Not By Works

[LightLoveHope]

Let your light shine, For it is Jesus who is our source of life, love and hope.

There will always be those who wish to point at this false doctrine or that bad teacher,
or this denomination that is terrible.

But in truth it is one thing that matters, Do you love Jesus and follow Him?

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.
The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep.
The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."
John 10:1-5

I know above all, brothers and sisters in Christ, you listen to Him and follow Him.
You will be tested, and questioned, and given lots of false leadings and directions,
but in the end you will just listen to your Lord. So let us rejoice no matter what
these tormented, angry, frustrated people say, Jesus is Lord and His ways will prosper
because nothing can stop the righteousness and love He brings or dampen the
victory love is over sin and death, Hallelujah.

Know who is your King and the mighty work He has begun in your life which He in no
way will not bring to completion. Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

May we never forget Jim Jones and the Jone's town mass murder in Gyanna. False teachers are so deceptive the bible say's they may even deceive if possible God's elect. Come on people let the Holy Spirit sharpen your discernment abilities.

There are to many people here giving their prime time and conversations to false teachers on this thread. You know who they are so why give ear to their lies. The fact that they can deceive "if possible", God's elect shows you how deceitful they really are.

God bless and stand up for God's Truth, everybody.

Signs of the end times: Matthew24:24,25

24) "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25) See, I have told you ahead of time."

Hi TruthTalk,

Do you understand the connection you are making between a cult leader who lead
people to suicidal death and others sharing about listening to Christ and following His ways?

What has happened to you to confuse these two things?
From your testimony about your childhood it is very disturbed, so it makes me wonder if this
is where your imaginings are coming from. I hope you understand how vile, poisonous and
unbelievably abusive such an accusation is.

I cannot conceive literally how you even know Jesus and make such a comparison.
Even worse that those who have no emotional and spiritual discernment would agree with
you.

I read about the reformation, both sides would tell of the horrendous attrocities and evil
they had committed, so people should rise up in revenge and commit such horrible things
against their enemy. 25% of the population of europe died because of such bile as this.

And those who spread such hatred are filled with it, like a stream flowing from their hearts.
I have met people redeemed out of such communities, and I know it destroys generation after
generation of people, and leads to terrorist groups, and murders of innocents. So this is no
minor issue, or passing words about two groups disputing over theology. This is seriously
evil and wrong.

So there is something eating you alive, because nothing else brings this type of language up,
and you are the first I have come across to do such a thing. You really need to repent and
be free, or it will doom your soul forever.

Dear brothers and sisters is Christ, if a man cannot discern love and truth, honesty and sincerity,
caring and giving to others in Jesus, then whatever else fills their life, it is not the Holy Spirit.

 

[gb9]

Hi TruthTalk,

Do you understand the connection you are making between a cult leader who lead
people to suicidal death and others sharing about listening to Christ and following His ways?

What has happened to you to confuse these two things?
From your testimony about your childhood it is very disturbed, so it makes me wonder if this
is where your imaginings are coming from. I hope you understand how vile, poisonous and
unbelievably abusive such an accusation is.

I cannot conceive literally how you even know Jesus and make such a comparison.
Even worse that those who have no emotional and spiritual discernment would agree with
you.

I read about the reformation, both sides would tell of the horrendous attrocities and evil
they had committed, so people should rise up in revenge and commit such horrible things
against their enemy. 25% of the population of europe died because of such bile as this.

And those who spread such hatred are filled with it, like a stream flowing from their hearts.
I have met people redeemed out of such communities, and I know it destroys generation after
generation of people, and leads to terrorist groups, and murders of innocents. So this is no
minor issue, or passing words about two groups disputing over theology. This is seriously
evil and wrong.

So there is something eating you alive, because nothing else brings this type of language up,
and you are the first I have come across to do such a thing. You really need to repent and
be free, or it will doom your soul forever.

Dear brothers and sisters is Christ, if a man cannot discern love and truth, honesty and sincerity,
caring and giving to others in Jesus, then whatever else fills their life, it is not the Holy Spirit.

a part of discernment is learning and accepting definitions of words. a big part of false religion is just saying words while ignoring the meaning.

you ignore the meaning and definitions of words. how can you correctly practice discernment when you do this?

 

[LightLoveHope]

Can a soul, live alone, cut off from fellowship, love and the church, and still believe
they know Jesus and condemn others not for sin, but not believing in Jesus is the
"correct" way?

The answer is yes.
They believe the world is falling apart, the church in terminal decline, overrun by
the enemy, and they are holding out as the last stand, in their bunker in the wilderness.

And no matter how you live, if you wear the badge you are part of the tribe, so ok.
But show the signs, any sign, you might not be part of the tribe, you are evil, deceived,
lost, doomed to hell, a liar, whose goal is just to thwart the tribe.

Now if you recognize this psychology and way of being, it is just the same as any cult,
where the loyalty is to the group, and the enemy is anyone outside.

Jesus and the Kingdom is very different. There is no line, there is only the reality within
the heart of the believer of communion with Christ and how it works out to others.
Being in the world but not of it, is the Kingdoms calling.

Jesus is not a defeated war that needs defending, rather a victorious overcoming of the
passions of this world by the Holy Spirit within. Each fellowship is the plugging in to the
source of life, that brings healing, restoration of relationships, forgiveness, love, unity,
openness, caring, fellowship, community in helping one another.

Now those who have met Jesus know what I am sharing and why Jesus said, where people
love one another, that is the testimony of His presence. Amen.

So discern the spirit by which people share and their intentions, because it is through this
you know who they know.

 

[LightLoveHope]

How extreme are some people?

Racial hatred does not exist, murdering millions of people never happened.
And people who say this also claim to know Jesus.

When you know everyone can only define the world by how well their brain
works and how damaged or whole they actually are. When you look around
there are mainly walking wounded, and many not coping, on permanent medication
of depression or anxiety. So when you realize this, it is not surprising the odd
extreme things people say and hold to, because to a degree this is how they cope.

If we could see the mess that is inside many, you would wonder that society functions
at all. Praise the Lord for His blessing, and those who walk in His ways, Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1 Tim 2:15

This is a controversial verse, saying women will be saved through childbearing.
Putting that part to one side, Paul is emphasising this is only true if they continue
in the faith.

This is just another example of Paul saying, a flash in the pan faith is meaningless.

I understand why people feel when they first come to faith, this is it, it is fantastic.
Except, this fantastic experience is the first taste of full maturity, of what lies further
down the road. Those who have found very little but trouble, find it simple to say,
oh well, this is all there is, rather than, I am missing something, Lord help me experience
love, an open heart, your love and truth flowing from my heart.

What testifies to me that the heart is the issue, is when talking about the heart and
resolving issues makes one an enemy. And if one is an enemy for cleansing the inside
of the inside of the bowl, who is the father of these people who care nothing for reality
within and truth, love and honesty from the heart?

 

[ElAmor]

Already answered this 100 times in this thread..not my fault your religion does not allow you to see the truth or your ability to accept the answers already given by numerous people in this thread...Faith is what saves and justifies a man before God....not works......wake up!

The way it sounds , you do believe that even a DEAD FAITH can save you since you can no longer deny it otherwise you'll have to admit that you were wrong which i think is not in your vocabulary.

So you can call everyone else names and mock them but you do admit that your faith is dead and JUST AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

works have 0 to do with salvation..... but if there is no work being done in you, how can you claim to have a new heart? loving the world and sins more than your Father in heaven? haha.... definitely our works are nothing..... but The Holy spirit can give you assurance though his works in you

No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths

Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works

FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!

dcon been dealing with the same arguments and answering honestly but being attacked with false accusations for a loooong time


it saddens me when i see people make the strawmen and lies against any of my brothers and sisters in Christ...

then even when they are proven wrong about their false claims and lie

they continue making strawmen
blame shifting
and avoiding the actual issue at hand


truth......

 

[LightLoveHope]

But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1 Tim 2:15

If they continue in faith is the key point of contention.
Once you accept flash in the pan salvation, works or anything linked to walking
in a worthy manner of the Lord becomes irrelevant, because in the mind of the believer
it does not matter.

Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you.
Philippians 1:27-28

Do everything without complaining or arguing,
so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe
as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Philippians 2:14-16


Paul is saying we shine like stars in the universe, blameless and pure.

So to know Christ is to know walking in being blameless and pure.

But you need to work through what this actually is and what desire is and how
it is separate from sin. If one condemns oneself for passion or desire, one is saying
to be human is to be evil. If one is wise, you will understand knowing desire and
passion is part of knowing oneself and self control which is the beginning of
wisdom and the knowledge of good and evil and the choices that lie before us.

Now it is easy to dismiss all of this with a heretical, just believe statement, but that
is also the gospel of staying defiled and unclean which is the road to judgement
and failure.

It is obvious through the discussions here on cc, the narrow road is difficult to define
and understand, to work through with our varied backgrounds and experiences, but this
is why we are a body, and walking in the light is part of our walk in Christ, Amen.

 

[gb9]

But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1 Tim 2:15

If they continue in faith is the key point of contention.
Once you accept flash in the pan salvation, works or anything linked to walking
in a worthy manner of the Lord becomes irrelevant, because in the mind of the believer
it does not matter.

Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you.
Philippians 1:27-28

Do everything without complaining or arguing,
so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe
as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Philippians 2:14-16


Paul is saying we shine like stars in the universe, blameless and pure.

So to know Christ is to know walking in being blameless and pure.

But you need to work through what this actually is and what desire is and how
it is separate from sin. If one condemns oneself for passion or desire, one is saying
to be human is to be evil. If one is wise, you will understand knowing desire and
passion is part of knowing oneself and self control which is the beginning of
wisdom and the knowledge of good and evil and the choices that lie before us.

Now it is easy to dismiss all of this with a heretical, just believe statement, but that
is also the gospel of staying defiled and unclean which is the road to judgement
and failure.

It is obvious through the discussions here on cc, the narrow road is difficult to define
and understand, to work through with our varied backgrounds and experiences, but this
is why we are a body, and walking in the light is part of our walk in Christ, Amen.

blameless - innocent , guiltless, irreproachable , umimpeachable, exemplary , perfect, virtuous

pure- not mixed with anything, without unnecessary ,

 

[gb9]

blameless - innocent , guiltless, irreproachable , umimpeachable, exemplary , perfect, virtuous

pure- not mixed with anything, without unnecessary ,

does anyone walk like this , all the time, and never stumble?

this is why we need to beware of " religious " speak, that does not define the words they use.

words have definitions. if the one using the words does not take into account the definitions of the words, then the words are hollow and empty.

 

[TruthTalk]

Hi TruthTalk,

Do you understand the connection you are making between a cult leader who lead
people to suicidal death and others sharing about listening to Christ and following His ways?

Dear brothers and sisters is Christ, if a man cannot discern love and truth, honesty and sincerity,
caring and giving to others in Jesus, then whatever else fills their life, it is not the Holy Spirit.

The first thing a cult leader tries to do is tear down his cult followers, so that he can control them, isolate and dominate.

Repent and believe the Gospel

 

[LightLoveHope]

We are called to walk like this

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-25

"Love your neighbor as yourself."
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
And do this, understanding the present time.
Romans 13:9-11

The condemner will always say, look at the failure or problems you have.
Do you keep this 100% of the time? Are you perfect yet in everything?

Pauls answer to such accusations was this

I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
1 Cor 4:3-5

We are called to walk in the ways of Christ empowered by His love.
We may stumble and have issues along the way, but that is our calling in Jesus.
To deny this is to deny Jesus himself and His work in our lives.

The sad thing is those who do not know the cleansing of the Holy Spirit in their
hearts will always claim it is impossible, because truly without cleansing and knowing
Jesus it is impossible. But that is the point. Saying one finds it impossible is just
testimony as to how far one has got along the road and how open ones heart is to
love and the truth. To date I have not found open loving people have any difficulty
with Christ and His word. So the unbelievers just declare their own spiritual unbelief
and rebellion by sharing against the very word of God, Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

The first thing a cult leader tries to do is tear down his cult followers, so that he can control them, isolate and dominate.
Repent and believe the Gospel

TruthTalk,

Where is your sense? Do you hear the words of Jesus?
Open your heart, purify the heart from sinful passions, and walk in the ways of the Spirit.
Listen to Jesus and follow His commands. Ask God to anoint you in the Holy Spirit and
lead you in His truth.

This is not tearing anyone down, rather this is bringing life into our hearts and resolving
sin, hurts, evil that dwells within. And the loyalty is to Jesus and His word, not anyone
else. I have no interest in being anyones leader or preacher or have a role.

You obviously want a role in pushing others around with your accusations and confrontational
language, but without the important point, which is content. Without that you are just a
clanging symbol.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
1 Corinthians 13:1

Where is your love?

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Colossians 4:6

 

[joefizz]

And i'm glad you're here to answer my little question that needs some honest answer.

Can your DEAD FAITH save you?

Thanks in advance for your honest answer.

i'll be leaving CC to do better things but i'll be waiting for yourHONEST response.

Come on now that's a "ridiculous question" considering you are "pulling strings" making the post "in your favor" so how is dcontroversal supposed to answer your question if you already have it "set in your mind" what the answer is and just trying to "bait" him so as to "look correct"!?
A "rhetorical question" so I suppose "answer yourself" since you "don't actually want an answer from anyone else" especially dcontroversal.

 

[joefizz]

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
Galatians 1:6-8

I am assuming you are claiming I am failing to fulfill the gospel Paul is preaching.
Now I can easily say to anybody they are not preaching what Paul is teaching,
yet without actually adding the detail, it is just an empty and meaningless accusation.

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!
Gal 2:20-21

Now I believe in salvation by faith alone.
I also believe He provides the power to change us through sanctification into the
image of Christ.

Are you saying there is something wrong with this?

I might as well,since we are in "God's image" not "Jesus's" and sanctification of whatever kind doesn't make us into "Jesus's image" only after death will we resemble "angels" let alone our Saviour Jesus who hath authority over them through his Father God who entrusted him with said authority.

 

[LightLoveHope]

There is a irony here.

If one shares Gods word, and declare its meaning, pure and simple, it is hard to take.
Now if you feel as a believer everything is fine until this sharing happened what would
anyone conclude. It must be evil, or else it would mean oneself is wrong.

And if one cannot stand against such sharing, it must be a cult. Or perhaps the
opposite is true, and God is speaking again to ones heart, and action needs to be
taken. How did the pharisees feel when Jesus appeared and John started asking
people to repent and start being real? They were very upset, because they knew
their faith backwards and had it all settled. There was nothing left to work
through.

Now what I have found, in Jesus nothing is settled and everything has something
new to discover. And every time you look at something, a new truth appears.
God is great and truly the King of Kings, Amen.

 

[gb9]

We are called to walk like this

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-25

"Love your neighbor as yourself."
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
And do this, understanding the present time.
Romans 13:9-11

The condemner will always say, look at the failure or problems you have.
Do you keep this 100% of the time? Are you perfect yet in everything?

Pauls answer to such accusations was this

I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
1 Cor 4:3-5

We are called to walk in the ways of Christ empowered by His love.
We may stumble and have issues along the way, but that is our calling in Jesus.
To deny this is to deny Jesus himself and His work in our lives.

The sad thing is those who do not know the cleansing of the Holy Spirit in their
hearts will always claim it is impossible, because truly without cleansing and knowing
Jesus it is impossible. But that is the point. Saying one finds it impossible is just
testimony as to how far one has got along the road and how open ones heart is to
love and the truth. To date I have not found open loving people have any difficulty
with Christ and His word. So the unbelievers just declare their own spiritual unbelief
and rebellion by sharing against the very word of God, Amen.

we are called to walk like this. we do stumble. but, that " stumbling " is called SIN. calling it less it being in denial.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The way it sounds , you do believe that even a DEAD FAITH can save you since you can no longer deny it otherwise you'll have to admit that you were wrong which i think is not in your vocabulary.

So you can call everyone else names and mock them but you do admit that your faith is dead and JUST AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

In my journeys I've come across people who seem to believe that salvation is by grace apart from faith. They didn't actually say that, but their faith seemed to be in the new birth more so than in Christ himself to be able to obey him and walk a straight path. In other words, since they believed once and became a spiritual being, how they acted was really important because being a spirit being is forever. I actually had one guy who believed this way say that a person could believe, commit apostasy and still be saved. A mind-boggling belief when compared with the witness of scripture.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I might as well,since we are in "God's image" not "Jesus's" and sanctification of whatever kind doesn't make us into "Jesus's image" only after death will we resemble "angels" let alone our Saviour Jesus who hath authority over them through his Father God who entrusted him with said authority.

And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
Philippians 3:20-21

Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Colossians 3:9-10

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2


Now the above verses make clear, we are made to by like Jesus, to be one with

The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Cor 2:15-16

Amen