Jesus: Both Son and Father?
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God is a spirit.
john 4 " God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he."
Jesus is His Son, the Christ He is Flesh and blood and the spirit of God all in One. Born of mary ( flesh and blood) and Born of God ( Spirit) God the Father, is not flesh and Blood He is spirit, Jesus His Begotten Son is born of flesh and Blood Like we are, and His spirit is of God and has always been and will always be. By the Spirit God dwelt among men in the Body of Jesus, because the Holy spirit also is One with God, as the Son is.
Jesus was sent to Earth, to send to us the same Holy Spirit that Lives in Jesus, the spirit of God, and of course also the same spirit in His Son Jesus....is what the gospel is meant to give us, the spirit making us the children of God.
the Gospel is that God Loved us so Much, that He sent His Only begotten Son, to offer us eternal Life who will believe in the Only begotten Son of God. the promised Messiah. That those of us who will believe in the Son, are given the power to be the sons and daughters of God. the truth is, the gospel tells us that when we receive the Holy spirit....we also are One with God the Father, and with Jesus His Son. Father, son and Holy ghost....that Lives in us by promise of Christ Jesus the Son of the Living God.
think of it like this Jesus is the Only begotten Son of God.......and the Word of God calls us children based on that faith.
Jesus is the exact representation of God His perfect Son, Only begotten Son Looking at Jesus we see God if God was a man, but He is Not a man, Jesus is Man, full of God who is spirit One with God. when you examine further prophecies you see that " God was manifest in the flesh".......only He did this by Having a Son be born a Man. the Son of God, is an image of what cannot be seen, as we can see God by Looking at His Begotten Son who was One of Us, and offers His spirit to make us Gods children,.....
God is God, Jesus is the Lord and Christ seated at His right Hand.
Its tricky to comprehend i guess.
Coz, heres a doozy:
Which of the 3 do you think it was, that created Adam out of the dust of the earth, and that took the rib out of Adam and created Eve?
Well, heres a hint:
Colossians 1:16
16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:
Coz, heres a doozy:
Which of the 3 do you think it was, that created Adam out of the dust of the earth, and that took the rib out of Adam and created Eve?
Well, heres a hint:
Colossians 1:16
16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:
The idea is strongly alluded by non other than Jesus Himself just before ascension when He was promising the disciples a comforter. Mark Jesus' words- He says the comforter was already there with them but He (Jesus) must go for the comforter to COME in them. This means that Jesus is the comforter but must go and come in another form so that He indwells them.
He also says that He will ask the Father to send the comforter, yet in another verse He says that He will send the comforter Himself- meaning that He is the Father yet the separation is necessary to show the different authorities and at different times. In that instance, the disciples were also confused and Jesus tried even harder to explain Himself.
Here are the verses that prove this point:
John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Rev 21:7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
Here Jesus calls Himself the Father.
He also says that He will ask the Father to send the comforter, yet in another verse He says that He will send the comforter Himself- meaning that He is the Father yet the separation is necessary to show the different authorities and at different times. In that instance, the disciples were also confused and Jesus tried even harder to explain Himself.
Here are the verses that prove this point:
John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Rev 21:7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
Here Jesus calls Himself the Father.
Matthew Poole's commentary of 1 Cor. 11:3...
The head of Christ is God; and God is the Head of Christ, not in respect of his essence and Divine nature, but in respect of his office as Mediator; as the man is the head of the woman, not in respect of a different and more excellent essence and nature, (for they are both of the same nature), but in respect of office and place, as God hath set him over the woman. Nor indeed could those who deny the Divine nature of Christ, easily have brought a text more against their own assertion, than this, which rather proveth, that God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are equal in nature and essence, than different; for surely the head is not of a different, but the same nature and essence with the members. Nor doth Christ’s subjection to his Father at all argue an inequality, or difference from him in nature and essence, more than the subjection of subjects to a prince argue any such thing. The apostle then determines this to be the order which God hath set: God is the Head of Christ; Christ is the Head of his church, and every one that is a member of it; and man is the head of the woman, he to whom the woman ought to be subject. as the church is subject to Christ, and Christ is subject to his.
They are co-equals.
The head of Christ is God; and God is the Head of Christ, not in respect of his essence and Divine nature, but in respect of his office as Mediator; as the man is the head of the woman, not in respect of a different and more excellent essence and nature, (for they are both of the same nature), but in respect of office and place, as God hath set him over the woman. Nor indeed could those who deny the Divine nature of Christ, easily have brought a text more against their own assertion, than this, which rather proveth, that God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are equal in nature and essence, than different; for surely the head is not of a different, but the same nature and essence with the members. Nor doth Christ’s subjection to his Father at all argue an inequality, or difference from him in nature and essence, more than the subjection of subjects to a prince argue any such thing. The apostle then determines this to be the order which God hath set: God is the Head of Christ; Christ is the Head of his church, and every one that is a member of it; and man is the head of the woman, he to whom the woman ought to be subject. as the church is subject to Christ, and Christ is subject to his.
They are co-equals.
You don't need to dismiss it just because someone said it is wrong (even if they are Church Fathers) - you need to dismiss it because it is incompatible with an honest reading of the Bible!
You may think that some Scriptures "imply" modalism, the problem is that many many Scriptures explicitly rule out modalism...
Matt 3:16-17 explicitly opposes the doctrine of modalism (that states that the Godhead can only take one form at any one time) when it is clear and obvious that in this Scripture all three are shown to be in existence simultaneously...
There are plenty of other examples that also explicitly refute various aspects of Modalism.
You may think that some Scriptures "imply" modalism, the problem is that many many Scriptures explicitly rule out modalism...
Matt 3:16-17 explicitly opposes the doctrine of modalism (that states that the Godhead can only take one form at any one time) when it is clear and obvious that in this Scripture all three are shown to be in existence simultaneously...
There are plenty of other examples that also explicitly refute various aspects of Modalism.
ROFL, if you known Jesus Christ is the Son, then you must know who the Father is since it is written,
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:
and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:7
Since no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and no man knows who the Father is but the Son then all things must have been delivered unto you by your Father as written in Luke 4:6
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father;
and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
And in the next passage, "he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: " Luke 10:23
That is why I am glad I waited for the movie. Link
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:
and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:7
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father;
and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
And in the next passage, "he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: " Luke 10:23
That is why I am glad I waited for the movie. Link
Mat 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. 17And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”
Mark 1:10
10As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."
Look at these verses carefully. These are things that only Jesus saw and experienced, not the people around, not even John the baptist. Mat 3:16 doesn't imply the authorities of God were there at the same time in a manner that people witnessed, it is only symbolic to show the understanding they have had (Father/son/Holy spirit) since the beginning and they are timeless. Christ is the representation of fullness of God in bodily form, a dove is not and a voice is not- this was just symbolic to help the readers know the authorities of God.
Mark 1:10
10As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."
Look at these verses carefully. These are things that only Jesus saw and experienced, not the people around, not even John the baptist. Mat 3:16 doesn't imply the authorities of God were there at the same time in a manner that people witnessed, it is only symbolic to show the understanding they have had (Father/son/Holy spirit) since the beginning and they are timeless. Christ is the representation of fullness of God in bodily form, a dove is not and a voice is not- this was just symbolic to help the readers know the authorities of God.
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Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Eternal and unchanging describe God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Eternal and unchanging describe God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger