KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

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Dec 28, 2016
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I've noticed that everything you disagree with turns into figurative language. It doesn't matter what the bible actually says.
It doesn't matter what the bible actually says? Yes it does. But I also realize that not everything written is to be taken literally.

You say the day of the Lord has already happened. Paul and Peter both tell us that that day is coming in the future.

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.[1 Thess. 5:1-3]

Hmmmm, seems like Apostle Paul is saying the day of the Lord is coming, IOW, it hasn't happened yet.


But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[2 Peter 3:10]

Hmmmm...Peter said that the day of the Lord will come like a thief. So, he too, places the day of the Lord, a day you say has already came, in the future.



Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessis revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.[2 Thess. 2:1-4]

Why would Apostle Paul warn the Thessalonians about not being deceived by a teaching going around saying the day of the Lord had already occurred? If its already happened, there would be no need of warning them about the false teaching of the day of the Lord, would they?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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God did translate His words immediately into other languages in Acts 2... and I would assert confidently that such is not His normal method for translating (and further, that was not a translation of His written word). If it were His normal method, why would Wycliffe Bible Translators exist? Why would Wycliffe himself, Tyndale, Luther, and all other translators have had to work diligently at translating? Why would there still be people groups without a Bible in their own language?

I see no conflict with 2 Timothy 2:15, which is always possible because someone who does not have a Bible in their native language can learn another language in which a Bible is available.
And where would a person nowadays find the written word of truth?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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It doesn't matter what the bible actually says? Yes it does. But I also realize that not everything written is to be taken literally.

You say the day of the Lord has already happened. Paul and Peter both tell us that that day is coming in the future.

, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.[1 Thess. 5:1-3]

Hmmmm, seems like Apostle Paul is saying the day of the Lord is coming, IOW, it hasn't happened yet.


But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[2 Peter 3:10]

Hmmmm...Peter said that the day of the Lord will come like a thief. So, he too, places the day of the Lord, a day you say has already came, in the future.



Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessis revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.[2 Thess. 2:1-4]

Why would Apostle Paul warn the Thessalonians about not being deceived by a teaching going around saying the day of the Lord had already occurred? If its already happened, there would be no need of warning them about the false teaching of the day of the Lord, would they?
You do realize that AD 70 had not happened when Paul wrote that don't you?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Do you see the destruction of the temple in AD 70 as the day of the Lord?
Yes I do according to the book of Joel. And as much as I would like to continue this conversation, I have to get up very early in the morning... I'll see you tomorrow. :)
 
Apr 15, 2017
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The day of the Lord is not figuraitve, Isaiah 13 and 14 are describing the day of the Lord.
The day of the LORD is not figurative,but it is when God ends this sin business on earth.

The whole purpose of God is to create people,and give them an allotted time on earth,and take the people that love Him to dwell with Him forever,and when that allotted time is up He will end this sin business on earth,for He cannot continue to allow people to keep sinning but must one day put an end to sin.

And that is the day of the LORD,which is also known as the battle of Armageddon when God fights the world,and defeats them.

God is love and loves all people,and will not give up on the world until they give up on Him,so He is giving the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people who do not love Him to follow a kingdom that acknowledges no personal God,and when they do He will end this sin business on earth.

Satan is on a leash but soon he will be off his leash concerning the wicked,and will work among them that he could not do in the past,and deceive the wicked to rebel against God in which they will stop the preaching of the Gospel in the world,and religion is about evolution,and people can still evolve by the power of nature,as they want peace in the world.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

The day of the LORD,God fighting the world,which includes all nations as they are in rebellion against God,so they attack Jerusalem.

Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low.

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

The day of the LORD,God fighting the world to end this sin business on earth.

Eze 30:1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
Eze 30:2 Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Howl ye, Woe worth the day!
Eze 30:3 For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.

Time to put the heathen of the world down,and cause them to cease their wicked ways.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

The day of the LORD,God will fight the world.

As far as Lucifer being king Nebuchadnezzar it is not true.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

King Nebuchadnezzar did not fall from heaven,and he did not have that much power to weaken the nations,for he did not control that much back at his time.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

That is a mighty claim from a mere mortal to think he can ascend above the heights of the clouds,and be like the most high.

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

It is Satan who does not let loose the prisoners that are wicked and are lost.

Also look at king Nebuchadnezzar's belief while he was king.

Dan 1:18 Now at the end of the days that the king had said he should bring them in, then the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar.
Dan 1:19 And the king communed with them; and among them all was found none like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: therefore stood they before the king.
Dan 1:20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm.

Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
Dan 2:48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.
Dan 2:49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.

Dan 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Dan 3:29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.
Dan 3:30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in the province of Babylon.

Dan 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Dan 4:36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

King Nebuchadnezzar was not exalting himself above the God of Israel,but he proclaimed throughout his kingdom to acknowledge the God of Israel,and if anybody says anything amiss against Him shall be cut in pieces,and their house made a dunghill,for he said the God of Israel is the greatest God,and praised and honored him.

So he does not fit the pattern of Lucifer,and king Nebuchadnezzar was the greatest king,and the kingdom of Babylon flourished the most under his rule,which the Bible says they rode on eagle's wings,but his son blew it and the kingdom was stripped from Babylon,and then they were known as the kingdom of man.

The truth is when God gives the world their way for 7 years,and allows Satan to deceive all people that do not love Him,Satan will inhabit a human body,the New Age Christ,which God warns us of the new age movement that will pave the way to the rebellion against God,and the biggest prophet of that movement that wrote the most about it,Alice Bailey,interprets the Bible according to the occult and says Lucifer did not fall in to sin and disgrace,but he descended from the planet Venus to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man,and when the nations come together as one to try to achieve peace on earth then Lucifer will help them evolve through the power of nature to be greater than what they are,which the New Age Christ will be of the occult,witchcraft,spiritual evolution through nature,and does not acknowledge any personal God,but honors the God of forces,or the power of nature as his higher power.

Babylon has not fallen yet,and she represents the kingdom of man,for as soon as king Nebuchadnezzar's son blew it by not honoring the God of Israel even though he knew what his father believed the kingdom was stripped from them,and the king's son did not try to exalt himself above the God of Israel,for he believed in other gods,and praised them,where Lucifer in the future will not praise any god,and Babylon will fall in the future when Lucifer deceives the world to rebel against God by way of believing in spiritual evolution through nature,and no personal God,and when they rebel against God then He will end this sin business on earth.

Babylon has not fallen yet.

The king had a dream and Daniel interpreted it,which was a vision of a statue of a man,Babylon,Medo-Persia,Greece,and the Roman Empire,and the future ten horn kingdom,and none of those kingdoms fall until Jesus smites the feet of the statue then all those kingdoms fall.

Daniel had a dream of the same kingdoms,and said the first three kingdoms had their physical dominion taken away,but their lives were prolonged for a time and season,which means their ways are still on earth,and they do not fall until Jesus puts down the kingdom that the New Age Christ rules.

Babylon represents human religion,and the kingdom of man.

Medo-Persia represents physical cruelty.

Greece represents human wisdom.

The Roman Empire represents pushing for territory,world domination,and will branch in to ten horn,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,which all nations will come together and say Peace and safety and the rebellion will start,which the Bible says they will devour the earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and the ten horns hand their power over to the New Age Christ,and he gets control of the world.

God calls it the daughter of Babylon,and when He goes against them He will not meet them as a man,which means the first time God came to deal with people's sin problem He came as a humble man and offered salvation,but the second time He comes back to deal with people's sin problem He will come back as God and punish the world for their sins and iniquities against Him,and end this sin business on earth.

So Isaiah 14 is not about the king of Babylon of the past,but of the future,and Babylon has not fallen yet,as God allows the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ,and when they do then God can end this sin business on earth,and the new age movement looks at Lucifer as the helper of this world,and they believe he has harnessed the power of nature,and will share that power with all who follow him,but it is rebellion against God as they do not acknowledge a personal God,but it is all about people with no authority above them,which they say I am,and there is none beside me,and say they sit as a Queen,and shall never be put down,but God said they will go down for strong is the Lord that executes judgment against her.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

When the nations come together in the future as they try to establish peace on earth that is when the rebellion will start,but the saints will know it is not of God and not follow them,and God said multitudes in the valley of decision,for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision,for the world has a decision to make,stay with God,come to God,or follow the world.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: “Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?”All the kings of the nations lie in state, each in his own tomb.But you are cast out of your tomb like a rejected branch; you are covered with the slain, with those pierced by the sword, those who descend to the stones of the pit. Like a corpse trampled underfoot, you will not join them in burial, for you have destroyed your land and killed your people. Let the offspring of the wicked never be mentioned again.Prepare a place to slaughter his children for the sins of their ancestors; they are not to rise to inherit the land and cover the earth with their cities. “I will rise up against them,” declares the Lord Almighty. “I will wipe out Babylon’s name and survivors, her offspring and descendants,” declares the Lord.“I will turn her into a place for owls and into swampland; I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,” declares the Lord Almighty.The Lord Almighty has sworn, “Surely, as I have planned, so it will be, and as I have purposed, so it will happen.I will crush the Assyrian in my land; on my mountains I will trample him down. His yoke will be taken from my people, and his burden removed from their shoulders.”This is the plan determined for the whole world; this is the hand stretched out over all nations.For the Lord Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?[Isaiah 14:16-27]

After he is cut down, the ppl will look at this MAN and say, "Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble,the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?”

Lucifer is not Satan, but the king of Babylon.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Suuuuuure...

A Latin word employed that now has ppl erroneously attributing the King of Babylon as being another name for Satan, and adding 'Easter', a pagan fertility goddess that uses a bunny and an egg, to say it has always been celebrated as the Christ's resurrection. :rolleyes:

Yep, sure seems to be 100% spot on to me. :rolleyes: :confused:
Isa 14:12
2 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV


O Lucifer הֵילֵ֣ל in the Hebrew means Lightgiver or one that shines. It is the noun form of the verb הָלַך meaning shine or give light. Lightbringer is not far off the mark at all. The Hebrew Publishing Company interlinear tenach [translated by Alexander Harkavy], published for synagogue use, also uses Lucifer.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Isa 14:12
2 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV


O Lucifer הֵילֵ֣ל in the Hebrew means Lightgiver or one that shines. It is the noun form of the verb הָלַך meaning shine or give light. Lightbringer is not far off the mark at all. The Hebrew Publishing Company interlinear tenach [translated by Alexander Harkavy], published for synagogue use, also uses Lucifer.
But Lucifer is referring to king of Babylon, not Satan.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I think that is nonsense. I think that the symbolism must be understood the same way in Is 14 as in Job 38
And you are entitled to your opinion. I posted this in a response to KJV1611...


SovereignGrace said:
After he is cut down, the ppl will look at this MAN and say, "Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble,the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?”

Lucifer is not Satan, but the king of Babylon.

It makes too many references in Isaiah 14 to the king of Babylon, to a 'man', for it to be Satan.
 
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MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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And you are entitled to your opinion. I posted this in a response to KJV1611...





It makes too many references in Isaiah 14 to the king of Babylon, to a 'man', for it to be Satan.
That might hold if it were any prophet other than Isaiah.

One of the things that makes Isaiah especially difficult to interpret correctly is persistent juxtaposition of time and place.

Isaiah will frequently refer to the first and comings in the same verse.

He will begin a discourse between two people and break to a different time and place then resume his dialogue.
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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REVELATION 22 [FONT=&quot][[/FONT]19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
Works-based salvation?
 
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Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

But the king of Babylon did not fall from heaven.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Also the king of Babylon did not exalt himself above the God of Israel,or to be his equal,but he praised and honored the God of Israel.

Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

The king of Babylon said that the God of Israel is the greatest God of all the gods,giving Him praise not trying to exalt himself to be like God.

Dan 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Dan 3:29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.

The king also proclaimed throughout his kingdom to acknowledge the God of Israel,and if anybody says anything amiss against Him shall be cut in pieces and their house made a dunghill,so it does not appear that the king was exalting himself above God,or to be equal to Him.

Dan 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Dan 4:36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

The king praised and honored the God of Israel.

Babylon has not fallen yet,and Daniel said that Babylon will never have dominion again,but her life was prolonged for a time and season,which means her ways are still on earth,and she does not fall until Jesus puts her down,which God calls it the daughter of Babylon,and she was known for human religion,the occult,anything goes multiculturism,and the praise of many gods,and known as the kingdom of man.

Which that system will come about again,which America represents a Babylonian type system where she allows all religions to be practiced there,including Satanism,and the occult,and anything goes multiculturism,which on the back of the dollar,announcing the conception of a new order of the ages,and out of many,one.

All nations will eventually come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth,and they will start to rebel against God.

It is the time for God to end this sin business on earth,so He is allowing the world to have their way for a certain amount of time,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow a kingdom that acknowledges no personal God,with the Babylonian spirit,and God warns us of the new age movement which will pave the way to that kingdom,which the new age movement believes Lucifer is the helper of this world,and will cause them to evolve through the power of nature in the future.

Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Babylon,gold,Medo-Persia,silver,Greece,brass,the Roman Empire,iron,which ten toes,or horns come from them,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and none of these kingdoms fall until Jesus puts down the last kingdom.

Babylon has not fallen yet until Jesus puts down the last kingdom which does not acknowledge a personal God.

Babylon represents human religion,Medo-Persia,physical cruelty,Greece,human wisdom,and their ways are still on earth,so they do not fall until Jesus puts down the last kingdom,whose dominion is the Roman Empire.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Daniel had a vision of the same 4 beasts,and the first 3 beasts will never have physical dominion again,but their lives were prolonged for a season and time,which their ways are still on this earth,so their kingdom has not fallen yet,with the dominion being the Roman Empire,that became ten horns,with the spirit of Babylon for she represents the kingdom of man,and human religion,and the occult.

Babylon has not fallen yet,and Isaiah 14 is when she falls for good,as God puts down the world and ends this sin business on earth.

The king of Babylon did not come down from heaven,and the king acknowledged the God of Israel,and praised and honored him,not trying to exalt himself above Him,but because of her ways that were not part of God,which is the occult,then she is known as the kingdom of man which is what the future kingdom is about for it is of the occult.

America is the same way as Babylon,acknowledges the God of Israel among many people,and when the country first started,but she allows all religions to be practiced there,even Satanism,and the occult,and the blending of all ethnic groups,multiculturism,and eventually there will be a kingdom based on the occult when nations come together with the Babylonian spirit,for it is of the occult,and the time for God to end this sin business on earth.

Babylon has not fallen yet,and the new age movement that will pave the way to that Babylonian type kingdom believe Lucifer is the helper of this world.

Alice Bailey,the biggest prophet of the new age movement,and wrote the most about it,who taught an occult interpretation of the Bible,and what she says about Lucifer,lucistrust.org.

The esoteric meaning of Lucifer.

There are comments on the World Wide Web claiming that the Lucis Trust was once called the Lucifer Trust. Such was never the case. However, for a brief period of two or three years in the early 1920’s, when Alice and Foster Bailey were beginning to publish the books published under her name, they named their fledgling publishing company “Lucifer Publishing Company”. By 1925 the name was changed to Lucis Publishing Company and has remained so ever since.Both “Lucifer” and “Lucis” come from the same word root, lucis being the Latin generative case meaning of light. The Baileys' reasons for choosing the original name are not known to us, but we can only surmise that they, like the great teacher H.P. Blavatsky, for whom they had enormous respect, sought to elicit a deeper understanding of the sacrifice made by Lucifer. Alice and Foster Bailey were serious students and teachers of Theosophy, a spiritual tradition which views Lucifer as one of the solar Angels, those advanced Beings Who Theosophy says descended (thus “the fall”) from Venus to our planet eons ago to bring the principle of mind to what was then animal-man. In the theosophical perspective, the descent of these solar Angels was not a fall into sin or disgrace but rather an act of great sacrifice, as is suggested in the name “Lucifer” which means light-bearer.

The mystery of the descent or "fall" to Earth of the rebellious angels—the solar angels or agnishvattas—is said to be the mystery hinted at in the Scriptures, and "the secret of the ages" (Esoteric Psychology II, p. 93). Thus it is not surprising that there is so much confusion and misunderstanding concerning the "fallen angels" of which Lucifer is the best known representative.
The secret of the "fallen angels" is essentially the mystery which lies behind the very Plan of evolution, for the solar angels' willingness to "fall", to sacrifice themselves in order to bring the light of the principle of mind to what was then animal man, marked the coming into action of the great Law of Duality by which matter, form—negative and passive—could be quickened by spirit. This act of sacrifice at the dawn of human history is a thread woven throughout the great scriptures and mythologies of the world, including the myth of Prometheus who stole fire (mind) for man, and the biblical story of the Prodigal Son, who left the Father’s home to embark upon the path of experience in the life of form and the senses—the journey to "the far country".
The role of the solar angels and their sacrifice on behalf of humanity is discussed at length in The Secret Doctrine by H.P. Blavatsky. In fact, in 1887 the magazine of the Theosophical Society took "Lucifer" as its name in an effort to bring clarity to what it regarded as an unfairly maligned sacrificing angel.

That is what is going on they are setting up a kingdom for Lucifer which they believe he will help them to evolve to be greater than they are,giving them power over the elements,which this kingdom will have the Babylonian spirit,and is the time for God to allow the world to have their way and rebel against Him so He can end this sin business on earth,so God is allowing the New Age Christ who Satan will inhabit to deceive all people that do not love God,and when they follow the New Age Christ then God will end this sin business on earth.

Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God.

The prince of Tyrus was considered a man.

Eze 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
Eze 28:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
Eze 28:5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
Eze 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
Eze 28:7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

But God is describing the prince of Tyrus as more than a man.

ze 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Same with the king of Tyrus,God is describing him as more than a man,for he was a cherub,and was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him,and was in the garden of Eden.

For Satan used these people to rule over men,and so it is the same with the king of Babylon in Isaiah 14 that he is more than a man,but he is Satan inhabiting a man,the New Age Christ,and God is allowing him to deceive all people that does not love Him,and when they follow the New Age Christ thinking that is reality,and there is no personal God,then He will end this sin business on earth.

And then Babylon will fall.





Babylon has not fallen yet,for her ways are still on earth.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Part 5...


Belshazzar and Darius the Mede

What do you think about this, trof?? Sorry about having to make 5 posts, but it was too long to fit into one post.
Its interesting defense of Biblical record.

On the other hand, it still does not say that Israel ruled over Babylon, does it, somewhere?

Babylon was given to Cyrus, Persia was given to Alexander and Greece was given to Romans. During the roman empire, Israel was expelled from the area. So the prophecy never fullfiled, if you think its solely about Babylonian king...

Some interesting info about these events:

The Medo-Persian empire was the silver breast, with the two arms(Dan.2:32), the bear which raised itself up on one side(Dan.7:5), the ram with the two unequal horns, of which the higher grew up last(Dan.8:3,20).

The Medes and Persians were brother peoples, yet at first the Persians were under the overlordship of the Medes. But in 559B.C. the Persian prince Kurush(Kuras, Cyrus, Kores) of Ansan completely overthrew the Median king Astyages, and thenceforth the Median kingdom became Persian. The bear had, as it were, 'raised itself up' on the one side I.e., the Persian side, whil the other, the Median, lay beneath; of the two horns of the ram the one that had grown later had surpassed the other.

With powerful thrusts the Persian kingdom stormed forward, especially after the fall of Babylon(538B.C.). 'I saw how the ram pushed westward, northward, and southward'(Dan.8:4). It is significant that the east is not mentioned; for as a matter of fact the Persian kings undertook no conquests toward India. But in the other directions this insatiable empire 'devoured' land after land in succession: 'Stand up; devour much flesh'(Dan. 7:5). In the 'mouth' of the bear there were three particular 'ribs,' the Lydian(from 546B.C.), the Babylonian(from 538), and the Egyptian kingdom(from 525), and with its 127 provinces it embraced almost the whole of the then civilized world(Esther 1:1). Only against Greece were its attempts futile, and it was there that the germ of its later fall reposed(Dan. 11:2).


I recommend to read the full chapter about 4 world empires at:
https://www.worldinvisible.com/library/sauer/dawnredm/dwr3c11.htm

With the fall of semitic Babylon the prophecy of Noah was fullfiled (that Japhet will have world´s dominion).
 
Last edited:
Nov 23, 2013
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The day of the LORD is not figurative,but it is when God ends this sin business on earth.
Matt one of the easiest places to see the timing of the day of the Lord is Isaiah 14:1. The day of the Lord happened at a time when God brought Israel back into the land and then joined them with the Gentiles. That has only happened and will only happen one time.

At the time when God joined the Gentiles with Israel, Jacob being under the bondage of the law, was given mercy because Christ made an end to the old covenant.

The day of the Lord is the vengeance of the Lord on Israel, it's not the time when God ends sin on the earth. :)


Isaiah 14:1 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.