie or doctrine of devils.
As you already know, not everyone is healed, so we can rule out that fact.
The question is why or how come?
God said His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge and perish for lack of vision.
Today's average Christian fits those statements to a tee.
Let's use your prior post as one example, about not knowing the will of God and faith or believing.
One definition for faith is "confident assurance".
If you don't know what the will of God is concerning your healing or that of another, will you be able to have any confidence that God will indeed heal you or the other person?
Absolutely not. And I say that emphatically.
They are the reciprocal of each other.
To wonder, is to doubt.
To question, is to be double-minded.
To hope, is for it to be some day.
To believe though, is for the now.
To have faith, is to be, to have, or to have it taken away, NOW. ALWAYS NOW.
When are you expecting this thing to manifest? It can make the difference between having it now or someday in the future.
How long will you be willing to stand before it does? Most fall away from believing in the promises shortly after nothing happens.
What about the sins of the person afficted?
What effect does it have on the situation?
As I said before in other post. We are not automatically forgiven and/or cleansed, just because we are born again. The blood of Jesus does not cleanse the unrepentant heart?
Yes, Jesus died for all the sins His children will ever commit, but only to those who repent and confess their sins.
Another plain fact is, like you, people don't know what faith is or how it works.
Faith is a law and it works like all natural laws. Like the word or promises of God, they NEVER, EVER fail.
My wife's great great grandparents died KNOWING when they were going to die, WITHOUT EVER being sick. They died HEALTHY AND WITHOUT ANY PAIN, EVEN WITH A SMILE ON THEIR FACES WHEN THEY SAW JESUS.
Stop looking at the natural as though everything HAS TO be that way.
Keep in mind that satan is the god of this natural world, and he can make things look bleak and black.
If your faith is in the natural, then you are subject to what the natural has to offer.
God also has a world that He is God of, and all who believe will be subject to all that that world has to offer.
I don't promise anything to anyone, other than what God has already promised to those who believe.
The question is, are you going to believe the word of God or keep showing and telling me the way things are in the natural.
I have eyes too, I am not blind. I have experienced failures as much, if not more, than most, concerning healing. I just know that what is written is truth above that which we see, hear, or experience.
If you HOLD a doctrine dear to you, then gift or no gift, you will not be able to receive the truth or to know it.
If your cup is full of hardened cement, God will not be able to put anything else in there, must less replace it with something good.
If you reject something before hearing all the evidence, because you were already convinced to the contrary beforehand, how will you be able to receive what might be the truth?
You won't, because God will not force truth down your throat.
But if you seek God with an honest heart, desiring to know the truth, actually listening to both sides, if necessary, then God will be able to reveal it to you.
There are many things you don't know about the subject and yet you try to argue against what some of us are saying.
Also, as long as you continue to look at the natural, you will not be able to see what is written in the word of God, neither will you be able to accept the promises of God.
I, on the other hand, have a pretty good understanding of what faith is and how it works, but still learning.

Know1, thank you for your Input. Do you Realy believe Faith is an Law and you can Command God to do what you want, by positiv thinking and manipulative speeches. I know that our father can heal and he does. I know that he want that we trust him.He Sees our Heart and he is mercyful. He loves his Children. But if you say now that all christians which suffer because of diseases ore are handycapted and the reason for this is the lack of their faith, then is this is a false teaching. I have the same Bible as you, but I cant find a promiss for christians to a life in health and without any diseases ore physical weakness ore mental sickness. If you were right why we find such teachings not in the letters of the Nt? I know only one promiss to live in health and this i find in revelation 21,4. But this is on the new earth, not in our old one.
Of course you can believe what you want, but many are deceived through such teachings which promises Things which our father Never has promissed for our Journey on earth.

 

[Deade]

Know1, thank you for your Input. Do you Realy believe Faith is an Law and you can Command God to do what you want, by positiv thinking and manipulative speeches. I know that our father can heal and he does. I know that he want that we trust him.He Sees our Heart and he is mercyful. He loves his Children. But if you say now that all christians which suffer because of diseases ore are handycapted and the reason for this is the lack of their faith, then is this is a false teaching. I have the same Bible as you, but I cant find a promiss for christians to a life in health and without any diseases ore physical weakness ore mental sickness. If you were right why we find such teachings not in the letters of the Nt? I know only one promiss to live in health and this i find in revelation 21,4. But this is on the new earth, not in our old one.
Of course you can believe what you want, but many are deceived through such teachings which promises Things which our father Never has promissed for our Journey on earth.

Very good points you make there wolfwint. If all we Christians are supposed to healthy, some of us are missing out. I know God can heal; I have received healing from Him. So many things at my age still need healing. But when I am weak, He is strong.

Ecclesiastes 9:11: "I returned and saw under the sun that—The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all."